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  1. #21
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    To be honest I was surprised with the Czech Republic voting no. My country abstained, no surprise there. Except that most countries had a predictable vote to be honest.
    My country abstained because, apparently (according to the prime minister), the EU was divided on the issue. So what, we're joining the EU and as a member of it we'll still get to vote however we want in issues like these. I mean, the fact the EU itself was divided on this is another reason as to why we shouldn't just abstain, i.e., we have nothing to lose.

    If it weren't for this stupid logic that was used, my country would've voted yes. We're highly anti-Israel here.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 09:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Not while Hamas is in power, a move I happen to agree with.
    So you want to deprive West Bank Palestinians (who have nothing to do with terrorism) of statehood just because Hamas is operating in Gaza?

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    As I said in the other thread, this is purely a cosmetic circus. General Assembly resolutions are nonbinding, and Palestine is equally as culpable for war crimes as Israel.
    First of all, this was a mostly symbolic decision. Palestine was recognized as a state, there's nothing else to it. There's no going back.

    Second, Palestine (actually, Gaza) might be equally culpable for war crimes as Israel, but this actually gives them an opportunity to accuse Israel of such crimes. Something they couldn't do up until now.

  2. #22
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    So you want to deprive West Bank Palestinians (who have nothing to do with terrorism) of statehood just because Hamas is operating in Gaza?
    If it means Gaza remains ineligible for statehood, then yes.

    First of all, this was a mostly symbolic decision. Palestine was recognized as a state, there's nothing else to it. There's no going back.

    Second, Palestine (actually, Gaza) might be equally culpable for war crimes as Israel, but this actually gives them an opportunity to accuse Israel of such crimes. Something they couldn't do up until now.
    Exactly what do you expect this circus to change?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    To be honest I was surprised with the Czech Republic voting no. My country abstained, no surprise there. Except that most countries had a predictable vote to be honest.
    Our (Czech) leaders said they voted no because they think this is not the right way to solve the problem - Czech Republic supports direct negotiations between the two countries, not paperwork and legal fighting between them on the UN grounds.

    Which I pretty much agree with. I don't have any faith in the UN.

    Also, read this, very interesting read. It really changed my view and opinion of Israel.
    http://visegradrevue.eu/?p=581

  4. #24
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    israel vs palestine
    jews,christians vs muslims
    western world vs middle east

    I wouldn't be surprised if WW3 arised out of this issue,if maybe someday Israel is forced to divide their land by the UN and they just refuse which would leads to an all-out war.
    Here's something you didn't know!

    There are a lot of orthodox christians in Palestine. And with that, your entire argument is gone.

    And no, WW3 won't arise out of religion problems, as neither WW1 or WW2 did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Folks, this isn't a "is Israel or Palestine the 'good guy' in this fight" question.

    It's a "does Palestine deserve to be recognized as a nation unto itself" question.

    It has nothing to do with whether you agree with their policies. And Israelis are entirely hypocritical when they oppose this UN decision, while complaining when the Iranian leadership makes comments stating THEY don't recognize Israel as a nation. It's a bit difficult to complain that you aren't being given due credence as a sovereign nation, while also working to try and prevent another nation from being so recognized.
    Fully agreed with this. Israel complains all the time that some nations don't recognize them, yet they do the same to another nation whom others recognize. I always found that hypocritical form them. I think Palestine deserved this, and it will help them become better. It won't happen overnight. Or in a month, or even next year, but it will. Since now they can fight back against Israel in other ways then with rockets and suicide bombers. And of they do it right and fight with law and they actually stop the terrorists, other countries will actually join and help them with armies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    No-one but me thinks it's important that 41 nations actually chose not to vote on it? That's almost a fourth of all nations in the council. It's a bit like 10 states in the US chosing not to vote for president.

    Well, one can only hope that they will get rid of their terrorist leadership now that they might want to look better in the UN.
    I can't tell you why all abstained. I can tell you why my country did. It has strong economic ties with both Israel and USA but thinks that Palestine should be a state. So, the choices are upset the economic partners or go against what we belived in. So we abstained.

