Whats the deal with the need to change the name of a Christmas tree to a holiday tree

[Immitis]

Christmas was never a Christian holiday to begin with. It was the Christians who co-opted it. It's the pagans who should be offended that the Christians shit all over it lol, and both of them can get mad that commercialism shit all over that.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 02:59 PM ----------

And Athiesm is as much a religion as bald is a hair color.

the pagans probably stole it from the egyptians or something who stole it from the dinosaurs who stole it from the aliens who stole it from the oil monsters who stole it from the sontarans who stole it from the cybermen who stole it from the daleks who stole it from the kaleds who stole it from the timelords....

mmmm thievery ^-^

[Trunksee]

You misinterpert my point out of fear again... Atheism is exactly the same as religion. Taoism is a religion with no god. So is confusionism. Why do you need a higher power to call it a religion. Hense so you can hide behind the law. Thats my point i was just trying to compare the two in logical terms. Atheism is still a belief system as is any other religion. Just because its defined as the idea of not following any does not mean you can use the law to benefit yourself. If it were called a religion would you be using the same arguements. It was just a comparrison vaguely but still you do have a belief system just like any other group of people. When you get that through your thick skull and see how its repression of a belief system by another the same way history has always played itself out you will see things clearer about whye so many people have an issue with the idea of changing the name to suit your means.


Infracted.

[zeropeorth]

the tree isn't 'christian' is is Pagan in roots

According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "The use of evergreen trees, wreaths, and garlands to symbolize eternal life was a custom of the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews. Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmastime."

As far as the american X-mas, it is owned by consumerism, not religion.

If you want a symbolism, or in 'Christian' terms, Idolatry, for this time of year, you have your nativity scene. Sad part is, most Christians don't understand that MOST of their culture, comes from what they'd consider cults; pagan rituals, co-opted to help convert societies into following their way. Of course, to be oblivious of these facts is helpful to the followings, and even harder to pay attention that crucifixes, statues of mary, huge crosses ... are all forms of idolatry, that their very book strongly opposes, but people like objects to pray to and with, instead of just being good in their heart, and to each other.

I'd feel not that someone was anti-religion if they wished me happy holidays, but holiday agnostic, willing to accept and respect the individuals they meet, and know that they may not follow the same traditions they do. Happy holidays to the jewish, the christians, the muslims, the athiests, the pagans, and everyone in between; and as an aside, to hell with the corporate machine trying to take away the true meaning of the holiday, to spend time with the ones you love, and spread good cheer to all for the sake of humanity; not for the sake of profits and/or religious pretext.

[bergmann620]

This cannot happen in the US as it violates separation of church and state. Assuming a town square is public property, the state cannot acknowledge or favor one, two, or all religions. People are free to put said display on private land but it has no place on public property.

That's not wholly accurate. The constitutional statute only applies directly to laws passed by the Federal Congress. Churches, in my area, are allowed to use state property (schools) as places of worship, so long as said properties are available equally. One also needs to remember that 'Separation of Church and State' is not constitutional language, and that any current or past precedents are simply court opinion, and subject to change.

Agreed but the government has no place in promoting any religion. Religion and government should not mix whether it's the most popular one or the least. No one is required to hide their beliefs. They are just not going to be displayed as a public spectacle on public land.

There's a difference between promoting/favoring religion and allowing religion to exist. The trouble with the idea of hardcore 'separation of church and state' is that the realm of the state continues to expand.


As an aside, to the thread-at-large, my wife asked me this when I mentioned this thread to her at lunch:

"If you're so worried about offending people that you would alter your speech to say, 'Holiday Tree' or 'Happy Holidays'... How do you feel about DADT in the military? Do you think that gay people should have to keep it to themselves for fear of offending straights?"

[Majad]

A warning was given to stop discussing religion and some people kept discussing it. It's forbidden to discuss religion on MMO-Champion and going off topic is also not tolerated.

Closed.