New gaming rig

[Drunkenvalley]

The lightning is a very quiet card so the dc2's are and both are running cool so...

Have you ever sat besides the Lightning card? I don't find it notably more quiet than the reference. In fact, it makes a point to be really noisy during boot when it spins the fans in reverse. (To clear dust, which was a non-issue in the first place.) The DCII is fucking humongous, and I'll be hard pressed to recommend triple slot cards in general.

[Deleted]

Sjeeezes. Who cares for 1 or 2 fps? Seriously start to consider an additional 1 frame isn't a performance gain.

Dude about the noise, The Asus was clearly more silent than the EVGA. I just set my fans to 46% and my PC is like 2 meters away from me and I'm hearing it very clearly.

Have you ever been realizing a card running at 50% fan speed without a case would be less noisy'er than if you mount it in a case, measuring noise both situations from the same distance.

Maybe he doesn't want to have every 3 months a maintenance to clean the card's fan dust out and with an Asus it might be every 1 or 2 years just because of better cooling & noise.

dust filters and voila no problem at all.
tell me how does 50 euro more justify a less performing card in fps only to get it to become a tiny bit more quiet? (im just guessing you're very sensitive to sound)
might be a time to start thinking less of what you seek in a GPU as to what suits the OP better. (hell even if the card would to be loud for the OP custom fan profile solves that easy since temps got lots of headroom already)
in regards to fps, winning an equal bench is winning an equal bench be it by half a frame or a hundred winning is still what matters there.
you are just trying to create problems which aren't an issue for people in general but love to make it seem like a dealbreaker.

[Drunkenvalley]

im just guessing you're very sensitive to sound

To be perfectly honest, I'm very sensitive to sound. And I still didn't pick up any really notable noise difference between a Lightning and reference model card.

[Terahertz]

I'm honestly really, really confused right now. I'm leaning towards the EVGA 680 because sound isn't much of a problem for me because I'm always playing with my headset on. But I'm also not really fond of very hot graphics card. I had to buy a laptop cooler because my Nvidia GeForce 550 TI laptop GPU got to 80 when playing a simple game.

I'm pretty sure I'll have to dust out my desktop anyways because (hehe) I live in a dusty house, and my previous desktop (which died because of overheating) we had to fix because of all the dust in it. So I won't hesitate to clean out my newly bought desktop. >.<

When it comes to 1-2 FPS difference in performance, I don't care... I just want the best card for my current set-up demonskies recommended me (besides the graphics card). Unless someone else knows a better set-up for around the €1600 :/

[Deleted]

definition of hot varies allot.
current gpu chips can take 100 degrees, most of them run at +- 60-70 which aren't anything hot to be concerned about. (lower temps won't affect the lifetime of the card anyway in a noticeable timeline since running 70/80 degrees 24/7 should still work for 10 years if not longer.)
also a laptop has almost no cooling compared to a desktop don't worry about that. (small confined space with minimum airflow, desktop mid tower that isn't an issue with good airflow)

just repost final build once you make the final call so it is easier for overview for late thread joiners.

[Faithh]

Have you ever sat besides the Lightning card? I don't find it notably more quiet than the reference. In fact, it makes a point to be really noisy during boot when it spins the fans in reverse. (To clear dust, which was a non-issue in the first place.) The DCII is fucking humongous, and I'll be hard pressed to recommend triple slot cards in general.

I never sat with the lightning card no :P But I used the LN2 bios awhile ago for my DC2 and I haven't really noticed more noise except during the boot. Yeah okay the DC2 fans could be quieter.. Thought the lightning card was 36dba during full load (99%) but if you enable vsync you'll be around 50% gpu usage and it's obvious it would be quieter, no?

