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  1. #281
    Seems like you're trying to fix a non existing problem, i mean if you're going to quit wow over no loot in a lfr week then it seems like your valuing loot too much. I mean if you're only doing LFR and you want loot so badly i mean you should do normal raids or something.

  2. #282
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post
    Anyone remember saving badges for your tier pieces? Because that was fun just getting your gear through badges. Not.
    From ICC it was like Cata -- valor for vendor tier and tokens for tier sets.
    ToC it was tokens, too.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byniri View Post
    Also, people REALLY need to remember that LFR was not implemented for people to get easy loot, it was implemented so you could see the content in a more relaxed setting.
    I have never forgotten this, but regardless of why it was implemented, that is not what it has become, why it has been successful, or why its continuous success is critical to the casual player base that keeps WoW going strong!

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post
    Pretty much.

    Wrath: Buy raid gear with badges.
    Cata/MoP: Buy raid equivalent gear with VP.

    Anyone remember saving badges for your tier pieces? Because that was fun just getting your gear through badges. Not.
    That was amazing. I wish it was like that still. Now it's basically vanilla where I pull my fucking hair out everytime onyxia decides not to drop crown of netherwind or my fucking GM decides to give it to the other mages. If I wanted RNG I'd go play Diablo or Torchlight 2. I don't want that in my fucking world of warcraft game and Blizzard moved away from that for years. This whole bullshit about making boss drops more interesting just makes the game on the whole more frustrating. In an expansion where everything is gated, where everything is slow, where progression is STRANGLED, I'm not sure why everyone thinks frustration from lfr is a good thing to pile on top of people as well. Were back in cataclysm mode though. Fanbois pile on top of people with criticism. We all know how that worked out

    The sadest fucking part is that if tmmrw they implemented the ops idea or say increased your chances at getting a piece of loot or adding a magic find system where you get on increased chance over time. IF they added any system at all really, the vast majority of you would be praising them for it anyway. It doesn't affect the lot of you and nothing they do, least of all THIS would piss you off. So instead of calling for some kind of change to alleviate some of the frustration being felt here and expressed by many you'd rather get on their fucking case for expressing even though it wouldn't affect you anyway and you would likely defend them anyway if they went ahead and changed. It's insanity and all it leads to is wild swings between expansion design. Whatever, watch the sub count drop. I can't wait.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-03 at 06:59 AM.

  5. #285
    LFR/LFD isn't going anywhere, Blizzard made it to get more people on the gearing treadmill because it allows them to keep people busy for the least amount of dev time. Also why they won't over trivialize the gear, because they want people going back. I've been running LFR on a few of my chars, and while there have been some weeks where I have had bad luck, there have been other weeks with good luck. I think the far bigger problem is that the loot lists for your spec are so narrow that you very rapidly stop needing loot from specific bosses. This leads to people bailing, which makes it a royal pain in the arse to finish some raids. Now I can't complain because I will bail too if I don't need loot from the last boss(es) and the group is failing pretty hard. Luck is luck, I haven't won a single thing from the coins on any character so far, but I have been getting loot off the bosses so I'm guessing it all evens out. I think the bigger problem isn't so much the loot as the "no reason to stay" problem, and as people gear up more and more most people are only looking for loot from specific bosses. Maybe opening up loot lists so that any boss has a random albeit very small chance of dropping loot from a much larger loot list.

  6. #286
    So you'Re saying, get rid of my chance to get 2-4 pieces of loot, and give me a new redundant currency that will maybe give me a piece of loot every 2 weeks.
    ...yeah no.

    Also, if i only need loot from Terrace, i'm only going to run terrace. 4 bosses, im done. With your idea, i'm either doing 16 bosses, or i'm taking 4 weeks for that piece of loot.
    That's awful.
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  7. #287
    Herald of the Titans Asmodias's Avatar
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    I don't like your idea. Let me tell you why.

    RNG (even though a lot of us hate it) give us a reason to go in to the LFR week after week. There is anticipation of getting gear, but there is also the chance of disappointment when we don't. If your system is put in to place, one can calculate how many times they need to run the LFR to obtain what they want... then they never have to go back. I'm not a big fan of giving a definite time frame for loot like this. My other gripe with this is that the LFR becomes nothing more than a simple grind. It would be just like any of the other rep grinds in the game. Sure, LFR is already a grind, but one doesn't know how long that could be. In its current state, you could be done in 4 runs or you could be done in 400 runs. Your system allows users to pinpoint how long it will take and then that's it. Randomness is good for the game, it keeps people playing.

