Socialized medicine in the UK (and beyond) LCP... Death

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 04:52 AM

Welcome to the wonderful world of socialized medicine.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2DcUKj73D

This is disgusting and wrong on every level. This isn't the work of a civilized society.
Hospitals were paid in the tens of millions of pounds to meet quotas of people killed using the LCP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...al-system.html

**Gibzombie** · 2012-11-30, 04:58 AM

Socialized medicine really has nothing to do with it. Most doctors in the US get paid by insurance companies to NOT tell you about some concerns.

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Gibzombie

Socialized medicine really has nothing to do with it. Most doctors in the US get paid by insurance companies to NOT tell you about some concerns.

of course it has everything to do with it. It costs the government over there less money to have all these people on the LCP instead of giving them surgeries and treatments to live. LCP is there to save them money... socialized medicine.

As far as US doctors... i can think of a certain vaccine thread in which numerous people would tell you otherwise.

**Rakshata** · 2012-11-30, 05:07 AM

Welcome to confirmation bias everyone; place your bets on whether anyone who enters this thread will budge on their opinion based on facts given. The chances are slim so the rewards are high!

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Rakshata

Welcome to confirmation bias everyone; place your bets on whether anyone who enters this thread will budge on their opinion based on facts given. The chances are slim so the rewards are high!

seeing that i had no opinion on LCP before 1 hour ago, i'd love to have a discussion with someone who thinks it's a good thing... someone who agrees with the article.

**mvallas** · 2012-11-30, 05:10 AM

I saw links to the dailymail, and I didn't even bother clicking on them. I didn't have too... you do realize the Daily Mail is a tabloid, right? Next you'll be believing that space dragons are attacking Earth...

On an incidental note... why is universal healthcare considered a "socialist program" by people in my home of USA, and yet they don't consider Firestations, police, libraries, public schools, roadways, sewers and public sanitation as "Socialist program"?

Did people actually start getting angry and shouting "Why should I have to pay for somebody else's carelessnes around the stove!?" or "Why should I pay for somebody else to have a bodyguard because they were too stupid to walk into a dark alley alone?"

How far does this go back? Is there a caveman with a spear walking out of a forrest and sees another caveman planting crops and says "Stupid man... make family weak by not teaching family to hunt! Grow crops... make family weak! Flabby! Make family not want do nothing!"

**Deadvolcanoes** · 2012-11-30, 05:10 AM

It's about fucking time that this country has a discussion about end of life care, and the financial burden that it has on those who are still alive. 40% of medicare costs go to the patients last month?

No, but really, lets make sure we keep "severely disfigured newborns" alive as long as possible even though they have zero chance of living. That's a good use of money.

Maybe if euthanasia were a more accepted practice, we wouldn't have to starve these babies.

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes

It's about fucking time that this country has a discussion about end of life care, and the financial burden that it has on those who are still alive. 40% of medicare costs go to the patients last month?

No, but really, lets make sure we keep "severely disfigured newborns" alive as long as possible even though they have zero chance of living. That's a good use of money.

Maybe if euthanasia were a more accepted practice, we wouldn't have to starve these babies.

So if a baby isn't going to survive, the answer is to starve it to death to speed up the process?

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 12:13 AM ----------

Originally Posted by mvallas

I saw links to the dailymail, and I didn't even bother clicking on them. I didn't have too... you do realize the Daily Mail is a tabloid, right? Next you'll be believing that space dragons are attacking Earth...

On an incidental note... why is universal healthcare considered a "socialist program" by people in my home of USA, and yet they don't consider Firestations, police, libraries, public schools, roadways, sewers and public sanitation as "Socialist program"?

Did people actually start getting angry and shouting "Why should I have to pay for somebody else's carelessnes around the stove!?" or "Why should I pay for somebody else to have a bodyguard because they were too stupid to walk into a dark alley alone?"

How far does this go back? Is there a caveman with a spear walking out of a forrest and sees another caveman planting crops and says "Stupid man... make family weak by not teaching family to hunt! Grow crops... make family weak! Flabby! Make family not want do nothing!"

LCP is real whether you click on the link or not...

The Royal College of Physicians found that up to half of families were not informed of clinicians’ decision to put a relative on the pathway.

**dantian** · 2012-11-30, 05:15 AM

Dailymail is your source.

I think that's all that needs to be said, honestly.

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by mvallas

I saw links to the dailymail, and I didn't even bother clicking on them. I didn't have too... you do realize the Daily Mail is a tabloid, right? Next you'll be believing that space dragons are attacking Earth...

On an incidental note... why is universal healthcare considered a "socialist program" by people in my home of USA, and yet they don't consider Firestations, police, libraries, public schools, roadways, sewers and public sanitation as "Socialist program"?

Did people actually start getting angry and shouting "Why should I have to pay for somebody else's carelessnes around the stove!?" or "Why should I pay for somebody else to have a bodyguard because they were too stupid to walk into a dark alley alone?"

