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  1. #321
    Just make the gold bags have a small chance to have a random lfr piece of gear.

  2. #322
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    No, it really isn't, nor is every opinion that differs from yours a troll.

    Things to consider: The RNG in LFR is the same as it's ever been for any 25 man raid. You can go weeks or months not ever seeing that one upgrade you've been looking for, this is no different.

    A guaranteed loot or currency system would eventually mean folks having no reason to run LFR any longer, which would increase queue times, making everyone unhappy.
    I'm not necessarily in favor of a fixed loot system, just a slightly more frequently rewarding one, first off.

    If you're down to that "one" or even "two" upgrades, there should be a chance of going weeks or over a month, because you're after one or two particular pieces out of many. However, if you needed 10 upgrades, as many casuals who rely on the lfr do, and you rarely ever got anything that would upgrade any of them week after week, that might be a different story. It should always take a while to get the last few particular pieces. Duplicate drops and non-upgrade drops are frequent in wow, and always will be. That doesn't necessarily imply that the drop rate is enough to give you a fair chance to get enough loot drops, so that you do eventually get some upgrades, maybe even most upgrades over the course of a few months. This is more about the people who are running lfr failthfully, killing all available bosses every week, and still go week after week with few or no meaningful upgrades. How many times can a normal person be expected to kill the same 16 bosses week after week if there not getting something to progress their character. Why would anyone in this position want to keep doing it? Valor? There are far quicker ways to cap valor, and if nothing else, you have to kill the last boss of each segment to get a chunk of valor, you don't necessarily need to run much of the lfr at all for that.

    No matter what Blizzard does, people will run out of reasons to run the lfr at some point in the tier, whether its because they have a full set of gear that could not be upgraded at all from lfr loot (which would likely take 3 to 4 months for many considering the amount of duplicate and non-upgrade item drops and the current loot drop chance in general) or because learned helplessness sets in, and people just can't justify running it again because the odds of being rewarded become so slim (especially as fewer and fewer upgrades are needed). The point is to maximize the length of time people will run the lfr. Right now, I suggest that virtually no one will gear up so much from lfr alone that they will stop doing it for this reason for the entire tier, but many may quit after a month to a month and a half when they realize that the odds of getting the last upgrades they need from it are virtually nil (learned helplessness). That would make the lfr a virtual ghosttown in less than two months. I suggest that if they increase the drop rate to 20%, that true, a few may get fully geared in 2 to 3 months or se, which is perfectly fine, and a few will still be so ridiculously unlucky that learned helplessness will make them quit too. However, I suggest the mass majority would continue to run lfr for at least 3 months, which would be plenty of effort for a ful set of lower tier gear and plenty of time to obtain those drops. The runs would feel just a bit more exciting as a few more pieces drop, even if they are duplicates, the next one may not be, and they would know that there's more to come.

    If Blizzard thinks trying to stretch out content like the lfr, which is killing all of the same 16 bosses every week, for much more than 3 months, their insane. You can only stretch a good thing so far, before it becomes a big long and wide piece of crap.

    With the current drop rate of 15%, I hypothethise that far too many people will not be geared up after 3 months of running the lfr, and that people are just going to grow tired, and rather than have the feeling that the lfr took a long time but was very rewarding, they'll remember that they run it to boredom and exhaustion, and still didn't get all they wanted out of it, which will leave a bitter taste in their mouths against the lfr.

    For regular raiders this will not matter at all, so this shouldn't concern them. For people who expect that the lfr will be their only raiding experience in this tier, that would leave this tier of content feeling incomplete, and perhaps ruined for them.

  3. #323
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    No matter what Blizzard does, people will run out of reasons to run the lfr at some point in the tier, whether its because they have a full set of gear that could not be upgraded at all from lfr loot (which would likely take 3 to 4 months for many considering the amount of duplicate and non-upgrade item drops and the current loot drop chance in general) or because learned helplessness sets in, and people just can't justify running it again because the odds of being rewarded become so slim (especially as fewer and fewer upgrades are needed).
    After dismal chances to win that healing shield, I just stopped going into LFR. There was no motivation to try, especially when the +bonus rolls allowed off-specs to roll on it. Why bother healing anymore after 19 Gunship runs and -- that -- happens? Top healer and a Ret gets it.

