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  1. #1
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    UN upgrades Palestine's status

    This is not about why US blocked it but about Palestine's upgrade so I feel it deserved its own thread.


    http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/30/u...estine-status/


    "The UN General Assembly has decided to upgrade Palestine from an observer to non-member status.

    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was one of many overjoyed inside the Assembly gathering in New York.

    The one hundred and ninety-three member states voted overwhelmingly in favour, with a hundred and thirty-eight saying ‘yes’, forty-one abstentions and nine saying ‘no’ – the most noticeable of which came from Israel and the US.

    Speaking before the ballot, Abbas criticised Israel for the recent violence in Gaza. However, he also said: “We are not here to take away the legitimacy of a state, which has existed for decades – that is Israel. We are here to ask for legitimacy for a state which has to born the soon as possible – and that is Palestine. We are asking the world one direct question today – are we considered an extra people which has no place in the region?”

    Unlike at the Security Council, where the bid for Palestinian full membership was blocked last year, there’s no veto in the General Assembly and the two thirds majority vote needed was easily accomplished.

    Even before voting began, there were celebrations on the streets of Ramallah. Now Palestinians are more happy following a decision they imagine could bring them a step closer to an independent state. Perhaps it is fitting that the ballot that went in their favour was held on Palestinian Solidarity Day."

  2. #2
    Expected. Was more or less inevitable.

    Israel and the US opposing it against the will of the world pretty much just comes across as bullies whining to me. They have absolutely nothing to gain from the opposition, especially when it's a foregone conclusion.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    good luck palestine, clearly most of the world is now with you at last. stand tall.

  4. #4
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    I'm so happy my country voted Yay and not Nay to please big boy US
    ∞=0
    0/2 = 0 , ∞/2 = ∞
    2/0 = error , 2/∞ = error
    0*2 = 0 , ∞*2 = ∞

  5. #5
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    To be honest I was surprised with the Czech Republic voting no. My country abstained, no surprise there. Except that most countries had a predictable vote to be honest.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Good, congratulations to the Palestinians. They deserve a voice as well as an ear in the UN though, so hopefully the US and Israel will stop their ridiculous blockade of full membership for the Palestinian nation soon.
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  7. #7
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Good, congratulations to the Palestinians. They deserve a voice as well as an ear in the UN though, so hopefully the US and Israel will stop their ridiculous blockade of full membership for the Palestinian nation soon.
    Not while Hamas is in power, a move I happen to agree with.

    As I said in the other thread, this is purely a cosmetic circus. General Assembly resolutions are nonbinding, and Palestine is equally as culpable for war crimes as Israel.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
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  8. #8
    Brewmaster Cairm's Avatar
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    Must sucks for US when they can't show how good they are on a 1-vote per nation system.

  9. #9
    I'm all for it as long as it leads to peace in that region. Too much fighting over there which has led to a lot of people dying. It's gone on for too long.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Good, congratulations to the Palestinians. They deserve a voice as well as an ear in the UN though, so hopefully the US and Israel will stop their ridiculous blockade of full membership for the Palestinian nation soon.
    When Palestine is a fully-recognized country (or at least by a majority of UN nations), also a restructure of the PLO would be in order as well imo.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    and Palestine is equally as culpable for war crimes as Israel.
    Maybe, but since Palestine is on the losing side pretty much all the time they can expect the majority of the world to support them.

    They both commit warcrimes, sure. But Israel makes sure to be the biggest and most violent of the two. Palestine fires a few rockets? Israel brings in tanks to level the place. (yeah, few years back but it's still accurate)

    Also, with this upgraded status Palestine has a better chance to actually get Israel accused of warcrimes, before they could go free no matter what they did. It's still a win for Palestine, although it might not be as huge as some would like.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Not while Hamas is in power, a move I happen to agree with.

    As I said in the other thread, this is purely a cosmetic circus. General Assembly resolutions are nonbinding, and Palestine is equally as culpable for war crimes as Israel.
    It's who they support. Yes, their methods are at best questionable and barely legal but that's who the majority supports, that's pretty evident. Also, compared to recent similar events, Kosovo government is MUCH worse. Yet, they are acknowledged as an independent state. The only difference is that Palestine happens to be opposing Israel (and by that US) and Kosovo was needed for transporting Afghan heroin to EU and further (by the same parties).

  13. #13
    israel vs palestine
    jews,christians vs muslims
    western world vs middle east

    I wouldn't be surprised if WW3 arised out of this issue,if maybe someday Israel is forced to divide their land by the UN and they just refuse which would leads to an all-out war.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    israel vs palestine
    jews,christians vs muslims
    western world vs middle east

    I wouldn't be surprised if WW3 arised out of this issue,if maybe someday Israel is forced to divide their land by the UN and they just refuse which would leads to an all-out war.
    Jews and Christians vs muslims? Really now?