How far does this go back? Is there a caveman with a spear walking out of a forrest and sees another caveman planting crops and says "Stupid man... make family weak by not teaching family to hunt! Grow crops... make family weak! Flabby! Make family not want do nothing!"

Perhaps this link will meet your fancy?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ave-money.html

**Abysal** · 2012-11-30, 05:17 AM

No matter where you fall on the socialized health care spectrum, I think we all need a bit of perspective. We're living in a time of record life expectancy. We have some really powerful ailments now, and such things are going to be expensive to treat. We've killed off or found cheap solutions to all the things that killed people just a few centuries ago.

We get so emotional about the health care issue on both ends of the spectrum, but lost in all that is just how blessed we are. Human mortality rates are at historical lows. In our zealousness, I hope we don't make rash choices that get in the way of further improving the human condition. Reflect on what it took to get us here and make sure the choices we make allow us to continue doing the things that got as this far.

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by dantian

Dailymail is your source.

I think that's all that needs to be said, honestly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ave-money.html
does that meet your fancy?

**Alakir the Windlord** · 2012-11-30, 05:19 AM

The LCP programme makes sure that they are confortable until they die, so they do not feel any pain, nausea, etc.

**Deadvolcanoes** · 2012-11-30, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sealed Shut

So if a baby isn't going to survive, the answer is to starve it to death to speed up the process?

Actually the answer is euthanasia, as I stated.

But if that is not possible, then yes, remove feeding tubes.

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes

Actually the answer is euthanasia, as I stated.

But if that is not possible, then yes, remove feeding tubes.

i'm not verbed on the uk health system, which is why i've started this thread. Is not removing feeding tubes euthanasia?

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 12:23 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Alakir the Windlord

The LCP programme makes sure that they are confortable until they die, so they do not feel any pain, nausea, etc.

not quite sure what starving to death or dying of thirst feels like. if the UK has accepted 'assisted suicide', can't you just give them a shot? hell, criminals with death penalties have it easier.

**Reganom** · 2012-11-30, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by Sealed Shut

i'm not verbed on the uk health system, which is why i've started this thread. Is not removing feeding tubes euthanasia?

Legally? No. Technically? Depends on your views.

I'm fairly sure that in the UK patients can also be put into a medically induced coma untill they pass. However it's still not classified as euthanasia.

It also appears that you've primarily started this thread to vilify socialised medicine.

**Alakir the Windlord** · 2012-11-30, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Sealed Shut

not quite sure what starving to death or dying of thirst feels like. if the UK has accepted 'assisted suicide', can't you just give them a shot? hell, criminals with death penalties have it easier.

They probably keep them sedated so they can't feel anything or complain.

**Deadvolcanoes** · 2012-11-30, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Sealed Shut

i'm not verbed on the uk health system, which is why i've started this thread. Is not removing feeding tubes euthanasia?

Anything that involves pain is not euthanasia.

They type of euthanasia I am referencing would be the same assisted suicide. It cheap, painless, and quick.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 12:29 AM ----------

But if we want to be honest with our health care system, we have to address end of life care. Whether its NHS, or a privatized insurance policy, there is a limited amount of money in the healthcare pool. The more money that gets used on keeping severely disfigured babies alive, the less we have for things like cancer prevention etc.

**Sealed Shut** · 2012-11-30, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Reganom

Legally? No. Technically? Depends on your views.

I'm fairly sure that in the UK patients can also be put into a medically induced coma untill they pass. However it's still not classified as euthanasia.

It also appears that you've primarily started this thread to vilify socialised medicine.

When it's being used to save money as is stated, that would seem like a very negative effect stemming from the government control and effort to curb costs.
Dr Gillian Craig, a retired geriatrician and former vice-chairman of the Medical Ethics Alliance said, “If you are cynical about it, as I am, you can see it as a cost-cutting measure, if you don’t want your beds to be filled with old people,” She advised that those who did not want to be put on the pathway should carry cards.
The numbers being put on the pathway had doubled in just two years, with tens of thousands of patients now involved. But up to half of families are not being informed of clinicians’ decision to put a relative on the pathway.

This isn't info from the dailymail either.

**Istaril** · 2012-11-30, 05:31 AM

Sealed. The Daily Mail is NOT a news source. It's a tabloid pay their preys on the fears of the elderly and the stupid, spouting ignorant bollocks of the worst kind.

It'd be HIGHLY suspicious of anything they post unless you can find another news source to back up their information. I want to reiterate that again. The Daily Mail is absolute garbage, their writing makes even the Sun look good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9dqNTTdYKY

Above link to highlight what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Sealed Shut

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ave-money.html
does that meet your fancy?

An opinion piece from the Telegraph isn't much better I'm afraid. Especially when they fail to actually back up their sources.

Thread: Socialized medicine in the UK (and beyond) LCP... Death

Thread Tools

Socialized medicine in the UK (and beyond) LCP... Death

Posting Permissions