    WoW is a game where it can kill motivation to try, so much so because of the loot design. I careless to raid anymore. WotLK and Cata shield drop/win rates of 3+ months, don't care anymore. I'm sure I'm not the only one who dropped out over it all, too.

    There's some reasonable expectations on loot. You don't expect everything the first week. But when months pass, the tier itself is almost over. Blizzard needs to rethink what is acceptable amount of time waiting on items to drop, especially if tiers come every 4 months and 3+ months of raiding you're still not geared out. Folks could farm for the legendary faster.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  4. #324
    People are comparing it to rng in normal raids. You simply cant do that because normal boss always drops loot, on every single kill!!! The loot he drops is random, and thats it. I got 3 items in lfr and 2 of those 3 have been same ( trinkets ), in raids you have to be stupid to use dkp for 2 same items ( not talking about weapon )...

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    People are comparing it to rng in normal raids. You simply cant do that because normal boss always drops loot, on every single kill!!! The loot he drops is random, and thats it. I got 3 items in lfr and 2 of those 3 have been same ( trinkets ), in raids you have to be stupid to use dkp for 2 same items ( not talking about weapon )...
    You can still have the same item drop every single week in normal.

  6. #326
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    i think that's the purpose of valour points but there is very little to spend valour points on atm >.<

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Suizid View Post
    You can still have the same item drop every single week in normal.
    You are confused with have a chance to get the loot at all with fact that in normal/hc every boss drops the loot. So if its the same loot every single week ppl that need that gear will gear up.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    You are confused with have a chance to get the loot at all with fact that in normal/hc every boss drops the loot. So if its the same loot every single week ppl that need that gear will gear up.
    You can get loot that no one needs in normals every week, also. RNG is RNG.

  9. #329
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I like it, but I say make it a chance to drop not guaranteed off each boss and lower costs. and you get LFR quality gear. This way you can get Offset gear as well.

  10. #330
    I think this is a ridiculous idea; they have a system like this already, it's called Valor point gear. While you won't fill every slot with it, it will make you more desirable to take raiding therefore you'll fill the rest of the slots.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Suizid View Post
    You can get loot that no one needs in normals every week, also. RNG is RNG.
    RNG in normal raids is not same as RNG in LFR. You are again confused with guaranteed drop ( random gear ) from a normal boss to a chance to get item from a LFR boss. Also you need to keep in mind that RNG in LFR can give you 2+ same items and you need only one, and in normal you wont spend DKP for that. Also in normal your guild is gearing up ( and DE item if no1 needs it ) and in lfr you can get 10x same freaking item you dont need and never get a weapon.
    Also if Blizz is saying LFR is to see content, then once you do it, lock it so you cant do it again....

  12. #332
    ^ dkp is not an ingame mechanic. yes u can keep getting the same item you don't need over and over in normal raids too. OP's definition of a loot problem is the fact that he is not getting the loot he wants.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    RNG in normal raids is not same as RNG in LFR. You are again confused with guaranteed drop ( random gear ) from a normal boss to a chance to get item from a LFR boss. Also you need to keep in mind that RNG in LFR can give you 2+ same items and you need only one, and in normal you wont spend DKP for that. Also in normal your guild is gearing up ( and DE item if no1 needs it ) and in lfr you can get 10x same freaking item you dont need and never get a weapon.
    Also if Blizz is saying LFR is to see content, then once you do it, lock it so you cant do it again....
    And tell me how it's not possible for same item to drop over and over again in normal? Yes, you're probably going to win it only once, but that doesn't change the fact it can drop over and over again, without you ever seeing, let's say, that weapon you so want.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Suizid View Post
    And tell me how it's not possible for same item to drop over and over again in normal? Yes, you're probably going to win it only once, but that doesn't change the fact it can drop over and over again, without you ever seeing, let's say, that weapon you so want.
    Again you are confused with have a chance to drop ( item ) in LFR and that boss will drop some items. Yes, you can kill Elagon 10x and never get wepon from him but every time you kill him he will drop items that you can roll and take for OS ( and you dont get OS loot in LFR if you are going with different spec ) or some small upgrades. In LFR you get only one item ( if lucky ), I wont count tokens since you can use them in normal also and in normal raid you can get all items you need from a single kill and items are better then one in lfr.

