1. #1

    Relic of Chi Ji -> Upgrades

    Hmm... upgrades!

    Question ladies. I've got 3K valors, Should i spend them on something before i lose the opportunity or should i wait? is it worth upgrading the DMC? Is the proc upgraded along with the static intellect bonus?

    I'm close to getting the sha touched mace (normal version). Also got the gem.

    Heres my armoury link:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lance/advanced

  2. #2
    Yes the proc is also upgraded. We checked last night with a guildie who upgraded theirs.

  3. #3
    I would upgrade your weapon. If you are capped you can upgrade the trinket also by 1 level so you can keep 2 upgrades for the weapon when it drops. In the end a weapon upgrade brings you more stats as the trinket upgrade.

    edit: ok didn't noticed you are heal. however I think even as a healer the weapon upgrade would give you more benefit. all stats are increased even spell power.
    Last edited by Nebria; 2012-11-30 at 02:12 PM.

  4. #4
    It's not that simple. It's more of a matter of whether it's going to be a waste of precious valor points or not. I'm planning on going as optimal as possible.

  5. #5
    remember with 3k valor u can fully upgrade 2 items, since you are capped it wud be better to spend them so u can start gathering more valor agen. SO yea id say upgrade the trinket. I think its our second / third bis anyway so it will last a long time

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Cairm's Avatar
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    Definitly do like that priest in my last LFR. Upgrade those LFR bracers twice.

  7. #7
    Blademaster
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    Well I would say upgrading the trinket will never be a waste as according to calculations over at elitist jerks its one of the best trinkets for the entire tier so spending points now wouldnt be a waste as you would potentially never change it never change it!!

    Personally for this tier im going for the DMC trinket and then Spirits of the Sun. A fully upgraded heroic Quin-xi comes out at 500 average intellect more with 50 mp5 more than the DMC but I dislike intellect proc trinkets. I am more a fan of static intellect and spirit proc trinkets too as generally speaking you always make use of the spirit proc, where as a static spirit and intellect proc trinket you risk wasting the intellect proc if it procs at a time of low damage etc (well not waste, but not make good use of)

    Sure sometimes the static spirit with intellect proc come out on top in terms of raw MP5 when you factor in MTT and average intellect, but id always question it in a real raid situation how useful they are given they can proc at totally the wrong time!

    Sepha

  8. #8
    Imo the Relic isn't woth upgrading as resto. You will replace it with Spirit of the sun at some point and I would personally use quin-xi as the second trinket because of the passive spirit.

    As for other slots: you won't be replacing the shield this tier and are quite likely sticking to using the same belt (unless you want to sidegrade into a higher ilvl spirit/haste belt later on). Also consider the garajal ring (highest ilvl crit ring).
    Last edited by Blindlad; 2012-11-30 at 02:49 PM.
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Higgs/advanced

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindlad View Post
    Imo the Relic isn't woth upgrading as resto. You will replace it with Spirit of the sun at some point and I would personally use quin-xi as the second trinket because of the passive spirit.

    As for other slots: you won't be replacing the shield this tier and are quite likely sticking to using the same belt (unless you want to sidegrade into a higher ilvl spirit/haste belt later on). Also consider the garajal ring (highest ilvl crit ring).

    Terrace trinkets have roughly double the proc bonus of DMF trinkets, but the proc rates are so low, it isn't better than the DMF ones. I got Spirit of the Sun not long ago and replaced the Relic with it. I checked the logs after a raid and my proc rate for Spirit of the Sun was about 12.5% for a whole raid night. People with relic were proccing over 25%. Add to that that there is more hard int on the relic and its obvious the relic is the better choice until they do something about the Terrace trinket procs.

    EDIT: forgot one of the most important parts, Sun has an ICD of 105 seconds, I'm not exactly sure on Relics ICD tbh but i know thats a huge factor as well.
    Last edited by Noobist; 2012-11-30 at 03:06 PM.

  10. #10
    That isn't exactly a proper way to approach trinket selection.

