Brilliant idea to solve " LFR Loot " problems.

[Gohzerlock]

Rng is good for the game in blizz's mind because most people don't have good luck, so they have to go back and farm x boss in y raid even if it's raid finder could be an upgrade. Which although monotonous it adds some longevity to the content, if you're casual and don't do reg raids use the valor upgrade system. It's quite good, if you miss out on a piece you want you can upgrade something else making you feel like all your effort isn't wasted.

If that isn't enough buy valor gear, sure it's frustrating if you're trying to get your 4 set bonus but if you had it right off the bat would that excitement really last that long? I also heard someone say they should implement a quest for raids, they did this for sha and I suppose you could say the legendary drops are an extra quest (although i don't know you'd classify a gem as gear:P).

System is fine, part of what makes it good is the anticipation. The only thing I could say they could maybe change is the amount of gold, but then if they made it too much it'd make people grind. Personally I say it wouldn't be a bad idea 150g per boss no loot 50 gold per bg win, something to take the sting out of losing and resulting in qq threads such as this.

[Gilian]

This is not a problem with LFR loot. It has always been like this. There has always been RNG in loot drops. The fact that a lot of people in this community freak out about the littlest things is a problem but we are not able to fix that.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 01:36 PM ----------

Rng is good for the game in blizz's mind because most people don't have good luck, so they have to go back and farm x boss in y raid even if it's raid finder could be an upgrade. Which although monotonous it adds some longevity to the content, if you're casual and don't do reg raids use the valor upgrade system. It's quite good, if you miss out on a piece you want you can upgrade something else making you feel like all your effort isn't wasted.

If that isn't enough buy valor gear, sure it's frustrating if you're trying to get your 4 set bonus but if you had it right off the bat would that excitement really last that long? I also heard someone say they should implement a quest for raids, they did this for sha and I suppose you could say the legendary drops are an extra quest (although i don't know you'd classify a gem as gear:P).

System is fine, part of what makes it good is the anticipation. The only thing I could say they could maybe change is the amount of gold, but then if they made it too much it'd make people grind. Personally I say it wouldn't be a bad idea 150g per boss no loot 50 gold per bg win, something to take the sting out of losing and resulting in qq threads such as this.

150g is way too much. To be honest we really do not need more incentive to do LFR or rewards to please people in there. That people actually ask for even more is beyond me. You get a piss easy 'raid' with very good rewards.
Even if they change it to 150g or they give us tokens as extra reward or a mount for finishing a LFR instance so people stay till the end then in a few months or maybe next expansion we will have people asking for more again. It never ends.

If you think the rewards are not good enough then you should go play another game. We already saw what gearing up too fast does to this game in Cataclysm.

[Nonslid]

Make it like Vanilla again, an epic a month or so! Then epics was actually epic.

Well not like Vanilla, it was a nightmare :P But how it is now, people should be able to get pretty full epic kinda fast IF they put some time in it. And we all know that's the only way to get gear fast - spend time, alot of it! Grind those reputations, you can do one hub at the time and only spend like 30 minutes on it (Or even less if you make a group for it). I havent rushed it at all, some weeks I dont even bother doing daily quests, and I'm atleast revered with all the factions that sell Valor items now. It's piss easy to get gear. LFR isnt the only resource you got, so stop the whining and WORK for it, dont just sign up for a LFR and expect free loot.

Kids these days, huh?

Effort = Reward

[jazen]

Working as intended.

The question is: why are normal/heroic raiders in LFR?

they are there so they can qq about casuals and bitch/whine like they don't get to in their guild raids.

[stouthaggis]

I personally don't have a problem with the LFR loot system as it stands. DS LFR had people needing on items in order to trade to their raid friends, or, in the spirit of good old passive aggressive internet behaviour, needing just to deny someone else the item. There may still be bugs with loot being appropriated to the wrong class spec, but they'll be ironed out as time goes on.

I don't agree that there should be some kind of supplementary reward when you don't win an epic - that just cheapens the whole reward system.

[Nonslid]

I personally don't have a problem with the LFR loot system as it stands. DS LFR had people needing on items in order to trade to their raid friends, or, in the spirit of good old passive aggressive internet behaviour, needing just to deny someone else the item. There may still be bugs with loot being appropriated to the wrong class spec, but they'll be ironed out as time goes on.

I don't agree that there should be some kind of supplementary reward when you don't win an epic - that just cheapens the whole reward system.