    Finally, you take away the "epic" feeling of those who are otherwise unable to participate in a non-LFR raid. Sure, that feeling doesn't necessarily apply to those of us who do participate in non-LFR raids... but we don't want to destroy the atmosphere of those who are LFR bound.

    It sucks not getting gear or quest bits in the LFR (with any regularity) I have been living that. I've run quite a bit of the LFR and used many a coin in there only to walk out with a couple of sigils and 1 piece of loot that I promptly replaced the next night in my 10 man raid. There is nothing like getting gold from every boss in all 3 LFR raids. That said, I don't see a need to change anything about the way loot is distributed (at least from my perspective).

    As for those who get the same loot over and over and over again... Check the loot tables. Maybe the boss you are killing only has 1 item on their table that is usable by your class and spec combo. Otherwise, think of it as getting gold from the boss... Or hell, if you are an enchanter, you win because now you are getting decent enchanting mats.

    Case in point, the LFR doesn't need a fix to its loot distribution system in my eyes. Maybe a rebalance of the loot tables, but this particular system isn't something that is needed.


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  8. #288
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    Anyways, we can mull this over forever, and probably will, because of all the differing opinins of the posters who have appeared in this thread. The bottom line is, that regardless of our opinions, if enough people complain and are dissatisfied, Blizzard will attempt to implement a change, and if enough do not, then they won't. My prediction though, is that the frustrations of more players will mount, and the population of people dissatisfied with the lfr loot rate will increase every week until critical mass, or mass exodus. If that comes true, and/or Blizzard does implement a chance, I get to be the one who said I told you so, regardless of whether or not I personally am still playing WoW. I always follow the main wow sites, and watch all the WoW shows put on by Lore and his cohorts, so I'll be onhand to witness it if it happens. Until then, its niether here nor there.

    My suggestion is, and always will be a 20% drop rate for lfr and the world bosses - enough to keep more people interested and feeling like they might get a few pretty trinkets for their efforts if they do it for a few weeks, but not so much that everybody is geared in a month or even 6 weeks (that's too soon - only a slim number should ever be that lucky). If Blizz wants, they could also increase the valor rewards a tiny bit, maybe to 100 per segment, and perhaps even divide it up so its an even valor reward for every boss rather than for the whole segment, just like in reg and heroic. This will ensure people who only raid lfr as a means of capping valor kill any boss they can, rather than favoring only the final boss of each segment. In my opinion, those changes would make the lfr all it ever needs to be to be an amazing addition to the casual content in wow.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoslux View Post
    So you'Re saying, get rid of my chance to get 2-4 pieces of loot, and give me a new redundant currency that will maybe give me a piece of loot every 2 weeks.
    ...yeah no.

    Also, if i only need loot from Terrace, i'm only going to run terrace. 4 bosses, im done. With your idea, i'm either doing 16 bosses, or i'm taking 4 weeks for that piece of loot.
    That's awful.
    I don't understand? Isn't that still better for you than running the LFR? You said you hated the lfr and resented having to run it? Or are you saying that compared to other gearing methods, you really don't mind doing "some" lfr after all?

    Or are you saying you don't want to do "anything at all" to gear up? That's just not realistic. Being a real raider has "some" gearing requirements for most players, unless you find a rare exceptional guild that believes that your skill is the be all and end all of raiding ability.
    Last edited by Rielthas; 2012-12-03 at 07:06 AM.

  9. #289
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byniri View Post
    I just really wish LFR loot was the same ilvl as heroic 5-man loot so that my guild would stop trying to force me to do LFR.

    I seriously hate it and don't want to, but they are trying to force me to do it to raid.
    The loot in LFR does not need to be changed because your guild is pressuring you to get better gear then you have, what kind of logic is that?

    How bad is your gear that they try and "force" you to do LFR in order to come to their raids really? If anything it would only be a needed sign of commitment from you towards the group to be the best you can, and apparently you are not willing to show them that, i think a lot of serious raid leaders would expect as much as trying to upgrade your gear any way possible.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exoblade View Post
    Seems like you're trying to fix a non existing problem, i mean if you're going to quit wow over no loot in a lfr week then it seems like your valuing loot too much. I mean if you're only doing LFR and you want loot so badly i mean you should do normal raids or something.
    Sorry, lol, I have to talk about this one. First off, as I said previously, what make MMO's different from other games is they offer an addicting path of character progression (i.e. loot in most these days). This means, that regardless of players skill levels, we virtually all play the game because of the addiction of getting loot.