Well about 3 slot it doesn't really matter for me. The reason why I've chosen for the Asus DC2 was just because it was very high binned on the core and running very silent & cool. Default stock to 1254MHz was already amazing for me which I pushed it to 1.3GHz and 1890MHz on ram without touching volts & power.

dust filters and voila no problem at all.
tell me how does 50 euro more justify a less performing card in fps only to get it to become a tiny bit more quiet? (im just guessing you're very sensitive to sound)
might be a time to start thinking less of what you seek in a GPU as to what suits the OP better. (hell even if the card would to be loud for the OP custom fan profile solves that easy since temps got lots of headroom already)
in regards to fps, winning an equal bench is winning an equal bench be it by half a frame or a hundred winning is still what matters there.
you are just trying to create problems which aren't an issue for people in general but love to make it seem like a dealbreaker.

I'm not trying to be a dealbreaker but I'm just giving my opinions and as far as I'm aware he wants a card which runs cool and the noise doesn't matter. The EVGA just uses a lowprofile heatsink. Check the introduction page to see which card has been tested -> http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/mo...id=907&page=21

I'm honestly really, really confused right now. I'm leaning towards the EVGA 680 because sound isn't much of a problem for me because I'm always playing with my headset on. But I'm also not really fond of very hot graphics card. I had to buy a laptop cooler because my Nvidia GeForce 550 TI laptop GPU got to 80 when playing a simple game.

I'm pretty sure I'll have to dust out my desktop anyways because (hehe) I live in a dusty house, and my previous desktop (which died because of overheating) we had to fix because of all the dust in it. So I won't hesitate to clean out my newly bought desktop. >.<

When it comes to 1-2 FPS difference in performance, I don't care... I just want the best card for my current set-up demonskies recommended me (besides the graphics card). Unless someone else knows a better set-up for around the €1600 :/

According to this review the msi lightning is the best cooling card -> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-20.html

definition of hot varies allot.
current gpu chips can take 100 degrees, most of them run at +- 60-70 which aren't anything hot to be concerned about. (lower temps won't affect the lifetime of the card anyway in a noticeable timeline since running 70/80 degrees 24/7 should still work for 10 years if not longer.)
also a laptop has almost no cooling compared to a desktop don't worry about that. (small confined space with minimum airflow, desktop mid tower that isn't an issue with good airflow)

just repost final build once you make the final call so it is easier for overview for late thread joiners.

Current chips can take 100 degrees? If you're so sure about it why don't you set your manual fan to 5% speed? The previous generation 40/45nm could handle easily 80° but 28nm can handle less.

[Deleted]

only thing high temps can cause is thermal throttle -13MHz once at each thermal limit.
ofc continious 90-100 degrees temps aren't good but i don't even know of a current card(6xx series)that gets above 80 even........(unless one would put a bad manual OC on it on purpose)
iirc kepler auto shuts off when temp is still 100 degrees after downclocking and instantly at 105 degrees in order to prevent damage.
the evga double fan is just as up for the job as any other dual fan setup, it is also fun that you keep avoiding the benchmarks where the MSI/asus cards scored worse.......
both cards will run below 70 degrees which is the main thing that matters in order to not lose performance after that lower heat is a trivial point at best. (along with noise at 10/15cm distances......)
also your benchmarks are scewed with two custom cards vs stock ones in order to prove at point which isn't present in an equal card showdown.

[Drunkenvalley]

So I did a Unigen test run with my own EVGA GTX 680 for giggles. Maximum temperature was 78 degrees celsius. What does this mean?

Starting off, I do not have an intake fan. The 650D's front 200mm fan was shut down because it was making a very annoying ticky sound, and I never got around to adding a new fan for it. This means that the card is relatively starved for air, and so heats quite a bit more than it should. In anything resembling a proper system the temperatures should be noticeably lower.

Next, I haven't cleaned out the system since building it in August. So a small increase in temperature isn't that farfetched with the sort of dust quantities we've had in this house this last half year.

