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  1. #1

    Could our rogue improve his dps?

    Hello!

    I'm posting here because none of us in guild have got enough knowledge about this class, and I think you guys are the only ones who can help us

    Here is our logs from last night's tries on Elegon http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/
    I understand that it is a fight with a lot of movement and burst, but in some tries he was doing even 20k less than some of us. Is that normal?

    He used to be always first or second in dps, but recently (not only on Elegon) he's been doing a lot less damage. He says he hasn't changed anything, so I wonder, were rogues nerfed or he's just doing something wrong?

    His armory:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Dtchy/advanced

    Any suggestions will be appreciated!

  2. #2
    Slice and dice/revealing strike uptime is low, lots of unenchanted items, and he is over hit/expertise cap by alot.

  3. #3
    His char looks like he just dinged and found some loot, get him to properly enchant/reforge and read up on some stuff
    Last edited by Tryana; 2012-11-30 at 12:38 PM.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  4. #4
    He's over hit cap, he's over expertise cap, he's gemmed wrong, he's not using rupture at all and his SnD up time is way way way too low. Gem red flat agility, blue agility+hit and yellow agility+haste. Download reforgenator, prioritize hit > expertise > haste, hit/expertise both to 7.50% only. Priority list on skills, SnD > Rupture > Eviscerate, while keeping revealing strike up. Hope this helps.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Gaelthar's Avatar
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    Oh my 9.72% expertise? And 8.72% hit? You serioud bro? the cap is both @ 7.50.... Also why gem expertise and hit 160 when you allready way passed your cap! He should really read up on guides...

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Vanthem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callmekiralol View Post
    He's over hit cap, he's over expertise cap, he's gemmed wrong, he's not using rupture at all and his SnD up time is way way way too low. Gem red flat agility, blue agility+hit and yellow agility+haste. Download reforgenator, prioritize hit > expertise > haste, hit/expertise both to 7.50% only. Priority list on skills, SnD > Rupture > Eviscerate, while keeping revealing strike up. Hope this helps.
    As Combat, you are not gemming full Agility in the reds unless you have JC with the 320 Agility.

    Red/Orange Slots Agi/Haste
    Blue Haste/Hit
    Yellow Full Haste

    Tell your Rogue he really needs to do some research because it is quite clear he has no clue what hes doing.

    http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/

    Amazing site for Gear Upgrades and Reforging, do not use the Auto Gem option either because they are wrong. As far as rotation, talents, glyphs, enchants, you can have him look up EJs and Icy Veins.
    Last edited by Vanthem; 2012-11-30 at 12:49 PM.

  7. #7
    Field Marshal stresskiller's Avatar
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    could it be someone else playing on his account that would explain the dps drop maybe ?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanthem View Post
    As Combat, you are not gemming full Agility in the reds unless you have JC with the 320 Agility.

    Red/Orange Slots Agi/Haste
    Blue Haste/Hit
    Yellow Full Haste

    Tell your Rogue he really needs to do some research because it is quite clear he has no clue what hes doing.


    Amazing site for Gear Upgrades and Reforging, do not use the Auto Gem option either because they are wrong. As far as rotation, talents, glyphs, enchants, you can have him look up EJs and Icy Veins.
    I'd love to see a source of this, his gear isn't over the point where haste outweighs agility.

    Stat
    T14 EP
    Agility 2.74
    Expertise Rating 2.43
    Yellow Hit Rating 2.40
    Haste Rating 1.50
    Mastery Rating 1.22
    Crit Rating 1.02
    White Hit Rating 1.00
    MH Expertise 1.84
    OH Expertise 0.59

    480-490 ilvl where haste = better than agility, but gemming pure haste at his ilvl is just not worth it at all, maybe in your gear or mine, but agi/haste will beat flat haste in his.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by stresskiller View Post
    could it be someone else playing on his account that would explain the dps drop maybe ?
    Nope, he's still the same person :P

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Callmekiralol View Post
    I'd love to see a source of this, his gear isn't over the point where haste outweighs agility.

    Stat
    T14 EP
    Agility 2.74
    Expertise Rating 2.43
    Yellow Hit Rating 2.40
    Haste Rating 1.50
    Mastery Rating 1.22
    Crit Rating 1.02
    White Hit Rating 1.00
    MH Expertise 1.84
    OH Expertise 0.59

    480-490 ilvl where haste = better than agility, but gemming pure haste at his ilvl is just not worth it at all, maybe in your gear or mine, but agi/haste will beat flat haste in his.
    For gemming, 2 haste for every 1 agi. Wouldn't this put haste gemming above agi gemming at his level?