    Secondly, how many people have said "I raid regular, and I don't get loot very often, so why should you when you run the lfr?" Therefore, doing regular raids is "not" a great way to get loot, and it depends on one being good enough to get a spot on a team that actually is able to kill bosses.

    Therefore, I don't understand your point. The obsession of obtaining loot is a natural part of being a consistent mmo player regardless of skill level, and doing regular raids is not a consistent or reliable means of obtaining loot.

    Now, if you find regular or heroic raiding fullfilling and satisfying, and don't really care too much whether you are rewarded all that much, then more power too you - you will probably hate lfr, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Its great if the current system in place for your regular or heroic raiding is perfectly satisfactory for you.

    Why does that mean that I have to be satisfied with my current level?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:42 AM ----------

    I want to point out one key difference between reg and lfr that one needs to remember. Its ok that regular raiding reward loot less on average, because it take many groups 6 to 8 weeks to clear the content, so for much of the first part of the tier, the team is only killing a boss or a few bosses, so only so much loot could drop anyways, and there's always the challenge of how long it will take to kill and master the next boss. If a group does manage to clear all the content a time or two, and gets bored of that content, they already have an established consistent team that knows the content - they can always move on to heroic and take weeks and weeks to clear that content. The challenge of killing bosses will always be great for much of the tier, and therefore loot would only be a secondary reward (of course, in lfr the odds of ever getting the same raider twice, let alone the same team is virtually impossible).

    Would players still raid regular and heroic if no loot ever dropped? Sure they would, but they might only clear the instance a few times, and then spend the rest of the tier being bored, because there's nothing else worth doing in the raids

    Imagine if your entire content that was appropriate for your level was almost a mathematical certainty that if you stuck with it, you would clear the entire content the first week, and every week thereafter? How long would it take for your primary motivation of the challenge to fade away, and to need those secondary rewards?

    This problem was well ilustrated in Cata, as a number of heroic guilds stated that they were only still raiding the content later in the expansion to get mounts for the last few members.

    Now imagine for a minute that you are in our position, and the LFR is your entire raiding world, and you could pretty much guarantee that you would clear all the content each and every week. How long would it take you to run it with few secondary rewards to get the feeling that this tier of WoW sucked?

    In my opinion, only justly providing secondary rewards will save the lfr as a true third tier of raiding which is sufficient content for true casual players, and will allow it to keep wow afloat for the casuals as it has since it was implemented. Just another thought I wanted to share in defense of our point that the wow loot rate needs to be sufficiently rewarding, in which the main point of this thread centers around the fact that in our opinion, it is "not"
    Last edited by Rielthas; 2012-12-03 at 07:48 AM.

  11. #291
    The Patient JackHeart's Avatar
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    I still think that is should be a RNG element in drop, especially in raids.
    I think as some else have pointed out, that you shall get an increased chance of drop for every boss that dont drop anything for you, that stacks until something drops. Of course that chance resets everytime you get something, even if you dont need it.
    Rerolls should not reset or increase the chance, because after all it is a "free" bonus chance.

    I would also very much like the posibility to change the drop from specc specific to class specific..
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  12. #292
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Anyone expecting to get an item or two every single time in LFR must be smoking rocks, or have serious mental issues!

    It's not men't to be a giftshop, try and enjoy that the shitty feature is even there instead of acting like little greedy fat spoiled kids denied another twinkie.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackHeart View Post
    I still think that is should be a RNG element in drop, especially in raids.
    I think as some else have pointed out, that you shall get an increased chance of drop for every boss that dont drop anything for you, that stacks until something drops. Of course that chance resets everytime you get something, even if you dont need it.
    Rerolls should not reset or increase the chance, because after all it is a "free" bonus chance.

    I would also very much like the posibility to change the drop from specc specific to class specific..
    Are you saying you wish that there was an increased chance of drop for every boss that doesn't drop loot? If you are, then I have to say that next to increasing the overall percentage chance, that's the best solution to the frustration I've heard, because its still always a chance, even if that chance can improve lover long periods of poor luck.