It was also those that needed on items and gave them to people that actually needed them.. I know I did that a bunch of times, Cata LFR was way to ninja-friendly. Made alot of friends though by doing it though

[Rielthas]

It was also those that needed on items and gave them to people that actually needed them.. I know I did that a bunch of times, Cata LFR was way to ninja-friendly. Made alot of friends though by doing it though

And the other thing that was good to me was the fact that a dedicated wower who was intent on achieving his gear goals, one could que at various times, and pay attention to the group composition, and look for runs where there was not an overabundant amount of players rolling on the type of loot they were interested in (e.g. tier tokens). Sometimes, I was really lucky, and I would get a que on my Paladin where only 3 other players were rolling on my tier tokens. It at least allowed me to at least adjust the odds in my favor to my personal preference. This current system seems so helpless. Great for players who don't care how fast they gear up a toon (e.g. players with few alts, etc.) but for me who has a goal to gear up at least 4 toons with 2 specs to at least a complete lfr set by the end of the tier (my personal playstyle preference - lots of variety of characters), it allowed me to gear up a little quicker. With 4 toons all with 2 specs, believe me, it took virtually the entire tier to finish gearing up anyways, and I was nor would I ever complain about anything that would help make it a little faster.

So, ya, I have mixed feelings about the fact that group composition has no effect on chance of loot - I know that part has to be this way, becasue worrying all the time about "too many people to roll against for my gear" was more concerning then I wanted it to be at times, but I miss being able to increase my odds when I felt like it.

[Granyala]

*snip*

Just add weapons for Valor, decrease Item cost by 50% so it doesn't take 6 months but three month to gear up and be done with it.

Peeps would continue to run LFR for the intermediary 476 gear but would work towards the 489 valor gear, knowing they can outfit every slot now.

[Spl4sh3r]

I don't like your system. Basicly you want to change the WoW loot system which has existed since vanilla because you are unlucky. The only thing we need to fix is that if you get a piece you don't need you should be able to give it to someone else in the raid, since this is the reason why we get so few pieces. Many people get stuff they don't need which with the old system would be passed and someone who needs it get it. Also make so they can't be sold to vendor or disenchanted, this would stop people from needing on them for those reasons. Also Blizzard can implement a system that tells if the player has won a specific item and then no longer get to roll on it, this would stop the ninjas instead of using the current system.

[thunderdragon2]

they are there so they can qq about casuals and bitch/whine like they don't get to in their guild raids.

i have seen any of that in mop lfr i think they do it for the extra chance on sigils for their legendary gem, only thing i can think of

[Luciferiuz]

I didn't insult you, I insulted your position which is boneheaded. I agree though let's take the loot drops and make lfr as popular and widely used as challenge modes.... oh what's that you say? next to nobody is doing challenge modes? awesome. Okay now that we got that bit of stupidity out of the way we can discuss the real problem which is lfr doesn't drop enough loot or loot fast enough. You don't accept this position and furthermore you seem to feel that the quality of the loot should be reduced. Fine. I hope Blizzard listens to you. See what you people don't seem to understand is that telling your fellow players and I might add fellow customers that they should expect less and that they should be happy with what they get (because presumably you feel they are entitled spoiled brats) only pisses them off. When they get pissed off or frustrated they leave and Blizzard looses money. Blizzard doesn't like to loose money. So what happens? Well we get another wild swing between expansions. The writing is on the wall and BONEHEADED philosophies like telling your fellow players to stop whining about loot only exacerbates the situation.

My dearest and most devout wish is that Blizzard listens to every BONEHEADED suggestions that you people espouse so we can get through mists as quickly as possible with as much sub loss as possible in as short a period of time as possible and move on to something better for the world of warcraft. Please continue to insult your fellow customers, tell them why they are wrong to be mad and why this system is better, and cheer and applaud Blizzard for shooting themselves in the foot. In the end changes will come and my suspicion is that you will defend those changes even if they are the exact opposite of what they did before. If they changed lfr loot one bit it wouldn't matter to most of you anyway and yet here you are arguing in favor of the current system anyway...

I'm really trying not to rise to your aggressive and one-sided rhetoric but it is trying my patience pretty hard so I'll just say this.

You have stated that you have unsubscribed. I am trying to discuss this with current players, not forum lurkers.

Please stop responding to my posts as I feel you have nothing useful to add and are deliberately exacerbating the situation by insulting my position, implying things about my character, and assuming things about motives as well as deliberately misinterpreting me.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 11:02 AM ----------

Again, /roll 100x and see how many times will you get 85+, some how i dont think that number is <3. So taking in mind items ppl got that number is less then 15%.....

You can do dungeons more then lfr, there is more to see, valor reward is greater + you get justice points. I enjoy doing it also, that is the reason while my main is in raiding guild, what i dont enjoy is that i have to do it over and over with alts and not get gear....

That evidence is anecdotal at best. I don't really think I have to try and disprove logic which is so shaky.

I can do dungeons, I prefer doing LFR. Such is my choice. The bonus loot is part of that, and I dont hate it, I just dont expect it.

Also, Blizz has said multiple times that MoP design isn't factoring in alts as they want to give you plenty to do on a single character with an alt as a bonus as opposed to a fully fledged second main.

