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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Taoforums View Post
    locked out for a long period of time (8, 4, 2, 1... adds up to 15 seconds if you can't trinket and are not dispelled).
    Just a note, CC DR's twice and then you become immune to it for 15-20(?) seconds. So an 8 second CC would go: 8, 4, 2, immune. A 6 second CC goes: 6, 3, 1.5, immune.

    Also, global CC would lower the skillcap and pretty much negate the entire ideas of swaps in Arena. You'd tunnel one target the entire game because if you have CC'd any of the other people, they'd be on DR for stuns which is what most swaps are made with. If the healer you are swapping too isn't stunned, they can just dispel their partners of any CC you might've put them in to swap properly.

    Heck, you might not even be able to CC the person you were on to swap because he's on DR from your Kidney/Maim/HoJ/Deep.

    It'd be a horrible change.

    Maybe putting more CCs together by duration instead of type. 8s Fear should maybe share DR with 8s Poly and Cyclone should maybe share DR with Stuns as they all last 6 seconds (mostly), but Fear shouldn't ever DR Kidney and HoJ shouldn't DR Poly. It'd just be backwards.

  2. #22
    I actually stopped playing as a healer in RBGs because I was sick of getting CCd for 20+ seconds on a regular basis. Instituting something like the resolve bar SWTOR had would be a really good idea imo. Currently in WoW 2 dps can easily lock down a healer for 15-20 seconds, and that's with pvp trinket up. It doesn't exactly take much skill to set-up a cc order.

  3. #23
    I would like to see every cc in the game have it's max duration cut in half. Leave dr's the same.

    If this was done you would have limit healer mana heavily. I have played a healer for years and I have always felt it is more fun to have to pick and choose which heal to cast and when, rather then spam the button for your biggest heal and hope you get it off in between being cc'd.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rec View Post
    This would require a massive overhaul of PvP. It would be a complete mess.
    Because that's not what the current CC fest is?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-02 at 09:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    PVP in SWTOR is probably the worst pvp in any MMO ever made. No thanks!
    The resolve system was the best thing SWTOR's PvP had. That game was trash and I regret I ever played it, but I took away the resolve system as one of the best parts of it.

    It's a better system than the OPs idea because of the scaling "value" of resolve.

    OPs system: Small duration CCs grant less total CC time before DR. Making them far less valuable than long duration (6 + 3 + 1.5 = 10.5 vs 8 + 4 + 2 = 14).

    A resolve bar would solve this by making the shorter duration CCs fill less resolve than the long duration. a proper equation makes all CCs equal value towards the total DR limit.

  5. #25
    Dreadlord Elapo's Avatar
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    nah, not all of it. I'd rather say "CC from the same player"

    That way, some classes can't control a person alone, and more teamwork is required.
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  6. #26
    then you'd also have to make heals heal about 90% less.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Elapo View Post
    nah, not all of it. I'd rather say "CC from the same player"

    That way, some classes can't control a person alone, and more teamwork is required.
    Dammit, this is what I was going to say.
    Limiting CCs per person could be interesting. It might lead to have more coordination required to setup CC chains, and limit the amount of CC that one class brings, resulting in more viable comps.

    It could be like two seperate DR chains: Major - Minor

    Major is obvious enough I guess, all stuns, fears, polys, blinds, silences. Stuns and 8 sec CC mostly.
    Minor would be roots, short-term CCs and whatever's left.

    Cyclone could be left unique for druids since it's more of a special CC.

    This way, one person wouldn't be able to lock down a target for over 70% of the time. And some classic CC combos like scatter + trap wouldn't be broken to uselessness, keeping their functionality. But after a scatter + trap, the next silence would DR with the trap. So on.

    I think this would get rid of all the problems for CC, blanket silences, instant CCs, everything, and increase the skill cap.

  8. #28
    TOR tried this and it was generally meh.

  9. #29
    the only problematic CC atm is shockwave - physical, 50k dmg, aoe, 4sec.

    the amount of CC hasnt changed DR wise, the issue is people doing too high dmg due to pvp power which was increased again with last hotfixes.

  10. #30
    Let heals have DR as well then.

  11. #31
    Brewmaster Otaka's Avatar
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    Id rather just REDUCE the number of CC in the game.

    For example, druids dont need a snare...they already have a way to escape snares themselves and faster run speed than normally. So why the fuck would they even need a snare?
    Same thing with paladins, they dont need one. And by giving them one makes this game one bit more unbalanced to the worst.

    And same thing with other new things, but it will be hard to remove them as people have gotten used to everything.

  12. #32
    I don't understand all the complaint about too much CC when in MOP the overall number has actually lessened compared to Cataclysm.

    Let's take frost mages. They used to have impact stun, CoC Freeze in addition to their current arsenal.
    As a destruction warlock, I used to have death coil AND shadowfury AND howl of terror. Now with the talent revamp I have to choose 1 of 3.
    The same goes for the other classes.

  13. #33
    But then things would be balanced. Blizzard law article 3 section 2 first paragraph states. Balance is just a druid form nothing more.

  14. #34
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Bad idea, stuns will be king and immunities/removals will be even stronger.
    Always suprise me when people come up with these ideas and dont understand the concept that some specs build up their entire dps around CC or rather control while others just rush right into combat and pop an immunity.