Moving on, even with factors above, the temperature was acceptable. TJmax on the 600 series is something like... 110c? Faithh's claim that 28nm can handle less is a piece of bull; the TJmax of a 2500k is lower than that of the 3570k. You tell me how that is consistent with lower tolerance for temperatures.

Finally, since the temperatures are within acceptable parameters even under what one could consider to be bordering on "worst case," the reference card is going to be cheaper and perform just as well as the Lightning imo. If OP wants to get the Lightning it should be for its features, not the sound or coolness.

EDIT: Looking at reviews, guru3d's review of the Lightning comes across as slightly questionable. However, if I'm to take their word, I'd personally choose the Lightning, but there is no necessity for it.

[Terahertz]

So I did a Unigen test run with my own EVGA GTX 680 for giggles. Maximum temperature was 78 degrees celsius. What does this mean?

Starting off, I do not have an intake fan. The 650D's front 200mm fan was shut down because it was making a very annoying ticky sound, and I never got around to adding a new fan for it. This means that the card is relatively starved for air, and so heats quite a bit more than it should. In anything resembling a proper system the temperatures should be noticeably lower.

Next, I haven't cleaned out the system since building it in August. So a small increase in temperature isn't that farfetched with the sort of dust quantities we've had in this house this last half year.

Moving on, even with factors above, the temperature was acceptable. TJmax on the 600 series is something like... 110c? Faithh's claim that 28nm can handle less is a piece of bull; the TJmax of a 2500k is lower than that of the 3570k. You tell me how that is consistent with lower tolerance for temperatures.

Finally, since the temperatures are within acceptable parameters even under what one could consider to be bordering on "worst case," the reference card is going to be cheaper and perform just as well as the Lightning imo. If OP wants to get the Lightning it should be for its features, not the sound or coolness.

EDIT: Looking at reviews, guru3d's review of the Lightning comes across as slightly questionable. However, if I'm to take their word, I'd personally choose the Lightning, but there is no necessity for it.

I've looked at the card before. But I don't seem to see the extra features on it? What are the features the MSI lightning has that the EVGA 680 doesn't? Also would it be possible to apply a second GPU with the MSI lightning in the future?

[Faithh]

So I did a Unigen test run with my own EVGA GTX 680 for giggles. Maximum temperature was 78 degrees celsius. What does this mean?

Starting off, I do not have an intake fan. The 650D's front 200mm fan was shut down because it was making a very annoying ticky sound, and I never got around to adding a new fan for it. This means that the card is relatively starved for air, and so heats quite a bit more than it should. In anything resembling a proper system the temperatures should be noticeably lower.

Next, I haven't cleaned out the system since building it in August. So a small increase in temperature isn't that farfetched with the sort of dust quantities we've had in this house this last half year.

Moving on, even with factors above, the temperature was acceptable. TJmax on the 600 series is something like... 110c? Faithh's claim that 28nm can handle less is a piece of bull; the TJmax of a 2500k is lower than that of the 3570k. You tell me how that is consistent with lower tolerance for temperatures.

Finally, since the temperatures are within acceptable parameters even under what one could consider to be bordering on "worst case," the reference card is going to be cheaper and perform just as well as the Lightning imo. If OP wants to get the Lightning it should be for its features, not the sound or coolness.

EDIT: Looking at reviews, guru3d's review of the Lightning comes across as slightly questionable. However, if I'm to take their word, I'd personally choose the Lightning, but there is no necessity for it.

Piece of bull? No offense but you're just being wrong. Higher voltages/higher temps will wear transistors out. A 22nm transistor is obviously smaller than a 32nm transistor which is making sense it will wear much faster out because the transistor will get shorter & shorter. Also to mention the ivy has a smaller die size, so electromignation has a bigger chance to happen on the ivy.

110° on a gpu core will just simply cause artifacts because the gpu will be making computating errors.

