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  1. #1

    Warlock and Simcraft right now

    I know everyone is going to be wondering what gear you should be aiming to get and see the H Elite Protector dagger as BIS but in reality it is not. There are many variables missing in in the current Simcraft profiles that you still need to take account for.

    1. This version of Simcraft is not inherently adding VP upgrades (to do it on your own, add the string "upgrade=1/2" at the end of the item.
    2. This version of Simcraft is not currently recognizing the fact that you will be able to add a prismatic socket to a Sha-Touched weapon at the end of this patch (see: http://www.wowhead.com/item=93403).
    3. Obviously with gear upgradeable the list could very likely stay the same minus weapon - however it is also very possible that this list will change to reflect all the variables available to us currently. The main thing with gear being upgradeable is that this will inevitably put us over "x" haste threshold resulting in wasted stats which will ultimately result in gear needing to be changed/different/etc...

    For now, I would suggest taking what the sim BIS list says lightly. I highly suspect it will be changing more than once in the coming weeks.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    ppl actually thought that BIS list was even close to correct?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    ppl actually thought that BIS list was even close to correct?
    More than a few >.>...

  4. #4
    well te reason why simcraft doesnt show itemupgrades is bcoz it doesnt show up on their armory and since it uses armory for char stats, it wont show your upgraded items, so it is entirely a problem on blizz' side.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    well te reason why simcraft doesnt show itemupgrades is bcoz it doesnt show up on their armory and since it uses armory for char stats, it wont show your upgraded items, so it is entirely a problem on blizz' side.
    Like I said you can modify the string yourself by entering the "upgrade=1/2" onto the sim before you actually calculate it. For making a BIS list it's hardly accurate since upgrading the gear changes the amount of haste on said piece, which in turn will change pieces of gear.

  6. #6
    From an affliction point of view there is no reason to think that a lot of the items will change.

    You will still need 4 tier items, and there is no reason upgraded ilvs would change the off-piece from being the head.

    There is still only 1 real caster ring that drops so that shouldn't change either, and same with offhand only 1 real option.

    For trinkets you have 3 options, but because ilev scaling isn't quite linear, and extra ilevs on a high ilev items gives you more extra stats then on a lower ilev item, the cosmos and essence trinkets should get even better compared to the relic then what they are now.

    The only reason i can see for a possible change for the feet and neck would be if we suddenly have to much hit and there are better options, can't see that as very likely though.

    That leaves the weapon, and this could change to Loshan. Shouldn't be very hard to sim it and find out.

    It's also important to note that it's gonna take like half a year to upgrade all your gear, so the next raid tier will probably be released before you have everything upgraded.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    Like I said you can modify the string yourself by entering the "upgrade=1/2" onto the sim before you actually calculate it. For making a BIS list it's hardly accurate since upgrading the gear changes the amount of haste on said piece, which in turn will change pieces of gear.
    The upgrade= parameter doesn't work for trinket procs, FWIW.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Expandus View Post
    From an affliction point of view there is no reason to think that a lot of the items will change.

    You will still need 4 tier items, and there is no reason upgraded ilvs would change the off-piece from being the head.

    There is still only 1 real caster ring that drops so that shouldn't change either, and same with offhand only 1 real option.

    For trinkets you have 3 options, but because ilev scaling isn't quite linear, and extra ilevs on a high ilev items gives you more extra stats then on a lower ilev item, the cosmos and essence trinkets should get even better compared to the relic then what they are now.

    The only reason i can see for a possible change for the feet and neck would be if we suddenly have to much hit and there are better options, can't see that as very likely though.

    That leaves the weapon, and this could change to Loshan. Shouldn't be very hard to sim it and find out.

    It's also important to note that it's gonna take like half a year to upgrade all your gear, so the next raid tier will probably be released before you have everything upgraded.
    It is entirely possible that the gear will change, even for Affliction. The extra ilvl on the gear will indefinitely place us over the haste threshold that the current list suggests. I am going to go out on a limb and say it's going to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    The upgrade= parameter doesn't work for trinket procs, FWIW.
    This is correct.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    It is entirely possible that the gear will change, even for Affliction. The extra ilvl on the gear will indefinitely place us over the haste threshold that the current list suggests. I am going to go out on a limb and say it's going to change.
    There are no haste thresholds where crit becomes better then haste, so you will still want mastery/haste gear, so don't really see what can change

  10. #10
    I'm not sure on the math but the assuming evenly upgraded dagger and Loshan the dagger just plain has more stats on it so that's why it's better. What could change it however is that the second stage of the legendary questchain adds both 50 int to the gem and a prismatic socket. This extra 210 int could make a difference though I'm not 100% certain.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    The upgrade= parameter doesn't work for trinket procs, FWIW.
    Yes it does. What made you think it doesn't?
    http://wowupgrade.com/ - instant gear comparison for all classes / specs