    Some specs got too much CC/control, it is about doing and overview not chop it to pieces across the board with DR.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 07:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    only cc changes that are needed is the massive amount of instant spam cc's that are currently in game, cc isn't a problem when you can perma cc someone with instant casts that is where the problem is.
    Remove immunities / "Break X(fear etc)" abilities and it could be considered.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-12-03 at 06:19 AM.

  15. #35
    yep currently CC is broken you can stun/fear someone till they die and they cant do anything
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Evi1Toad View Post
    It doesnt need to share a DR, there just needs to be less of it, or atleast some cost. Rogues can CC a lot, but at the cost of huge dps loss on their part, not many other classes have a down side to their control.
    Warriors were at the opposite end of this spectrum back in 4.3 and that's how it should have stayed. Other classes should have gotten the same treatment. Such as mages being true glass cannons, rogues being like they are now etc. etc. It's how PvP was SUPPOSED to work and did back in tBC and WotLK where other classes were put on teams according to what they bring to the table instead of fotm class number 2 that's better than every other class in everything.
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  17. #37
    What really needs to be done are the elimination of AoE stuns, roots and fears. There should also be NO instant ranged CC or pet CC. The only source of CC should come from the player.

    PvP in WoW is downright terrible. Even SWTOR has better pvp. At least in with the resolve system both sides know exactly what you are gonna get with your stun or CC. WoW with its stupidly mysterious and complicated CC system of DR and separate timers just doesn't cut IMO.

    I mean think about it. It is hardly an elegant system when you have some stuns on one time and for no other reason have another stun on another. Then you have different fears on separate timers as 'horror' effect which is really the same damn thing. Then you have disorients on a completely separate timer.

    But again as bad as that is nothing is worse than the AoE stuns, fears, disorients and roots. You just get to nail people through collateral CC which is pretty moronic. There is absolutely no need to have this when you already have 3-4 separate CC types on one their own separate timer.

  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    I'd love if they made DR to be based on a persons current HP pool instead of "you got CCed."

    It shouldn't exceed 50% of their current hp. Every % of their current hp you reduce is a reduction on the time of your CC. Lets say someone is at 10% hp, you deal 4%, that's (I said 40%, I am a tard, it should be closer to 80-90%) reduction on your CC, but lets say they get healed to full and you deal another 4%, that's (4% more, again wrong math) reduction total of about 84%.

    Now obviously there'd be heavier math involved, as dealing 4% damage in one ability wouldn't be effected, but lets say it was 4% total. Every % that drops because of a source of damage would increase the amount of CC reduction, instead of it just being a flat amount.

    100%, 99%, 97%, 96%.

    100k, 99k, 97k, 96k.

    50% of 100k is different from 50% of 99k, 97k, 96k, etc.

    So unless you literally do 50% in one blow, that CC is going to break sooner (damage wise, not duration).

    This idea would effect all forms of CC, including damage and healing reduction debuffs. It would essentially make CCs "consumables", as they are consumed by damage, and placed to aid in consuming hp.

    I understand that this may make certain classes too powerful, especially self-healing. To combat this, give all healing reduction abilities the Necrotic Strike treatment where it absorbs instead of reduces, but is still limited to 50% of the current targets HP. This effect can't be dispelled, only healed through, DRed through, or simply patience.

    My idea is to make CCs consumed instead of placed on targets. It's insurance for your damage.

    No it's not perfect, but it feels better than the complicated mess we deal with right now.

    *EDIT* I really gotta stop posting in the morning because I can't sleep.
    Last edited by ImpTaimer; 2012-12-03 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Wrong math!
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Revik View Post
    What really needs to be done are the elimination of AoE stuns, roots and fears. There should also be NO instant ranged CC or pet CC. The only source of CC should come from the player.

    PvP in WoW is downright terrible. Even SWTOR has better pvp. At least in with the resolve system both sides know exactly what you are gonna get with your stun or CC. WoW with its stupidly mysterious and complicated CC system of DR and separate timers just doesn't cut IMO.

    I mean think about it. It is hardly an elegant system when you have some stuns on one time and for no other reason have another stun on another. Then you have different fears on separate timers as 'horror' effect which is really the same damn thing. Then you have disorients on a completely separate timer.

    But again as bad as that is nothing is worse than the AoE stuns, fears, disorients and roots. You just get to nail people through collateral CC which is pretty moronic. There is absolutely no need to have this when you already have 3-4 separate CC types on one their own separate timer.
    ^^
    This
    There shouldn't be any source of AOE CC or Instant CC (without a penalty).
    If you alow priest to have an AOE instant fear, an Paladin to have an AOE instant blind you are just making it too easy, just pop a button and everyone in the team is CCed. This is ridiculous.
    The other thing is to allow a warrior to stun you for 4 + 3 seconds with instant casts and no downside, like a rogue, that trade DPS for stuns. Warrior instant stuns should have a downside, like reduce the own warrior damage by 20% for the duration of that stun...I don't know.
    And fear should Break more with damage, in fact, fear should break with ANY damage, or at least be very likely to break with damage.
    It's so unbalanced that priest can keep an entire team CCed with fear for 10+ seconds with his instant AOE + pet WHILE he is doing a lot of damage.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome Rec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    PvP as a whole necessitates an overhaul right now. Gotta start somewhere.
    PvP needs sweeping changes, but what do you gain by completely overhauling CC? CC classes would become instantly useless, arena would be completely broken.

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