That the 2500K has a lower TJmax is complety bullshit.

i5 2500K 72.6° http://ark.intel.com/products/52210/...up-to-3_70-GHz
i5 3570k 67.4° http://ark.intel.com/products/65520/...up-to-3_80-GHz

Also you notice a bunch of stability between 50° & 80° tbh just to the fact that you'll have less tolerances between the 7850 & 6950 and the card would obviously will live longer.

I have to agree a card like a 4850 could handle 110° but it's 65nm. I was running it for like years on 100°+ and died after 2 years :<.

The lower the process of a cpu architecture is, the more sensitive it will become to temperatures.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 11:24 PM ----------

I've looked at the card before. But I don't seem to see the extra features on it? What are the features the MSI lightning has that the EVGA 680 doesn't? Also would it be possible to apply a second GPU with the MSI lightning in the future?

Cards really won't give any interesting future at all but rather the quality of a pcb design & vrm phases and heatsink/fan design. You can SLI the msi lightning for sure.

[Drunkenvalley]

Etc

1. 110c on a GPU core is flat out bad. Who the fuck is arguing otherwise? TJMax is a whole different story from recommended temperatures. It's like a traffic sign reading 100 MPH on a road where clearly the preferred speed is notably lower than that.

What the heck do you even mean about stability between 50 and 80c? You're literally not making sense, probably because you forgot "in-" in instability I'm sure, but if that's the case it's still complete garble.

2. The 3570k isn't more "sensitive" the way you describe it. What is going on with Ivy Bridge is that the temperature escalates stupid fast when you start putting a certain amount of voltage through.

3. You just listed the Tcase temperature for the 2500k and 3570k. Comparing that to TJmax is very much apples and oranges. The TJmax of the 2500k is 98 degrees celsius according to RealTemp, but that's because it starts to throttle at that point. Complete shutdown kicks in at 102c if I don't remember wrong. On the other hand, the Ivy Bridge chips have a TJmax of 105c according to reviews.

Now here's something I gotta make clear, Faithh: You don't wanna be near TJmax. Nowhere near. But when the TJmax of a GTX 680 is 110c, reading a temperature of 78c is a non-issue.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 11:45 PM ----------

@OP: I'd personally suggest a GTX 670 over a GTX 680. The performance difference is negligible in the first place, and being mostly the same hardware (especially with things like the 680 PCB) lets you overclock quite casually to meet the 680 or even trump it.

[DeltrusDisc]

That the 2500K has a lower TJmax is complety bullshit.

i5 2500K 72.6° http://ark.intel.com/products/52210/...up-to-3_70-GHz
i5 3570k 67.4° http://ark.intel.com/products/65520/...up-to-3_80-GHz

Sorry, but nice try quoting Intel's spec sheet and thinking no one would go look, it clearly says "TCase" not TJMax. Smooth. TCase, is the max temperature the inside of your case should ever reach, and by the time the internal case temperature has reached 72.6 Celsius, I assure you, your CPU's actual temperature would be much higher, likely shutting down. TJMax on the otherhand, is the actual max-temperature, as Drunkenvalley posted, for the CPU, at which point it will begin to throttle clocks and voltages.

To get a TCase temperature up to something like, 72.6 C for instance, is absurd, but I'll post my description of how you can achieve something so ridiculous that I posted on Facebook:

Yeah, it's basically just an overall internal temperature that no one should have. Very unlikely too, like, your case would have to have no fucking airflow at all, a few GPUs, overclocked HDD, MoBo, CPU, RAM, GPUs, network card, sound card, SSD, ODDs, everything.

Overclocked everything.

And literally, like no fans. lol.

Oh and lots of dust.

[Faithh]

1. 110c on a GPU core is flat out bad. Who the fuck is arguing otherwise? TJMax is a whole different story from recommended temperatures. It's like a traffic sign reading 100 MPH on a road where clearly the preferred speed is notably lower than that.

What the heck do you even mean about stability between 50 and 80c? You're literally not making sense, probably because you forgot "in-" in instability I'm sure, but if that's the case it's still complete garble.