    [QUOTE=Wikiy;19278936]My country abstained because, apparently (according to the prime minister), the EU was divided on the issue. So what, we're joining the EU and as a member of it we'll still get to vote however we want in issues like these. I mean, the fact the EU itself was divided on this is another reason as to why we shouldn't just abstain, i.e., we have nothing to lose.

    If it weren't for this stupid logic that was used, my country would've voted yes. We're highly anti-Israel here./QUOTE]
    Ah, politicians, can't live with them, can't live... with them. That's some really strange logic you had there. I think everyone should have voted based on what they thought of the issue.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-01 at 01:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    Our (Czech) leaders said they voted no because they think this is not the right way to solve the problem - Czech Republic supports direct negotiations between the two countries, not paperwork and legal fighting between them on the UN grounds.

    Which I pretty much agree with. I don't have any faith in the UN.

    Also, read this, very interesting read. It really changed my view and opinion of Israel.
    http://visegradrevue.eu/?p=581
    Well that explains much on why the Czech Republic thinks as it does. Thank you for link. Was a good read.

  5. #25
    As an American, and I know this will sound negative, I don't particularly care about either of them.

    I've gotten into several arguments about Israel and seemingly have lost every single one of them. I ask why "we" should back them so heavily, only to be met with "Because their God's chosen people, and we need to protect them." Apparently, the response of, "Why the **** can't God protect his own people?" isn't a good enough response.

    I do not like being involved in race/religion wars, and I certainly do not like that my government creates so many problems for its people based on backing one side of this war. My father often jokes that the only reason the US backs Israel, even though WE didn't put them there, is because of guilt that we let so many of them die during WWII before stepping in.

    Whatever the case, I believe both sides of saturated with garbage and thus it makes it really difficult to "care" about either of them. The level of vitriol hatred there is beyond even me level of understanding.

    That all being said, I do believe that if we are going to talk about principle though, since Israel is sitting at the table then so should their opposition.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Fully agreed with this. Israel complains all the time that some nations don't recognize them, yet they do the same to another nation whom others recognize. I always found that hypocritical form them. I think Palestine deserved this, and it will help them become better. It won't happen overnight. Or in a month, or even next year, but it will. Since now they can fight back against Israel in other ways then with rockets and suicide bombers. And of they do it right and fight with law and they actually stop the terrorists, other countries will actually join and help them with armies.
    That hypocrisy isn't restricted to Isreal though, and the people they are being told to recognize won't do the same in return. And you do realize anything Palastine can due to Isreal through the UN can be done in reverse. "Isreal commited war crimes against us! Punish them!!!! Palastine commit war crimes against us! Punish them!!!!" Derp

    Both sides are being dumb and the conflict will not end until BOTH sides start recognizing each others rights and learn to actual compromise.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post
    That hypocrisy isn't restricted to Isreal though, and the people they are being told to recognize won't do the same in return. And you do realize anything Palastine can due to Isreal through the UN can be done in reverse. "Isreal commited war crimes against us! Punish them!!!! Palastine commit war crimes against us! Punish them!!!!" Derp

    Both sides are being dumb and the conflict will not end until BOTH sides start recognizing each others rights and learn to actual compromise.
    This is very true. Both of the sides are acting like small children. "QQ he destroyed my sand castle!!". Neither side has any respect whatsoever to the other one. Until that changes, nothing else will change - whatever status Palestine has in UN's files.

  8. #28
    I am feeling quite good about my country not voting. Finally a political decision I can agree with.

  9. #29
    It blows my mind that my country voted against this decision. What are you doing, my government : (

  10. #30
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    I am proud that my country voted against this measure. Also all the proponents of Palestinian statehood should realise that unless the situation changes radically, this is as far as this goes, since the US will rightly veto any pro-Palestinian initiatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    This law abiding person doesn't consider taking your guns away to be a punishment.
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    someone who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

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