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Expandus View Post
    There are no haste thresholds where crit becomes better then haste, so you will still want mastery/haste gear, so don't really see what can change
    I suppose that is true, however being in the middle of a threshold is kind of a wasting stats - if there is a crit piece that can be reforged to a more "perfect" level of haste then it will be better as it's not wasting stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harsesis View Post
    I'm not sure on the math but the assuming evenly upgraded dagger and Loshan the dagger just plain has more stats on it so that's why it's better. What could change it however is that the second stage of the legendary questchain adds both 50 int to the gem and a prismatic socket. This extra 210 int could make a difference though I'm not 100% certain.
    Considering Int has a 4.5ish weight and mastery has 2.7, more int = better. Adding the extra 50 int + 160 from prismatic will outweigh the dagger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gobuchul View Post
    Yes it does. What made you think it doesn't?
    When I tried it last night it didn't upgrade the proc, maybe I was blind and didn't see it. Will try again later, /shrug.

  13. #13
    When I tried it last night it didn't upgrade the proc, maybe I was blind and didn't see it. Will try again later, /shrug.[/QUOTE]

    i just used "upgrade=1" or "upgrade=2" and it worked. the fraction thing does not work.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by billafin View Post
    When I tried it last night it didn't upgrade the proc, maybe I was blind and didn't see it. Will try again later, /shrug.
    i just used "upgrade=1" or "upgrade=2" and it worked. the fraction thing does not work.[/QUOTE]

    "Fraction thing" was trying to relay that you enter =1 or =2, no such a thing has half an upgrade .

    Edit: Also I rechecked if the proc was upgrading as well;



    It definitely did upgrade the proc, I must have been blind.
    Last edited by Woz; 2012-12-02 at 03:29 PM.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    I suppose that is true, however being in the middle of a threshold is kind of a wasting stats - if there is a crit piece that can be reforged to a more "perfect" level of haste then it will be better as it's not wasting stats.
    no.. haste is not hit. haste soft caps are nowhere near this big of a deal. haste over the softcap is still worth more than crit, so being in between 2 haste softcaps with no crit is better than being dead on a softcap with some crit. keyword is SOFTcap, not HARDcap

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobuchul View Post
    Yes it does. What made you think it doesn't?
    I was doing proc-only trinket rankings. This is what I got, 10k iterations, using 510-2:


    Here were the lines I used, since I don't know how it uses 'ilevel=':
    copy=Light+of+the+Cosmos+(Heroic)
    trinket1=light_of_the_cosmos,heroic=1

    copy=Light+of+the+Cosmos+(Heroic)+U2-510
    trinket1=light_of_the_cosmos,heroic=1,upgrade=2,quality=epic,ilevel=510

    copy=Light+of+the+Cosmos+(Heroic)+U2-502
    trinket1=light_of_the_cosmos,heroic=1,upgrade=2,quality=epic,ilevel=502

    And even though it looks like it might have worked for U2-502, this is what I see in the proc details:
    Buff details

    buff initial source:Light+of+the+Cosmos+(Heroic)+U2-502
    cooldown name:buff_light_of_the_cosmos
    max_stacks:1
    duration:20.00
    cooldown:45.00
    default_chance:15.00%
    default_value:0.00
    Stat Buff details

    stat:intellect
    amount:3653.00
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggers View Post
    no.. haste is not hit. haste soft caps are nowhere near this big of a deal. haste over the softcap is still worth more than crit, so being in between 2 haste softcaps with no crit is better than being dead on a softcap with some crit. keyword is SOFTcap, not HARDcap
    I'm well aware of how the haste thresholds function. Sitting between 2 haste softcaps is doing you nothing except increased how fast you can hardcast UA and Haunt. That is literally all it's doing for you other than lowering an already low GCD. Crit is more useful in that instance.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    I was doing proc-only trinket rankings. This is what I got, 10k iterations, using 510-2:
    I'm using "id=,upgrade=2", (no ilevel= or quality=), and I'm seeing differences between them:

    Without upgrades:



    With upgrades:



    Note, just started a new trinket thread here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...rinkets-Thread

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenchinage View Post
    I'm using "id=,upgrade=2", (no ilevel= or quality=), and I'm seeing differences between them:
    I tried it without the ilevel/quality, makes no difference. I think the issue it that if you include id= it will grab stats from somewhere, but I am looking for proc only. Check to see that your proc has been upgraded, not just the stats.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    I'm well aware of how the haste thresholds function. Sitting between 2 haste softcaps is doing you nothing except increased how fast you can hardcast UA and Haunt. That is literally all it's doing for you other than lowering an already low GCD. Crit is more useful in that instance.
    That isn't correct, the hole reason haste is so good is because it makes your mg channels faster, meaning you get more dot ticks as well. Haste is now a good stat that becomes even better close to a threshold as oppose to previously where it has been a "ok" stat that became good close to thresholds.

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