    No, I don't think the the Western World will start a world war over religion (especially not Europe).

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Not while Hamas is in power, a move I happen to agree with.

    As I said in the other thread, this is purely a cosmetic circus. General Assembly resolutions are nonbinding, and Palestine is equally as culpable for war crimes as Israel.
    Pretty much exactly this. Palestine has been backsliding ever since Hamas replaced Fatah. Many put the onus on Israel and the US, since they're the more capable countries, but the provacation initiated by the Hamas-led Palestine has only emboldened Israeli warhawks.

  16. #16
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Folks, this isn't a "is Israel or Palestine the 'good guy' in this fight" question.

    It's a "does Palestine deserve to be recognized as a nation unto itself" question.

    It has nothing to do with whether you agree with their policies. And Israelis are entirely hypocritical when they oppose this UN decision, while complaining when the Iranian leadership makes comments stating THEY don't recognize Israel as a nation. It's a bit difficult to complain that you aren't being given due credence as a sovereign nation, while also working to try and prevent another nation from being so recognized.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    This is not about why US blocked it but about Palestine's upgrade so I feel it deserved its own thread.


    http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/30/u...estine-status/


    "The UN General Assembly has decided to upgrade Palestine from an observer to non-member status.

    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was one of many overjoyed inside the Assembly gathering in New York.

    The one hundred and ninety-three member states voted overwhelmingly in favour, with a hundred and thirty-eight saying ‘yes’, forty-one abstentions and nine saying ‘no’ – the most noticeable of which came from Israel and the US.

    Speaking before the ballot, Abbas criticised Israel for the recent violence in Gaza. However, he also said: “We are not here to take away the legitimacy of a state, which has existed for decades – that is Israel. We are here to ask for legitimacy for a state which has to born the soon as possible – and that is Palestine. We are asking the world one direct question today – are we considered an extra people which has no place in the region?”

    Unlike at the Security Council, where the bid for Palestinian full membership was blocked last year, there’s no veto in the General Assembly and the two thirds majority vote needed was easily accomplished.

    Even before voting began, there were celebrations on the streets of Ramallah. Now Palestinians are more happy following a decision they imagine could bring them a step closer to an independent state. Perhaps it is fitting that the ballot that went in their favour was held on Palestinian Solidarity Day."
    No-one but me thinks it's important that 41 nations actually chose not to vote on it? That's almost a fourth of all nations in the council. It's a bit like 10 states in the US chosing not to vote for president.

    Well, one can only hope that they will get rid of their terrorist leadership now that they might want to look better in the UN.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    Wow. I'm not surprised that they got the yes vote. I'm surprised the US doesn't have enough political away to only get seven other countries to say no. Still, this is good news. Hopefully this leads to some kind of end to the violence...probably not soon, but every step is a good one.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Folks, this isn't a "is Israel or Palestine the 'good guy' in this fight" question.

    It's a "does Palestine deserve to be recognized as a nation unto itself" question.

    It has nothing to do with whether you agree with their policies. And Israelis are entirely hypocritical when they oppose this UN decision, while complaining when the Iranian leadership makes comments stating THEY don't recognize Israel as a nation. It's a bit difficult to complain that you aren't being given due credence as a sovereign nation, while also working to try and prevent another nation from being so recognized.
    I'm a very pro-Israel person, but I do feel that they need to become a nation. It would make diplomacy easier, so to speak. Atleast that's how I look at it. It makes palestine, the palestinians and Hamas more easily controlled so to speak, and if they want UN membership, they will conform to UN rules and laws as well, which would only play in favor of Israel.
    I'm convinced that muslim nations like Iran will -never- recognize Israel. Ever. So it doesn't really matter what they think, because they will never change their mind.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    I'm convinced that muslim nations like Iran will -never- recognize Israel. Ever. So it doesn't really matter what they think, because they will never change their mind.
    They will never recognize it they way it exists right now. You cant really get more arrogant as Israel is now. It's fairly obvious for outside perspective, it's even more glaring for middle-east countries. Israel comes in and starts to show who's boss with military power and help of the US. Noone will like that. You know, Israel is a thorn in the ass for it's neighbors just by existing, not to mention it's foreign politics. So currently the things are moving in the way of the war for existence between Israel and Arab countries. And the problem is Israel, just as much you like it or not.

    EDIT: And it's not about changing the mind or choice altogether. There is nothing to change. Iran recognizing Israel will mean that Iran is Iran no more but a puppet of someone else's power.

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