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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by razski View Post
    Well, I lead a raiding guild and make sure the loot that drops, if useful, is distributed fairly.

    LFR on my druid, 6 weeks in a row, with nothing out of it is a huge waste of my time. And seeing as time is a valuable commodity, I would like to feel as though I actually get something out of it other than another week of extremely bad luck.

    I'm not complaining about not getting loot every week, I'm complaining that I've done LFR on my druid 6 weeks in a row and got one piece on the first week. Yet all around me I hear of people getting items every time they go, sometimes loot from almost every boss, most of the time, repeats of what they already have and it gets frustrating that I've not seriously had a single peice, at all, for 5 weeks (not counting the first week here because I did get an item).

    Where does the motivation come from to continue running LFR if you are seriously frustrated at taking a toon through that gets no loot, week, after week, after week, after week?

    And I'm not alone in this. Just because you've had good luck with drops, doesn't mean that everyone is happy with the current model.
    Oh god no, I haven't had good luck with drops at all. You should look at my boomkin. I started raiding right when LFR was available, every single week. Most of my gear is the valor badge items, a crafted staff that I made, some 389 items from the end quests for certain factions, and 3 or 4 blue items. I've gotten 2 pieces of tier gear, but mostly it's been gold, gold, gold. Yet my ilevel now is 377, and that's from doing OTHER things to get gear.

    Honestly, the motivation for raiding should always, first and foremost, be because you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, but you keep doing it in the hope that you'll receive some sort of reward...well, that's called a job. And it's not Blizzard's fault. Nobody should bang their heads against a wall because they believe they have to or are forced to. If you don't enjoy LFR just for the raiding aspect of it, and you've been having bad luck, and you just wanna throw in the towel...go ahead. Really, it's fine. If you don't enjoy doing massive amounts of dailys...you shouldn't do so.

    I enjoy the fights, even in LFR. They're still far easier than their normal level counterparts, but there's still a bit of excitement for me. And when I go back in the next week, and don't get Lei Shi's staff with the sha-touched gem socket for the second time in a row, even though that's the only thing I really want or need, even though it looks like 4 or 5 others have it, does it annoy me? Hell yeah, it does. But RNG is RNG. I know that eventually, I will get an upgrade.
    Last edited by TheWerebison; 2012-12-02 at 09:29 PM.
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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    YOU GET FREE GEAR.
    STOP COMPLAINING THAT YOU DON'T GET IT SOMETIMES.

    GO BACK ONE EXPANSION, YOU WEREN'T GETTING FREE EPICS FOR DOING NOTHING AT ALL. NOW YOU ARE.
    APPRECIATE IT, AND JUST STOP SOOKING.

    /rant over.

    Seriously over the amount of 'fixing' LFR. Which there doesn't need to be, at all.
    LFR shouldn't even give gear, just the experience, I don't see why they know best when it comes to loot distribution.
    If LFR didnt give any gear at all NO ONE would bother touching it, as it is I have gotten 1 item in 6 weeks of LFR and SHA combined .. 6 FUCKING WEEKS.

    Currently there is nothing to be gained by touching either LFR or SHA ever again, I can only beat myself with a stick before so long before I say fuck it and walk away. They took what was a raid system for people who didnt have the time to raid normally and turned it into a sleazy whore house of 28g joes, it's become a horrible and demeaning experience now.

    I personally wouldn't have an issue with RNG if it wasn't SET by Blizzard themselves, to much loot going out ... increase the odds of getting nothing, people burning through content to fast, increase the odds of getting nothing. The current RNG system is being dictated by the casino owners and it stinks of odds stacking in favor of the house.

  3. #143
    Weird, didn't even know there was some problem.

  4. #144
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWerebison View Post
    Oh my god. LFR loot does not HAVE problems. It doesn't NEED to be fixed. Holy shit, you're just upset because you're not winning shit. LFR - fuck that, ALL raiding - always had RNG. Just admit it, you don't like change. In DS LFR, like in normal raiding, random items from that boss' loot table would drop. That's random part one. And trust me, I had many, many times in which I didn't see a single piece drop for me. Then, the random rolls to see if you could get the items you wanted, if one was available, not to mention rolling against guildmates helping each other out and assclowns who need stuff to vendor it or just to see the trail of tears from the people who could've used it.