2. The 3570k isn't more "sensitive" the way you describe it. What is going on with Ivy Bridge is that the temperature escalates stupid fast when you start putting a certain amount of voltage through.

3. You just listed the Tcase temperature for the 2500k and 3570k. Comparing that to TJmax is very much apples and oranges. The TJmax of the 2500k is 98 degrees celsius according to RealTemp, but that's because it starts to throttle at that point. Complete shutdown kicks in at 102c if I don't remember wrong. On the other hand, the Ivy Bridge chips have a TJmax of 105c according to reviews.

Now here's something I gotta make clear, Faithh: You don't wanna be near TJmax. Nowhere near. But when the TJmax of a GTX 680 is 110c, reading a temperature of 78c is a non-issue.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 11:45 PM ----------

@OP: I'd personally suggest a GTX 670 over a GTX 680. The performance difference is negligible in the first place, and being mostly the same hardware (especially with things like the 680 PCB) lets you overclock quite casually to meet the 680 or even trump it.

Sorry thought that Tjmax is the same as Tcase but doesn't matter.

TJmax of a 2500k is lower than that of the 3570k

You just corrected yourself? Also the gtx 580 has a tjmax of 110° so it's obvious a 28nm will handle less. A gtx 680 has a tj max of 98° -> http://geforce.com/hardware/desktop-...specifications

Still I made sense that a lower processed CPU/GPU will handle less temperatures. And TJmax you even shouldn't be bothered knowing that. Nobody would run 95° 24/7 on a 2500k while there's a max of 102° >.< Who says it's safe to run 10° below the Tjmax?

My point was being, what would happen with transistors?

100° was complety nothing for 65nm's like the HD4850. I've been running this over years and it might have been higher who knows.

A 6950 or 6970 reference will ding the 90° easily with a 99% load for example in bf3 and you'll even get fps drops etc or crashes whatever.

[Drunkenvalley]

You just corrected yourself?

Elaborate, because I don't see where you're pulling this from.

[Faithh]

Elaborate, because I don't see where you're pulling this from.

Moving on, even with factors above, the temperature was acceptable. TJmax on the 600 series is something like... 110c? Faithh's claim that 28nm can handle less is a piece of bull; the TJmax of a 2500k is lower than that of the 3570k. You tell me how that is consistent with lower tolerance for temperatures.

3. You just listed the Tcase temperature for the 2500k and 3570k. Comparing that to TJmax is very much apples and oranges. The TJmax of the 2500k is 98 degrees celsius according to RealTemp, but that's because it starts to throttle at that point. Complete shutdown kicks in at 102c if I don't remember wrong. On the other hand, the Ivy Bridge chips have a TJmax of 105c according to reviews.

Now here's something I gotta make clear, Faithh: You don't wanna be near TJmax. Nowhere near. But when the TJmax of a GTX 680 is 110c, reading a temperature of 78c is a non-issue.[/QUOTE]

[Drunkenvalley]

I don't understand where you're going with this. Are you trying to tell me a TJmax of 98/102c is higher than a TJmax of 105c now?

[Faithh]

I don't understand where you're going with this. Are you trying to tell me a TJmax of 102c is higher than a TJmax of 105c now?

Just don't mind Thought for some reason you said that the 2500K has a higher Tjmax than a 3570k in the first post lol.

[Terahertz]

Does anybody have any additional suggestions to the current build im planning to buy? Not sure really when I'm going to be able to buy the computer, but in the mean time I just want to look for the best setup for around the €1600 :P

[Deleted]

Does anybody have any additional suggestions to the current build im planning to buy? Not sure really when I'm going to be able to buy the computer, but in the mean time I just want to look for the best setup for around the €1600 :P

might giving a list of what the current to be rig would be? (since lots of feedback perhaps some things changed ?)

[Majesticii]

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