[Korrah]

There is nothing to solve?
It workes like intended and I personally love it.

[Luciferiuz]

And the other thing that was good to me was the fact that a dedicated wower who was intent on achieving his gear goals, one could que at various times, and pay attention to the group composition, and look for runs where there was not an overabundant amount of players rolling on the type of loot they were interested in (e.g. tier tokens).

If you think this is anywhere close to Blizzards design philosophy you are wrong. They dont want players "shopping" for runs and abandoning groups to improve their personal chances at loot.

[Rielthas]

I'm really trying not to rise to your aggressive and one-sided rhetoric but it is trying my patience pretty hard so I'll just say this.

You have stated that you have unsubscribed. I am trying to discuss this with current players, not forum lurkers.

Please stop responding to my posts as I feel you have nothing useful to add and are deliberately exacerbating the situation by insulting my position, implying things about my character, and assuming things about motives as well as deliberately misinterpreting me.

Two things, man:

1) I have "not" unsubscribed. Show me in any post where I said I was not a current subscriber or had actually unsubscribed? I said that after 3 years, Blizz is pushing me closer to unsubscribing then I ever thought possible with the "frustration" factor of the LFR.

2) Why are you continuing this fight? I have not attempted to say anything combatitive to you in 2 days. If I even touched on anything you said in the past 2 days, it was merely to illustrate a point I had and in no way to belittle yours. I am done with you - I find you as ridiculous as you appear to find me, and we have to agree to disagree because we appear to have no perspectives in common!

If anything, I find it weird and ammusing watching you continue to blarb your points in a thread that has nothing in common with your beliefs. For me, even though my ideal idea is different, this thread is at least in the general direction that I am looking, and that is to improve what I feel is a unwarrantedly frustrating MOP lfr loot system.

Finally, if you think Blizzard does not have any sympathy in our direction at all, see Gamebreaker.tv 's interview with Greg Ghostcrawler Street on the website now. Ghostcrawler acknowledges that the repetitive item drop issue is a problem, and they are considering having an "optional rerolling" system in place if you do not have any intgerest in a particular item you have won. Even Ghostcrawler himself recognizes that that things aren't perfect with the current lfr loot system, regardless of what you believe Blizzard's position is.

Anyways, if you have any constructive replies to my points in this particular post, feel free to make it. Otherwise, please leave me out of this. I'm just done with you, and do not wish to continue any battle with you.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 05:45 PM ----------

I think it would be great if a reroll was chosen due to a useless piece of loot being awarded, and you were really lucky to win loot again, they could give you any random approriate piece of loot from any boss in the particular lfr segment or raid instance's loot table. This would add a small "replayability" to bosses, even once a person had every available piece of loot in his table - kind of like the way players would "need" on pieces they didn't need in Cata, with hopes that they might have a small chance of trading with another player for something they did need from a future boss.

It might also be nice if there was a small chance, in the event one rolled high, but too low for loot, to get a small quantity of bonus valor points. That's another idea that might make the lfr more bearable and more "replayable" than it appears it may turn out to be in MOP.

[Luciferiuz]

Rielthas. Check who I am quoting. That is who I am talking to. I have no beef with you friend.

And this thread is discussing what changes should be made to the LFR. I have views on this, this is relevant to me.

Ghostcrawler said he is looking at solutions which aren't more epics. So that kind of proves my point.

[Rielthas]

If you think this is anywhere close to Blizzards design philosophy you are wrong. They dont want players "shopping" for runs and abandoning groups to improve their personal chances at loot.

Oh and I'm not saying that this was right or wrong in game design, it was probably wrong, but that it increased the chances that players who wanted it of getting extra loot. Its something that one should consider when comparing the chance of loot with the old sysem to the new. That and item trading made it feel that the chances of getting loot was greater, and made the LFR more exciting, and something that I personally was excited about doing every week (a must do). Now, It just doesn't feel as exciting anymore, and for the first time since the LFR was invented, I skipped doing most of the bosses last week, except the ones dropping tier tokens, because when push comes to shove, the chance of feeling rewarded from doing those lower bosses I've killed a number of times before was less then the time and effort I had in me to run it. Once again, this has never been the case for me since the LFR was launched. If I was the only person starting to feel this way, that would be one thing, but I don't get the impression I am. I hearing this more and more each week, and the que times for LFR are getting greater. It hasn't taken a half hour to get a que into The Terrace of Endless Spring in the later afternoon until this week. It could just be weird coincidence, but it feels like less people are running the LFR then in previous weeks.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 05:58 PM ----------

Rielthas. Check who I am quoting. That is who I am talking to. I have no beef with you friend.

And this thread is discussing what changes should be made to the LFR. I have views on this, this is relevant to me.

