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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    A potential solution to the Sylvanas issue

    Alright so after the last thread I got thinking

    1. After Garrosh is gone the Horde's going to be pretty focused on cleaning house and running a tighter ship to keep things like what he did from happening.

    2. It'd be really difficult to bring Sylvanas and the Forsaken into peaceable cohabitation in the Eastern Kingdoms with the Alliance, particularly after killing Greymane's son, and Varians peek at Undercity in Wotlk.

    3. When Sylvanas attempted (successfully, temporarily) suicide in her short story, she was in a really nasty shadow realm that seemed vaguely old-god-ish until the Val'kyr plucked her out of it.

    4. Sylvanas is central enough to the Forsaken and popular enough with the playerbase to be difficult to outright 'kill off' even if her comeuppance would make sense.

    5. The old gods, particularly yoggy and his puzzlebox, have a few things to say about death, here's just a few.


    There is no escape. Not in this life, not in the next.

    All places, all things have souls. All souls can be devoured.

    The void sucks at your soul. It is content to feast slowly.

    Yogg-Saron says: A thousand deaths... or one murder.
    -Lane/Garona vision stuff-
    Yogg-Saron says: Your petty quarrels only make me stronger!
    So I got to thinking, what if the 'hell' that Sylvanas went to is a byproduct of the Old Gods, and there's no grand cosmic balance scale that decides who goes where, so much as people not tied to any other powers are 'fair game' for Old Gods when they die? If you have a deity or tie to another force like the Light, Loa, Elune or elemental and nature spirits, then they effectively keep you 'anchored' or protected from going to Old-god-hell.

    Now, if Sylvanas were to die at the hands of Greymane, or pretty much anyone after she runs out of Greater Val'kyr, she'd end up back in that hellish shadowrealm... but would she necessarily be powerless there?

    Could she potentially ascend to a sort of pseudo godhood where, even while trapped and suffering, she can function as a sort of deity for the Forsaken, slowly growing strong enough to escape?


    I think it'd be pretty cool, and in her absence a more subtle government could control the forsaken, leaving them no less the token 'dark' members of the Horde, but no longer as set on expanding down into Stromgarde and the like.

    Plus this would make it easier for them to work up rituals, or magic to replace the Val'kyr when they eventually run out. (Or if neither of those work, they can go full Frankenstein)


    And it'd give the Forsaken a reason to go after the Old gods, weaken them and help Sylvie get free.


    Sylvanas is being 'punished' for murdering people at Southshore and allowing horrific experimentation in her pursuit of going after Arthas, yet she's still a part of the Storyline and the game rather than being 'dead dead'.


    Hardly a perfect solution but I'm fond of it.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    If Sylvanas is ever killed off, I'd quit. I'd like for her to be a bigger part of Horde leadership, and frankly I'm bored with hippy "let's all be happy and peaceful!" sense of feeling between some major horde and alliance figures.

  3. #3
    You're making a "solution" from an Alliance view. While I am Alliance what about the Horde? Maybe they do not see her as a problem.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral sscavenger's Avatar
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    That shadowy realm, is their version of Hell.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You're making a "solution" from an Alliance view. While I am Alliance what about the Horde? Maybe they do not see her as a problem.
    Thats what it felt like to me, a way to appease the alliance fanbase. They probably don't, she hasn't done anything bad to the horde like how Garrosh is doing. I don't see why people are so hung up on southshore I get that the way she dealt with it was kinda crazy and overboard, but lets image what would happen if the horde had a port town in westfall do you think Varian would have sacked the town by now? And besides I thought that the next warchief will solve this problem by bringing some kind of punishment to the forsaken.
    Last edited by Darkenedfist; 2013-02-01 at 06:32 AM.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You're making a "solution" from an Alliance view. While I am Alliance what about the Horde? Maybe they do not see her as a problem.
    I'm Horde, I'm just keeping in mind that the Horde's never really been onboard with a lot of what Sylvanas does, Drek'thar's rant for example.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  7. #7
    I don't understand the need for a "solution" to the Sylvanas "issue".
    If there's one thing World of Warcraft players hate more than people who don't play, it's people that do play but not as much as them.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I'm Horde, I'm just keeping in mind that the Horde's never really been onboard with a lot of what Sylvanas does, Drek'thar's rant for example.
    The horde was never really on board with the forsaken's tactics as they consider them unhonorable.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenedfist View Post
    Thats what it felt like to me, a way to appease the alliance fanbase. They probably don't, she hasn't done anything bad to the horde like how Garrosh is doing. I don't see why people are so hung up on southshore I get that the way she dealt with it was kinda crazy and overboard, but lets image what would happen if the horde had a port town in westfall do you think Varian would have sacked the town by now?
    1. I know they dropped the plotlines but for a long while it was pretty obvious they were doing SOMETHING

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Infiltrator_Marksen

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Apothecary_Cylla

    Plus they keep digging the Horde deeper down this diplomatic hole, like when they murdered all those druids in their sleep in the barrow dens in Ashenvale.

