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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ztanz View Post
    Hybrid-tax is supposed to be long gone by now.
    Oh, it still exists. It's not quite so obvious anymore. If you look at Simcraft, though, you'll see the majority of classes that have healing specs ARE the lowest dps classes. It's not an accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Spriest that use rng build simply aren't gonna have consistent results. I've noticed quite a few use it as well and they wonder why the dps isn't that great. I haven't seen anything in the notes if Blizzard fixed the sw:i bugs does anyone know anything about it?
    The only thing that will fix Insanity is a redesign.

    If you're not using hymn if needed (I play 10, I think this doesn't apply to 25 to the same degree) then you're doing it wrong.
    Healers are pretty self-sufficient now. Plus, if you're channelling Hymn of Hope, you're therefore not doing much DPS, and thus are not pushing content, often with strict enrage timers.
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2012-12-02 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    Healers are pretty self-sufficient now. Plus, if you're channelling Hymn of Hope, you're therefore not doing much DPS, and thus are not pushing content, often with strict enrage timers.
    I wouldn't bring you to my raid at all.

  3. #43
    Spriests are worthless in arena after 5.1! Gets out-damaged by everything (Mage, WL, Warrior, DK...) even if you're freecasting most of the time. IF you get focust, well... you can leave the arena. Pre 5.1 our heals made up for crappy DMG. Now, you're just a mediocre DD with worthless burst damage and bad CCs.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    I beg to differ. If you can't beat yours I'd say you're the one being bad. Take a look at raidbot and compare.
    If you are beating your mages they are 100% doing it wrong. I did 112k this week on heroic Feng while one of our mages did 161k, one did 130, the othe 127k. Yup, clearly I need to play better to do that much dps.

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  5. #45
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    Healers are pretty self-sufficient now. Plus, if you're channelling Hymn of Hope, you're therefore not doing much DPS, and thus are not pushing content, often with strict enrage timers.
    I can't agree with this. Hymn of Hope is pretty clutch. 6.4 seconds every 6 minutes isn't much for 72% total mana restore + 15% increased mana for more % based mana CDs.
    {[( )]}

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    If you are beating your mages they are 100% doing it wrong. I did 112k this week on heroic Feng while one of our mages did 161k, one did 130, the othe 127k. Yup, clearly I need to play better to do that much dps.
    I've already stated we get beaten on a single target encounter, but that our utility atleast makes up for it. So no, I don't beat mages on Feng.
    I do on other fights though, and so should you.
    On top of this we don't have to compete for a raidspot with the mages and warlocks really. We compete against Moonkin/Ele cause they bring the same buff we do. Now tell me, how are you doing compared to them?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    I've already stated we get beaten on a single target encounter, but that our utility at least makes up for it. So no, I don't beat mages on Feng.
    You shouldn't beat mages on any fight. They are doing it wrong. Find me one fight where fire mages don't dominate. Do not use your logs since its very obvious your mages don't understand this game. Hundreds of top ranking logs completely make your point invalid. Now with the changes, mages are going to be much lower.

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  8. #48
    Horde of alots hits you for 300k damage.
    you die.
    "I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time Lord. I'm from the planet Gallifrey in the Constellation of Kasterborous. I'm 903 years old and I'm the man who is gonna save your lives and all 6 billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?"

    -The Doctor, Voyage of the Damned

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    I've already stated we get beaten on a single target encounter, but that our utility atleast makes up for it. So no, I don't beat mages on Feng.
    I do on other fights though, and so should you.
    On top of this we don't have to compete for a raidspot with the mages and warlocks really. We compete against Moonkin/Ele cause they bring the same buff we do. Now tell me, how are you doing compared to them?
    in my raid that kind of utility really isn't necessary and having higher dps is more likely to help us push more difficult encounters, but i can't say that will not change as we progress further.

    just recently i made the switch from aff lock to spriest, i played spriest and priest in general in vanilla/bc/wrath/cata though.
    leveled a warlock in cata, neglected it, played it at mop release onward.