    If your saying that someone said that that is the case currently, then I'm afraid you misunderstood them. Currently, there is always a 15% chance of drop every boss kill or charm usage. That never changes regardless of how lucky or unlucky you might be.

    I would like to see that just simply be raised to a flat rate of 20% myself, but I suppose if you make a system that only makes it more liklely for unlucky people to get drops, than that's a pretty good idea too, because they're the ones who are frustrated beyond words.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 01:14 AM ----------

    And yes, there will always be, and probably has to always be, a random element to general gearing in wow to keep players addicted. I just feel that the lfr rate is so low its having the opposite effect on a number of players like myself right now.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 01:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    Anyone expecting to get an item or two every single time in LFR must be smoking rocks, or have serious mental issues!

    It's not men't to be a giftshop, try and enjoy that the shitty feature is even there instead of acting like little greedy fat spoiled kids denied another twinkie.
    LOL, why? The Darkmoon faire is a giftshop, why can't the lfr be that for us as well? Secondly, maybe I like being a little greedy fat spoiled kid, and maybe I just want a few more twinkies!

    LOL, who he heck are you, and whats it to you if I get my twinkies or not? Maybe Blizzard giving an extra twinkie every now and again might be what saves wow - how do you know it won't be

  14. #294

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    I don't understand? Isn't that still better for you than running the LFR? You said you hated the lfr and resented having to run it? Or are you saying that compared to other gearing methods, you really don't mind doing "some" lfr after all?

    Or are you saying you don't want to do "anything at all" to gear up? That's just not realistic. Being a real raider has "some" gearing requirements for most players, unless you find a rare exceptional guild that believes that your skill is the be all and end all of raiding ability.
    I actually like the LFR. It's great to get that feeling of raiding. Your idea is against that.

    In normal raiding, there are weeks you gain nothing, there are weeks you see other people in your raid gets loot, but you dont. There are weeks where you just lose the rolls. Sometimes you get something, but its not your BiS, but its a minor upgrade still, sometimes its just a sidegrade with better itemization. If your guild doesnt need gear anymore out of one of the raids, you're definitely not going to continue to run that place.

    Why should we get rid of all of that out of LFR, which is what your idea gives us? All your idea means is that LFR isnt a raiding environment anymore, it's a pvp environment at this point. You run whatever BG/LFR raid as you want, who the hell cares, they all gives the same results: A few points toward your next piece of gear that YOU choose because its all there on a vendor for you to pick. You dont get those sidegrades, you dont get minor upgrades. You dont even get the feeling of wanting to replace one piece of gear extremely badly. Its no more excitement over "Hopefully finally upgrading that one piece that's dragging me down!". It's now just "Oh? That's my lowest piece, well i guess that's what im getting this week."
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  16. #296
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    You might be mixing me up with the OP. My opinion is in the same direction as his, that something should be done to solve what we both view as LFR Loot problems. However, I don't mind the RNG that much, I just want it to hit a little bit more. I do think his suggestion is at least in the direction of better than leaving it as it is though.

  17. #297
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    The funny part about ppl complaining about LFR loot is that they forgot about loots in regular raids before. You were not guaranteed any loot either and you could loose it to a ninja looter that already got it or didn't need it.

    Even in cata LFR i used to go a couple of weeks before i actually won a loot i needed.
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  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagdar View Post
    The funny part about ppl complaining about LFR loot is that they forgot about loots in regular raids before. You were not guaranteed any loot either and you could loose it to a ninja looter that already got it or didn't need it.

    Even in cata LFR i used to go a couple of weeks before i actually won a loot i needed.
    There is a small difference with not getting loot for a couple of weeks, and not getting loot for 6+ weeks.

  19. #299
    On an related topic...I got 5 items from one MSV LFR run. RNG at it's finest!

  20. #300
    The Patient spambanjo's Avatar
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    All this whining it just... it's beautiful. I said all along that changing the system from the one people complained about so much would result in yet more whining. When will you greedy bastards learn that you will never have a loot system that pleases you, because you want everything on a plate, you don't want to have to go through the progression arc and tbh, you probably shouldn't be playing MMO games at all.

    The only way for Blizzard to give you what you actually want is to install a "OMFG FREE 90 EPIXFTW LOLWUT" button that you scrubs can hit when you get to max level. I would whole heartedly agree with this option tbh... that way all you scrubs that use it will get bored of WoW sooner than those who play to enjoy the game and hopefully gtfo till the next patch hits when you can repeat the process.
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