Ghostcrawler said he is looking at solutions which aren't more epics. So that kind of proves my point.

Sorry, you're right, I apologise, it looked like my quote, and I made a hasty judgement there. No need to continue or create additional negative blood. What do you think of the idea of a"reroll" option when loot is actually won, whether taken to the extreme of my idea or not?

[Luciferiuz]

Oh and I'm not saying that this was right or wrong in game design, it was probably wrong, but that it increased the chances that players who wanted it of getting extra loot. Its something that one should consider when comparing the chance of loot with the old sysem to the new. That and item trading made it feel that the chances of getting loot was greater, and made the LFR more exciting, and something that I personally was excited about doing every week (a must do). Now, It just doesn't feel as exciting anymore, and for the first time since the LFR was invented, I skipped doing most of the bosses last week, except the ones dropping tier tokens, because when push comes to shove, the chance of feeling rewarded from doing those lower bosses I've killed a number of times before was less then the time and effort I had in me to run it. Once again, this has never been the case for me since the LFR was launched. If I was the only person starting to feel this way, that would be one thing, but I don't get the impression I am. I hearing this more and more each week, and the que times for LFR are getting greater. It hasn't taken a half hour to get a que into The Terrace of Endless Spring in the later afternoon until this week. It could just be weird coincidence, but it feels like less people are running the LFR then in previous weeks.

I understand that you "feel" like there are less people running, but while we are throwing anecdotal evidence out there let me tell you that in my active raiding guild which is 10/16 at least 70% of us still do every LFR each week.

It's a great way to earn quick valor points while having a small chance at grabbing some 476 loot for offspec or for our alts.

I understand you personally believe that LFR could be failing in a month or so from now, and that that would lead to subscriber numbers dropping, I just don't feel comfortable speculating on something so subjective without any kind of reasonable numbers to base it off.

If you could accurately show me LFR numbers decreasing over time, with a greater and greater effect as time goes on, then we might have something to talk about.

As it is, you can say "I feel like LFR is dead" all you want and I will still reply "but I don't".

[Rielthas]

I understand you personally believe that LFR could be failing in a month or so from now, and that that would lead to subscriber numbers dropping, I just don't feel comfortable speculating on something so subjective without any kind of reasonable numbers to base it off.

If you could accurately show me LFR numbers decreasing over time, with a greater and greater effect as time goes on, then we might have something to talk about.

As it is, you can say "I feel like LFR is dead" all you want and I will still reply "but I don't".

I understand your opinion on that too sir. Its a prediction, its true, or what I fear could be a warning. Its a note to watch out and see if things pan out the way I predict. There is no current statistical evidence that I know of. Its one of those things though that if does come to pass, and Blizzard deals with it reactionly rather than proactively, could cause irrepairable damage in my opinion, which is why I'm so passionate about it. Essentially, by the time it becomes obvious that its happening, it could be too late to prevent a great deal of subscription loss.

I'm not suggesting that LFR is dead, or even dying yet at this point - just that I fear that this direction could come. If Blizzard were to ignore the players currently crying that they're feeling "dissatisfied" with the current lfr, that in itself would probably not be the end of the world. Of course we don't know how many people feel this way, but are too "casual" say to bother with posting on forums regardless. However, what happends if more and more players who have been relatively lucky to this point start to get unlucky for weeks on end? How many players who loved the LFR in Cata regardless of its faults are willing to accept a different lfr that gives them virtually no chance of control of the odds, and starts not rewarding loot that they're used to getting for weeks on end? We don't know at this point. All I know is that its a long tier still, as we're only one patch in, and a lot more will be clear in a month or so.

Did the LFR work so well in Cata because it was just fun killing the same bosses week after week on every toon, or was it because a number of people who did felt they had some ability to expect rewards from it? If that was what kept the LFR going strong all through Cata after it was launched, what will happen to it once more players realize that this is no longer the case?

Time will tell....

[Seranthor]

Why can't casuals be banned from the game?

That's easy, because there aren't enough hardcore children capable of talking their parents out of the credit card to pay for the kind of game that you want.

[markos82]

That evidence is anecdotal at best. I don't really think I have to try and disprove logic which is so shaky.

I can do dungeons, I prefer doing LFR. Such is my choice. The bonus loot is part of that, and I dont hate it, I just dont expect it.

Also, Blizz has said multiple times that MoP design isn't factoring in alts as they want to give you plenty to do on a single character with an alt as a bonus as opposed to a fully fledged second main.

They dont want you to play on alts yet they make achievement account wide, you get 50% more VP if you are have weekly cap on one character, your mounts are account wide, pets... everything + now you can have more more character/realm and yet they say we dont want you to play on alts? What they want is not important, important is what majority wants since players bring them $$$, without them they will have nothing and guess what players do play on alts.