    There is NOTHING WRONG with our current LFR loot system. RNG is RNG. It's always been in LFR loot, it's just different, and BETTER now. Just because you don't see 4 pretty pictures of delicious gear appear on your screen now doesn't mean this way is bad. It doesn't mean your chances for getting gear are any worse. Christ, they've even given us a SECOND CHANCE at getting gear from bosses, and STILL people complain.

    This mentality is getting worse and worse every year that passes. Here's a basic rundown:

    Raiding
    "This is no good, we want easier epics" - introduce badges
    "This is no good, we want easier epics" - higher level badge gear gets easier to obtain with each new tier
    "This is no good, we want easier epics" - 5 mans can drop epics
    "This is no good, we want easier epics" - introduce LFR
    "This is no good, we want easier epics" - Blizzard gives you a second roll at LFR loot, that ALWAYS at least gives you money
    "This is no good, we want easier epics"

    It just goes on and on. You people are never satisfied. I don't even know anymore.
    This thread has a winner. I am not saying i want the Classic or TBC loot system back, but clearly whoever whines about the current system has never experienced the pain of the old system.
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    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    The reason for RNG is that it gives the player a feeling of always having a chance of loot, even if it's slim, knowing that you at least have a chance of getting something each run makes it more exciting. It's what gambling, and MMO's are more or less built up around.
    When the house gets to set the RNG factor the system can never work.

    Also LFR is never exciting ... EVER, the odds are so heavily stacked in Blizzards favor that getting loot is not determined by luck but by how generous Blizzard wants to be. Currently I have seen nothing but whore bags for the last 6 weeks, I simply took to deleting the horrid things.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 08:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    This thread has a winner. I am not saying i want the Classic or TBC loot system back, but clearly whoever whines about the current system has never experienced the pain of the old system.
    I experienced the old system from Classic .. thank fuck blizz got rid of it.

    TBC however was fine, nothing wrong with it at all. Then again I actually had time to raid in TBC.
    Last edited by Addiena; 2012-12-02 at 09:45 PM.

  6. #146
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    YOU GET FREE GEAR.
    STOP COMPLAINING THAT YOU DON'T GET IT SOMETIMES.

    GO BACK ONE EXPANSION, YOU WEREN'T GETTING FREE EPICS FOR DOING NOTHING AT ALL. NOW YOU ARE.
    APPRECIATE IT, AND JUST STOP SOOKING.

    /rant over.

    Seriously over the amount of 'fixing' LFR. Which there doesn't need to be, at all.
    LFR shouldn't even give gear, just the experience, I don't see why they know best when it comes to loot distribution.

    MY RANT IS NOT OVER: HEY ARSHOLE! STOP REFERRING TO THE LFR AS "FREE LOOT" AND AS "NOTHING"! MAYBE IN YOUR ELITIST SELFISH WOW WORLD IT IS, BUT FOR MANY OF US, THE LFR IS OUR ENTIRE WOW WORLD THESE DAYS! TAKE YOUR LOOT YOU GET FROM REAL RAIDING AND STICK IT UP YOUR ARS - MAYBE JUST YOU SHOULD GET NO LOOT BECAUSE YOU SELFISHLY BEGRUDGE OTHERS DESIRE TO GET IT! IF YOU CARE SO LITTLE ABOUT LFR, THEN GO AWAY TO ANOTHER FORUM POST - HOWEVER, IF YOU RUN LFR AND ARE HAPPY TO GET A SINGLE OF PIECE OF LOOT, THEN SHUT UP! YOU KNOW FULL WELL THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE LFR IS TO GET LOOT - OTHERWISE YOU WOULDN'T BE RUNNING IT AT ALL - YOU'D JUST BE DOING "REAL RAIDING"! OBVIOUSLY YOUR TOO GOOD AT WOW FOR US, WHO FIND THAT THE LFR AT LEAST TAKES TIME AND EFFORT, AND EXPECT THAT THE REWARDS COULD BETTER FIT THE EFFORT WE PUT FORTH!

    There, I can rant too. All these ridiculous points that say the lfr is "nothing", "requires no effort", "should not be about loot" or "should not drop loot at all" are adding nothing to threads like these. The reality is that for players like us that view the LFR as almost our entire WOW experience are saying that the low drop rate is demotivating, and making it feel like the current lfr system is ruining our part of wow, by making gear feel like a pipe-dream reward (keep working hard, and maybe someday you might get some epic gear). If your not in this position regarding lfr, then your opinion means nothing to this thread.