    2. Not really a viable comparison since Southshore wasn't built when Forsaken already controlled the land, it's a place that's been there since WC2

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenedfist View Post
    The horde was never really on board with the forsaken's tactics as they consider them unhonorable.
    Isn't that... exactly what you quoted me as saying?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by King Diamond View Post
    Your idea sounds vaguely reminiscent of the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, the official state religion of Tirisfal. Although playing a major lore in Forsaken society in the lore, it has not been utilized in the game outside of Shadow Priests' spells and abilities. While Forsaken Shadow Priest and Dark Cleric NPCs are in abundance in the remnants of Lordaeron, the religion itself has been largely absent of a role.
    Yeah plus most of it got gutted when the RPG was decanonized.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisset View Post
    I don't understand the need for a "solution" to the Sylvanas "issue".
    aside from "raising people against their will" and "plaguing every single thing that moves and isn't dead" and "being essentially the exact embodiment of what Arthas was without being manipulated by a cursed sword". Yea, i guess there is no "issue" with Sylvannas.

    in before the Sylvannas brigade chimes in...
    And should he be a prophet of It's coming, he shall be cast out by his kin and his peers, for they cannot comprehend and fear the end of the corrupt empire. - Unknown, 3/1/2012
    I am Lothaeryn, Dragonborn of Nirn and Paladin of Azeroth. Hear my voice and tremble... Bask in my radiance and be inspired...
    For I am the Hand of Dawn, and justice shall be done by my shout and by my blade.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Not really a viable comparison since Southshore wasn't built when Forsaken already controlled the land, it's a place that's been there since WC2

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------



    Isn't that... exactly what you quoted me as saying?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------

    1.I see were you are coming from however I used the westfall thing as an example because what military commander would allow the enemy to have a port city so close to their capital.

    2. Ok that's a durp on my part.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisset View Post
    I don't understand the need for a "solution" to the Sylvanas "issue".
    She murdered the kid of another faction leader of 'good' alignment and has a limited number of 'rezzes'.

    By all the laws of videogame and fantasy story tropes she is SLATED for death.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  13. #13
    The Patient crazymack's Avatar
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    As a member of the Deathstalkers, you idea has been noted and your name listed.

    (Back to real life) Not another I hate Sylvanas thread...I'm just going to put it out there, read a tragedy. If you happen to enjoy it, then you can hopefully look at the forsaken in a different light. I use enjoy from the lack of a better word, normally people don't "enjoy" tragedies.

    Notable Tragedies:

    Antony and Cleopatra
    Coriolanus
    Hamlet
    Julius Caesar
    King Lear
    Macbeth
    Othello
    Romeo and Juliet
    Timon of Athens
    The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus
    Tamburlaine the Great
    The Duchess of Malfi
    The White Devil

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymack View Post
    As a member of the Deathstalkers, you idea has been noted and your name listed.

    (Back to real life) Not another I hate Sylvanas thread...I'm just going to put it out there, read a tragedy. If you happen to enjoy it, then you can hopefully look at the forsaken in a different light. I use enjoy from the lack of a better word, normally people don't "enjoy" tragedies.

    Notable Tragedies:

    Antony and Cleopatra
    Coriolanus
    Hamlet
    Julius Caesar
    King Lear
    Macbeth
    Othello
    Romeo and Juliet
    Timon of Athens
    The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus
    Tamburlaine the Great
    The Duchess of Malfi
    The White Devil
    See the post above... and I'm sorry, if she actually gave a damn about the Forsaken and didn't just pretend to, as revealed in her short story... I'd be all for her being a karma houdini... but since she doesn't, and she killed Liam... AND has a limited number of lives... it's just not gonna happen.

    She's gonna die SOMEDAY.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  15. #15
    Liam jumped in front of the arrow to save Genn it's not like she purposely went out of her way to kill Liam like how Garrosh attacked Anduin.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenedfist View Post
    Liam jumped in front of the arrow to save Genn it's not like she purposely went out of her way to kill Liam like how Garrosh attacked Anduin.
    y'know I'm sure Genn cares a whole lot and sees the difference...
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    y'know I'm sure Genn cares a whole lot and sees the difference...
    If Genn had his way the forsaken wouldn't be playable anymore and Sylvanas wouldn't have been there in the first place if Garrosh didn't force her into the "doghouse".

  18. #18
    ''solution to the Sylvanas issue''

    Kill her. And rest of the forsaken aswell. Forsaken players gets free race chance to another horde race. Problem solved and wow lore makes bit more sense once again.

  19. #19
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenedfist View Post
    Liam jumped in front of the arrow to save Genn it's not like she purposely went out of her way to kill Liam like how Garrosh attacked Anduin.
    You say this like Garrosh sought out Anduin to smack him around. Rather than what actually happened where Anduin interrupted a military event and had his champion slay a large number of Garrosh's soldiers
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  20. #20
    I personally think it'd be more interesting for the Forsaken to try and figure out Mogu stonebinding magic to transcend flesh and death, but it appears they are only interested in learning about this saurok plague or what not. If they keep going around with the plague it needs to be their downfall, as in, getting plagued themselves by saboteurs or targeted artillery strikes. Something which breaks their plot armour and breaks it hard.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 07:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor-Nw View Post
    Forsaken players gets free race chance to another horde race.
    They would quit. There are a lot of Forsaken players who play them simply to immerse themselves as an apathetic zombie murderer. Sadly these types do a disservice to the lore and the race overall since that really shouldn't and isn't the portrayal of the forsaken. Also people quit over will of the forsaken being nerfed... you think they'd happily re-roll an orc or troll and go about it as if nothing is different?
    Last edited by Justignoreme; 2013-02-01 at 07:19 AM.

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