    Let's review a log of a priest wearing both at the same time:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/pf027...?s=7472&e=7885

    Spirits of the sun (normal): 19.3 % uptime of the proc over a 7 min fight, let's round that up to 20% and not forget that longer ICD spirit procs are relatively more useful if neither affect manatide (if you end the fight within the first half of the ICD you are gaining more of the stat than the average value). Proc is 6908, average static spirit is 1381.6
    Relic of Chi Ji: 38.7 % uptime over the same 7 min, let's round that up to 40%. 3027 proc, average static: 1210.8

    My proc uptime for trinkets during the same fight:
    Relic of Chi Ji: 43.5 %
    Qin-xi's polarizing seal (normal): 43.5 %

    I've managed to ooze out an extra proc of the relic, compared to the priest (9 compared to his 8), which puts it at 1317 avg static, still worse than a bad case scenario Spirits of the sun. Another interesting note: my trinkets overlap ideally with the same uptime and proc times.
    Proc overlap and uptime graphs for the fight:
    http://i.imgur.com/DyjgF.png

    Conclusion: Chi Ji has 5 more int but less static spirit which isn't as "bursty" when compared to normal Spirits of the sun. Upgraded normal version of spirits of the sun > relic of chi ji. Heroic Spirits of the Sun are unquestionably better than Chi Ji. Full stop.
    Last edited by Blindlad; 2012-11-30 at 04:47 PM.
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Higgs/advanced

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindlad View Post
    ....
    That's great thanks!

  12. #12
    I'd suggest upgrading your weapon (at least assuming you're not using an LFR weapon or something) even if it will be replaced, because you gain roughly 550 Spell Power on top of roughly +15 to every stat on it. In comparison, if you instead upgraded something like bracers or a cloak, you would only get +30 to each stat.

    Sure, you might end up getting a better weapon eventually and having to upgrade it wasting the VP, but when you're trying to push progression, whatever increases your statistical player power the most is what helps you the most.

  13. #13
    Currently Spirit of the Suns and Relic of Chi Ji are your two BIS trinkets to have.

    The polarizing seal is garbage and i would take the new domination point or the shado pan valor trinkets over even the heroic version of the seal. On proc int has never/will never be good for healers outside of an Ultraxion like encounter.

    Furthermore once you get into later gear levels of the tier spirit's value starts decreasing.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    Currently Spirit of the Suns and Relic of Chi Ji are your two BIS trinkets to have.

    The polarizing seal is garbage and i would take the new domination point or the shado pan valor trinkets over even the heroic version of the seal. On proc int has never/will never be good for healers outside of an Ultraxion like encounter.

    Furthermore once you get into later gear levels of the tier spirit's value starts decreasing.
    This post makes me scratch my head and fear for the future. You simply don't understand the item's strong points and just label it as bad without any testing whatsoever and are talking about replacing it by something that is well itemised, but still 2 full tiers of content lower in progression (26 ilvls). Furthermore©, you completely contradict yourself in the last sentence. Surely a trinket where the spirit can be reforged out of is better when you don't need as much?

    Let's do some Mythbusting, Qin-xi style:
    1. Along with Fruitbarrel it is the only trinket that affects manatide, giving extra mana not just to you, but for every other healer in the raid.
    2. The proc has a very high uptime, with 40% being the minimum unless you accidentally proc it before the pull. You might see that as a negative, but if that is true - you have also procced Chi Ji and have both your trinkets on CD at the start.
    3. The proc simply averages to more int than any alternative with 1438n/1624h int. Even if you completely botch things up and pick your nose for 1/4th of the duration of every proc (5 seconds), it still averages out to be 1068n/1205h int, which is still roughly on par with any trinket you suggest to replace it with.
    4. Because the spirit is passive - it can be reforged to any secondary stat you need and this is the only trinket that allows for that.
    5. Both the Scroll of the revered ancestors and Heartwarmer medallion are just plain bad. The clicky on both trinkets is worse on mana return than Price of Progress, which leaves static int as the only positive thing about them.
    6. It procs on healing done, not spells cast, unlike Chi Ji. Which means it is easier to proc once the ICD runs out because it procs of already ticking hots.
    7. Before you get Spirits of the sun (n) it synergizes incredibly well with Chi Ji - both procs are on the same ICD with the same duration and overlap, serving as an incredibly potent 45 second healing cooldown.

    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    I'd suggest upgrading your weapon (at least assuming you're not using an LFR weapon or something) even if it will be replaced, because you gain roughly 550 Spell Power on top of roughly +15 to every stat on it. In comparison, if you instead upgraded something like bracers or a cloak, you would only get +30 to each stat.

    Sure, you might end up getting a better weapon eventually and having to upgrade it wasting the VP, but when you're trying to push progression, whatever increases your statistical player power the most is what helps you the most.
    While that is definitely true, a lot of us do actually have quite bad weapons that aren't worth upgrading. Generally I would say that you don't upgrade a weapon that you can change the same raiding week, with the ideal candidates being: shekzeer n mace, emperor hc mace, protector elite dagger.
    Last edited by Blindlad; 2012-12-01 at 09:33 AM.
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Higgs/advanced

  15. #15
    ^^^^^ Wall of logic crit for 999,999 damage. Everyone elses theories hath been slain.

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