    Blizz keeps forgetting that ppl play on alts and many dont have time to raid in specific time/date on those alts so they do lfr to get gear and not to see content or get valor points, simply to gear alts in case you will need them to help in progress or something like that. So doing MV 7 weeks and no getting a single item from a boss and also using tokens is pain in the ass and frustrating.

  15. #335
    We already have a system like the OP is suggesting. It's called "Valor Gear." And now valor points are needed even if you do n't want the gear at all.

    I'm fine with LFR's current loot ration. Hell, I don't get an item every raid week in normals, why should I demand one from LFR? At most they should maybe slightly buff the reward rate in LFR but overall the system is fine. And I prefer this vastly over the 'lol everybody hit need on everything you can' system we had in DS.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    We already have a system like the OP is suggesting. It's called "Valor Gear." And now valor points are needed even if you do n't want the gear at all.

    I'm fine with LFR's current loot ration. Hell, I don't get an item every raid week in normals, why should I demand one from LFR? At most they should maybe slightly buff the reward rate in LFR but overall the system is fine. And I prefer this vastly over the 'lol everybody hit need on everything you can' system we had in DS.
    Hitting need was EZ fixable. All Blizz had t do is prevent OS rolling need and like in seasonal boss you cant loot 2x same item. So solution was there but hey i still lose main gear to person rolling need for OS in dungeons.

    And also again, this is not getting loot ever 2nd week, its about not getting single loot 6 weeks in a row, and that has to be changed. Solution is to buff your % of chance, like in D3 when u use magic find gear. So you start with 10%, you kill boss no loot, that % jumps to 20%, next time if you dont get loot 30% and so one. When you get item that % resets to 10% and so on, for every boss like that...

  17. #337
    So basically somebody is whining because they havent won loot. Gratz, welcome to RNG which has been in place for 8 years. If I whined and posted about every time I went the span of a few weeks without getting loot I'd fill up the forums. Seriously, people need to get over the whole 'I didn't get loot so I'm going to whine' attitude.

  18. #338
    My solution: Keep as is, with the 20% chance of random usable item, but change the greater fortune token to have 2 uses:
    1) Can be used as an extra roll with 40% (instead of 20%) chance at any usable loot by your role/class/spec
    2) Can be used as an extra roll with 20% chance at a SPECIFIC item of your choice from loot pool usable by your CLASS. This means you can bet your token on a specific drop you're looking for, or even on an offspec item. Still limited to 3 tokens per week/10 total.

    This puts more emphasis on the token while keeping both forms of RNG.

  19. #339
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keilith View Post
    This is just a simplified version of valor points and you want a guaranteed piece of loot a week.
    erm try that again you cant buy anything with 1k vp

    as for the op, lfr only dropping tokens and buying items with the tokens, no

    i dono if this is the right game but stop trying to rip off SC2's system
    Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2012-12-04 at 04:56 PM.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Hitting need was EZ fixable. All Blizz had t do is prevent OS rolling need and like in seasonal boss you cant loot 2x same item. So solution was there but hey i still lose main gear to person rolling need for OS in dungeons.

    And also again, this is not getting loot ever 2nd week, its about not getting single loot 6 weeks in a row, and that has to be changed. Solution is to buff your % of chance, like in D3 when u use magic find gear. So you start with 10%, you kill boss no loot, that % jumps to 20%, next time if you dont get loot 30% and so one. When you get item that % resets to 10% and so on, for every boss like that...
    I am sorry that RNG hates you right now. But the chance to win loot in LFR is roughly the same as it would be in normal/heroic, even if your personal results do not reflect that.

    The only adjustment I would want Blizzard to make, to even further mimic the environment seen in normal/heroic raids done with a set group is that the % change at loot increases after the current LFR tier has been out for a time, capping out slightly higher than base chance. Loot should never, ever be guaranteed though. That's what Valor is for. I'm thinking more like, if the chance at loot is 15% in LFR per boss kill right now, increase it a little per week after the tier has been out for 8-10 weeks, until you get to 25%. That would simulate a similar effect to people in your raid getting geared out and thus lowering competition for loot. But in non-LFR raids, you still have a chance that the boss simply wouldn't drop anything you wanted/needed, so the loot drop chance in LFR should not raise very high overall.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

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