  11. #11
    Lets see here, 480 item level, and the following things about his gear:

    Serious Infractions (things players in my guild would kick people out of pugs for)
    Shoulder not enchanted (200 agi, 100 crit rating)
    Cloak not enchanted (180 secondary stat)
    Chest not enchanted (80 agi, 80 str)
    Bracers not enchanted (180 agi)
    No Belt Buckle (160 agi or 320 haste)
    Doesn't know how to gem/has no gem plan (even having the wrong plan is better than having no plan, evidence - Chest, Red/Yellow gemmed with Delicate (160 agi) and Quick (320 haste), this should either be Delicate/Deft, or Deft/Quick depending on if his gear shows 1 agility or 2 haste to be more valuable)
    Over the hit cap by more than the competent reforging level (up to 435 points in secondary stats used suboptimally)
    Over the expertise cap by way more than the competent reforging level (up to 754 points in secondary stats completely lost)
    Missing Synapse Springs (average 320 agi lost)

    Less Serious Infractions (things people in my guild would grudgingly accept into pugs)
    Green Leg Enchant on a Normal Mode Epic (115 agi 65 crit)
    No Belt Tinker
    Windsong instead of Dancing Steel on Normal Mode Epics
    Mining as a profession on a raiding DPS toon (320 agi loss)
    Matching suboptimal socket bonuses (in this case expertise is fine to match if he is reforging properly but he isn't)
    Blurred Speed to Boots (not sure if this is wrong, would have to check shadowcraft for the relative weight of agility and yellow hit at his gear level to tell if 175 hit + reforging would be better than blurred speed)
    Only used buff food once in 9 pulls (25 agility lost on one pull because he used 275 food, 300 lost on the other 8 pulls)
    Did not use a flask (1000 agi lost)
    Only used potion once in 9 pulls (238 agi on average over a 7 minute pull each time one is not used)
    Did not pre-pot (238 agi on average over a 7 minute pull each time one is not used)
    Not using glyph of sprint for movement intensive fights (speculation on my part)
    Using the Tricks of the Trade Glyph and not buffing his fellow players (worth 2550 DPS if used on cooldown on your warlock who was the top DPS in that WoL)

    Estimated Missing Stats:
    3331 Agility
    80 Strength
    165 Crit
    1189 Misc Secondary stats (i.e. haste)
    plus whatever he can optimize out of fixing his gems, and the difference between Windsong x2 and Dancing Steel x2

    As mentioned his world of logs shows abysmal Slice and Dice and Revealing Strike uptime, so there are some rotational things he could probably change as well.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanthem View Post
    As Combat, you are not gemming full Agility in the reds unless you have JC with the 320 Agility.

    Red/Orange Slots Agi/Haste
    Blue Haste/Hit
    Yellow Full Haste

    Tell your Rogue he really needs to do some research because it is quite clear he has no clue what hes doing.

    http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/

    Amazing site for Gear Upgrades and Reforging, do not use the Auto Gem option either because they are wrong. As far as rotation, talents, glyphs, enchants, you can have him look up EJs and Icy Veins.
    You should use agi gems in your red slots depending on your EP values.

    Same with all of the other slots you should be gemming Agi/X until the value of haste is ½> the value of agi.

    Might be something I'm missing if so feel free to say so:

    http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/eu...p5Q65FI6rqBw==

    Also make sure that he checks his ep values once he gets new items, the value of haste for him is extremely close to the point where he should go for haste and haste/X gems.

    If he's short on gold i would advice him to atleast get dancing steel for the MH weapon.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukamok View Post
    For gemming, 2 haste for every 1 agi. Wouldn't this put haste gemming above agi gemming at his level?
    Those weights assume bis t14 gear.

    In lower ilvl gear, the relative value of agi is higher vs secondary stats.

    I'm ~490 ilvl equipped, I'm still agi gemmed. Moving to haste heavy gemming nets me about 200 more dps currently according to shadowcraft. If I was 500ilvl+, it'd be far more substantial, if I was 480-, it'd swing the other way.

    Bottom line: Stat values and weights are all relative to your gear level. Shadowcraft ain't updated for item upgrading yet, but it'll give you a good idea where you are in terms of weights and gemming.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Callmekiralol View Post
    I'd love to see a source of this, his gear isn't over the point where haste outweighs agility.

    Stat
    T14 EP
    Agility 2.74
    Expertise Rating 2.43
    Yellow Hit Rating 2.40
    Haste Rating 1.50
    Mastery Rating 1.22
    Crit Rating 1.02
    White Hit Rating 1.00
    MH Expertise 1.84
    OH Expertise 0.59

    480-490 ilvl where haste = better than agility, but gemming pure haste at his ilvl is just not worth it at all, maybe in your gear or mine, but agi/haste will beat flat haste in his.
    I might be reading your EP table wrong, but isn't 2*1.50 > 2.74?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FenrisUy View Post
    I might be reading your EP table wrong, but isn't 2*1.50 > 2.74?
    Pretty sure that it's just a copy-paste of the EJ EPs

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    Lets see here, 480 item level, and the following things about his gear:

    Serious Infractions (things players in my guild would kick people out of pugs for)
    Shoulder not enchanted (200 agi, 100 crit rating)
    Cloak not enchanted (180 secondary stat)
    Chest not enchanted (80 agi, 80 str)
    Bracers not enchanted (180 agi)
    No Belt Buckle (160 agi or 320 haste)
    Doesn't know how to gem/has no gem plan (even having the wrong plan is better than having no plan, evidence - Chest, Red/Yellow gemmed with Delicate (160 agi) and Quick (320 haste), this should either be Delicate/Deft, or Deft/Quick depending on if his gear shows 1 agility or 2 haste to be more valuable)
    Over the hit cap by more than the competent reforging level (up to 435 points in secondary stats used suboptimally)
    Over the expertise cap by way more than the competent reforging level (up to 754 points in secondary stats completely lost)
    Missing Synapse Springs (average 320 agi lost)

    Less Serious Infractions (things people in my guild would grudgingly accept into pugs)
    Green Leg Enchant on a Normal Mode Epic (115 agi 65 crit)
    No Belt Tinker
    Windsong instead of Dancing Steel on Normal Mode Epics
    Mining as a profession on a raiding DPS toon (320 agi loss)
    Matching suboptimal socket bonuses (in this case expertise is fine to match if he is reforging properly but he isn't)
    Blurred Speed to Boots (not sure if this is wrong, would have to check shadowcraft for the relative weight of agility and yellow hit at his gear level to tell if 175 hit + reforging would be better than blurred speed)
    Only used buff food once in 9 pulls (25 agility lost on one pull because he used 275 food, 300 lost on the other 8 pulls)
    Did not use a flask (1000 agi lost)
    Only used potion once in 9 pulls (238 agi on average over a 7 minute pull each time one is not used)
    Did not pre-pot (238 agi on average over a 7 minute pull each time one is not used)
    Not using glyph of sprint for movement intensive fights (speculation on my part)
    Using the Tricks of the Trade Glyph and not buffing his fellow players (worth 2550 DPS if used on cooldown on your warlock who was the top DPS in that WoL)

    Estimated Missing Stats:
    3331 Agility
    80 Strength
    165 Crit
    1189 Misc Secondary stats (i.e. haste)
    plus whatever he can optimize out of fixing his gems, and the difference between Windsong x2 and Dancing Steel x2

    As mentioned his world of logs shows abysmal Slice and Dice and Revealing Strike uptime, so there are some rotational things he could probably change as well.
    Ugh, looks like we found the source of the missing dps then! Thank you for the exhaustive comment!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntz View Post
    Those weights assume bis t14 gear.

    In lower ilvl gear, the relative value of agi is higher vs secondary stats.

    I'm ~490 ilvl equipped, I'm still agi gemmed. Moving to haste heavy gemming nets me about 200 more dps currently according to shadowcraft. If I was 500ilvl+, it'd be far more substantial, if I was 480-, it'd swing the other way.

    Bottom line: Stat values and weights are all relative to your gear level. Shadowcraft ain't updated for item upgrading yet, but it'll give you a good idea where you are in terms of weights and gemming.
    Ah my bad I thought those weights were for him. Not the T14 weights. Carry on.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlily View Post
    Ugh, looks like we found the source of the missing dps then! Thank you for the exhaustive comment!
    That touches on gear and night-wide stuff; to pick on a particular pull (last one of the night):

    No feint, means either he's trying to commit suicide or he's switching to protectors early and isn't maintaining uptime on the boss in spite of reduced rogue AoE damage taken. Has AR/SB macroed together (Good!) but uses them 4 minutes apart (3 min CD - time per finisher used, should be ~90-100s between uses before 4p). 1 Synapse springs use (should be 1/minute). AR/SB macroed to trinket, when trinket should be on CD when AR/SB are used after the first time. Sits at 5 anticipation for like 15 seconds near the end of your pull -- meaning no offensive finisher, while CP/AND anticipation capped, for 15-20 seconds (ow). 1 KS usage (should be closer to every 75s). Blade flurry on...? Lost SnD for a FULL MINUTE (should see 99%+ uptime, only downtime if it's dangerous to attack sparks in p3 and it "just so happens" to drop on the way back in, before he can reapply it immediately). Total evis usage should be a lot higher... not sure what he's doing not to get more than 15 in 4'42". Opening burst looks primarily appropriate (could be higher given the agi talisman, ~220k rather than 175ish, but that's really not as important as sustain).

    This and the gear issues mentioned above, and flask and potions.

    Edit: I might be off about the CD of Flashing Steel not lining up approximately right. Haven't had it for a while.

  19. #19
    Let's not forget that he's using blue gloves instead of the crafted 476s. He should be using haste enchant on gloves, not expertise with as way over the cap as he is.

    He's reforging INTO expertise in spite of being way over the cap. His net-reforge of hit is out of, and that's fine, but he shouldn't be reforging into hit on any slot (his fist weapon). In fact, his reforging is half-assed (to put it bluntly).
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2012-12-01 at 02:16 PM.

  20. #20
    The big problem with your rogue is that he didn't come here and ask himself.

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