    things i've noticed so far

    aff warlock has:
    a more interesting "rotation" with a higher skill ceiling (mostly due to soul shard management)
    more mobility (burning rush, portal and soulburn: portal)
    better movement dps (full dps rotation at 70% run speed, for 100% run speed fel flames is considerably better dps than spamming sw: p)
    amazing passive survivability (grimoire regen, soul leech heals, glyphed corr heals, soul link for extra hp (i have 555k hp w/ fort) )
    good active survivability, unending resolve 40% reduction, twilight bulwark 30% extra hp (gives me 750k+ hp) other options as well
    a good dps cooldown that works with our rotation
    better aoe dps (perhaps by a smaller margin now after 5.1 sear buff)
    better single target dps
    amazing execute dps and a modified rotation for execute

    shadowpriest has:
    raid healing abilities, divine star great now if stacked, VE decent raid recovery cd
    awkward random self-healing via devouring plague, sometimes useful -- often wasted.
    divine hymn
    mass dispel
    haste buff (one of the reasons i am switching to shadow)
    disc offspec (the other reason i am switching to shadow)
    dispersion
    passive 15% less damage taken
    twist of fate, any fight we can abuse this we do strong dps, should be baseline
    awkward proc smash gameplay via talents ( not enjoyable ) fdcl, di
    awkward halo talent (positioning, breaking ccs, can save to help healers at expense of dps)




    they play remarkably similar (outside of proc smash talents) but shadow priest is basically an easier to play gimp aff lock.

    and your comparison of shadow vs other spell haste specs is probably valid, but hunter may outperform on single target non gimmick fights (where dps tends to matter more)

    i'll be eager to hear what you have to say about the first 2 heroics in HOF when you get to them cham, i understand that shadow is quite good for most of the heroics in MSV. I believe on these 2 fights you may see some of the shortcomings of the class, or perhaps your raid will be able to make the most of your utility there too.

  10. #50
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Spriest that use rng build simply aren't gonna have consistent results. I've noticed quite a few use it as well and they wonder why the dps isn't that great. I haven't seen anything in the notes if Blizzard fixed the sw:i bugs does anyone know anything about it?
    It's not an RNG thing though.

    raidbots.com - only shows the top 100 parses on world of logs for each class and takes an average - that's the best spriests in the world, with the best RNG - and they're still getting blown out of the water on some fights by as much as 15k dps - particularly on single target fights. What's more, the discrepancy between top parses (the degree to which randomness affects our damage) is actually tied for second lowest of all dps specs in the game - played properly, shadow is shockingly non-random compared to the other specs.

    Having Mind Blast scale with haste would be really good, buffing Mind Flay would help some, buffing our dots (currently the weakest dps class dots) would even help - since we're also well behind all the dot cleave classes on dot cleave fights. Giving us more cast on the move wouldn't do anything because even in fights where we dont need to move (and therefore cast on the move doesnt matter) we still get wrecked - our high mobility damage isn't a huge loss to our no-mobility damage either.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-12-03 at 04:57 AM.
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  11. #51
    I'm surprised no one has suggested something like Mage armor. That way it is a stat increase and won't affect pvp as much. Like shadow form also grants 5% extra haste or crit to the player.

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  12. #52
    Stood in the Fire rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gog View Post
    I agree. Our guild spriest is starting to fall behind me and they are a better player than me. They put it down to gear scaling. I play fire mage btw.
    if a shadow priest is not beating you, than they are the worse player, fire mages got teh shaft big style, and here's the kicker IT WASN'T EVEN AS PART OF THE PATCH, it was a goddamn hotfix out of fucking nowhere, so yeah, he is the bad player.

  13. #53
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    I don't get why we needed to be changed from cata tbh, I hated orb rng sure, but I liked keeping up emp shadows, or trash taking the time to get that up and a 5 stack of AA before searing, playing really well felt rewarding as you would do great dps, now I don't know how to feel, they gutted the class.
    Try as I might I just can't keep up unless there is some way to get cheese ToF, I voiced my concern during the beta but it fell on deaf ears,I was told I was wrong shadow is fine, the new orbs are fun and as devs we don't take feedback on how a class feels to play.
    I'd switch mains but only fall back that I liked playing and know how to play is a hunter, so yeh, last and 2nd last, so I can't win, fml
    Last edited by soulyouth; 2012-12-03 at 06:41 AM.

  14. #54
    I must say that i believe that the problem some experience regarding the usefulness of a shadow priest is because of our hybrid-playstyle; no matter how much blizzard claims to having removed the hybrid tax it still remains in the terms of "you should bring a spriest because of their tools such as hymn of hope, vt and halo off-healing". While being able to bring these rather useful tools to a raid, i still feel as if they are being used as an excuse to lower my damage/dps. I don't have the need to top the meters on every, or even any, fight but i still want to be there in the role of a damage-dealer and not some kind of mix between a healer and the later.

    I shall be quick to admit that i am fine with the current state in PvE and PvP; although i am worried for our future as we tend to peak and trough a lot because of our scaling.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    if a shadow priest is not beating you, than they are the worse player, fire mages got teh shaft big style, and here's the kicker IT WASN'T EVEN AS PART OF THE PATCH, it was a goddamn hotfix out of fucking nowhere, so yeah, he is the bad player.
    Most people haven't been able to compare to a fire mage post-hotfix since they already finished raiding before the 29th.

    Calm down.
    Last edited by Aica; 2012-12-03 at 06:28 AM.
    {[( )]}

  16. #56
    Hello,
    I've been a long time spriest but based on my experience spriest doesn't to very well during the 1st expansion set. Look at the days of BT, Hyjal, etc. Spriest was doing okay when people doesnt have epic gears but when all the damage class are equally geared spriest is left behind. Maybe blizzard intends to follow this trending for spriest, during the 2nd or 3rd expansion of the set, spriest will do good damage like before.

    Now with the current state / gameplay of spriest. I feel the new skills and mechanics aren't an spriestly way. But i hope blizz makes MF useable on the move and boost its damage. I feel MF is the signature spell of an spriest not nuke spells like MS or MB. The proc triggers isn't as bad but i feel its not the way of an spriest.

    Now in terms of damage.., well hybrid brings something to the table that no pure class can offer. If blizz will balance all the class then im guessing most people will just play the hybrid as it can do it all. but i feel hybrid shouldn't be far behind the pure dps class.

    Moving forward what i hope blizz could do something like the following:
    > MF - castable on the move and increase its damage (maybe change the glyph of mindflay)
    > VE - a raid wide buff that increases the healing received by 10-15%
    > Void Shift - be a holy / disc specific talent (feels more of a healer talent than a dps one)
    > Mind Spike - not a fan.. i feel its a unnecessary skills for an spriest.
    > Mind Blast - deals X shadow damage to target and heals you for 5% of your total health. CD 6 sec.
    > SWD - is another signature talent of an spriest that needs to be buffed. (Glyph of SWD - increase swd damage by 30%. When the target is not 20% or below swd deals 50% of its damage to the caster. When the target doesn't die swd has a chance to reset is cool down by 40%, internal cd of 5sec)
    Last edited by erbs101; 2012-12-03 at 06:55 AM.

  17. #57
    My appreciation of the output we're doing has change since past ilevel 480. I was able to be top dps/total damage in MV and some lfrs until I *and others* reached 480, and quickly noticed me dropping ranks, as if the scaling of things hasn't done properly for us. I'm in a fairly softcore guild, having MV on farming status, and just downing the 1st boss in HoF (happen *tonight* actually). If some weeks ago I was on top and untouchable by the rest of my guildmates, on all the wipes + the actual kill of 1st boss, I was 3rd or 4th, and that's with 2 tanks+3 heals, so 5 dps... weak... I'm currently 485, one lock demo 487, aff 485, fury 484, fire 478, and I was able to rape fire, beat fury some times, but the 2 locks, UNTOUCHABLE! Finished 8 to 15K above me. For the record though I'd like to say I have NO tier items, while the demo and fury guys have TWO tier items (bonus!), so... eager to get lucky, Sha never drop me shit!

    I will continue to play my class/spec, but I really hope Blizz helps us a bit at some point.

  18. #58
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    if a shadow priest is not beating you, than they are the worse player, fire mages got teh shaft big style, and here's the kicker IT WASN'T EVEN AS PART OF THE PATCH, it was a goddamn hotfix out of fucking nowhere, so yeah, he is the bad player.
    Even after the fire mage nerf, fire mages are Still better than shadow single target actually. The nerf to fire was colossal, no doubt - but shadow is like the 4th lowest single target dps spec in the game right now, and the difference between the bottom 4 is like 1k dps - fire was the top spec before the nerf, its now like, middle of the pack at worst.
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  19. #59
    Thing is you get people hating on sims but the situation many people have described in this thread mirrors sims almost exactly:

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps

    Spriest is losing to the top 10 by as much as 10-15%

  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    I beg to differ. If you can't beat yours I'd say you're the one being bad. Take a look at raidbot and compare, boss by boss.
    I's already ben stated, you cna 't beat an equally skilled/geared mage,lock,hunter,dk etc etc as a priest., if you can then they doing something wrong, fullstop

    Quote Originally Posted by ultimar235 View Post
    Thing is you get people hating on sims but the situation many people have described in this thread mirrors sims almost exactly:

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps

    Spriest is losing to the top 10 by as much as 10-15%
    Most of us already know this.
    The thing is that every one us are living in a small ecosystem (raiding group) and we generally support our opinion upon the result we getting.
    So if you are in an average group and you outdps your mage and lock you have the general idea that "We are fine" but this is far from truth.

    When you wanna pull results for the spec you need the biggest sample you can get, your personal opinion based on your personal results is almost irrelevant.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2012-12-03 at 09:20 AM.

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