    If you get more 483 epic gear, who cares, your still going to want to replace it with 490+, I've said it many times before. This is not about you you. For us, this is our only hope to gear out to a 480 - 485 ilevel, which will likely be all we'll ever get to this patch, and we're feeling like its just not happening. With the reality of the current system, too many people are getting nothing or maybe just one unique usefull piece of gear (if they're lucky that week), and at that rate, our wow world will be killing the same 16 bosses week after week for 4 or 5 months on every single toon or alt we play on just to gear him up.

    Players who realize that they just don't have time or the interest in this grind are just going to end up quitting the game, meaning less money for Blizz to create the real raid content that your elitist selfish ars relies on to feel like your that much better players than us.

    Remember, if you raid for real, you have a chance to get loot from the lfr "and" from your real raiding. For many of us, on many of our toons at least, that's just not an option right now, because we don't have 100 hours to play the game every week.

    Please go away if you can't offer a constructive input on the current thread. You come accross as an elitist thread crasher!

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-02 at 03:45 PM ----------

    Ok, so a number of you see players who believe in threads like this as whiners and complainers who are asking for free gear. Well, whatever, we're not going to change your mind, and we really don't have to. Ok, to you we'll be "whiners and complainers who are asking for free gear", who cares. To us, and as Blizzard may come to see, we are actually a growing population of more casual wowers who are stating real frustrations over the current state of the game. All of us pay our $15 per month, just like you. If enough of our expectations from the game are higher than yours, than so be it. Our money talks too. Wow functions well because it sufficiently has entertained in the neighborhood of 10 million players, not 7 million, not 5 million, but 10 million, and that means that Blizzard has to make the game something different to many many different types of players in order to maintain the quality of the game.

    Its easy to say well maybe WOW or mmo's in general aren't for you, or just go play another type of game then. The reality is though, and Blizz is not dumb enough to ignore this fact, is that if wow had a mass exodus of players, that it would be really bad for the game. If the wow subscriber base dropped even a few million players, the quality of the game content would drop substantially. The reality is Blizz has to find something to satisfy many different subpopulations of players, especially when that subpopulation keeps growing every week, as as the people fed up and frustrated with the low loot drop chance of the lfr. Whether you choose to bitch, complain, or even ignore us, Blizzard can't continue to, especially if our numbers keep growing as more and more players become disillusioned with the lfr. There are a number of people who may have quit wow already if the lfr didn't come along when it did, and if the lfr becomes an insignificant progression step, or even just a means of seeing end game content, at best, players may play a few extra weeks to complete the lfr, and then unsubscribe until the next tier of lfr launches. I don't think Blizzard wants this, so thay have to make the lfr significantly rewarding for at least 8 to 12 weeks, to ensure we all keep playing for at least the vast majority of the tier.

    Blizzard can't afford to continue to see loot drops in the lfr as just a bonus reward chance, and not a significant part of rewarding wow content, as there are a large number of players now that only do the lfr (i.e. no higher tier raiding) on all, or at least most of their characters. As more and more of the player base join the subpopulation of players saying they aren't finding the lfr significantly rewarding, Blizzard will have to address it as a real problem, or the dreaded mass exodus of wow players Blizz has managed to avoid will become a risk. Mass exodus breeds negative publicity and feelings about the game, which increases the risk of further mass exodus. If you think wow is perfect as it is today, great, but we'll see if you say that after wow loses a few million subscribers!

  7. #147
    Ready for a mindblowingly awesome idea that would "fix" LFR for good.

    Make the hidden loot roll visible.

    ie. when a boss drops the entire raid gets a roll of 1-100 and anyone who gets 85+ gets loot.

    Otherwise the loot system stays identical.

  8. #148
    no need to fix what's not broken. lfr loot is perfectly fine.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Gniral View Post
    no need to fix what's not broken. lfr loot is perfectly fine.
    That's essentially what I said. Although seeing the hidden roll would help it feel less like you are just not getting loot for weeks on end.

    You should be able to see just how crappy your luck is.

  10. #150
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    LFR Loot distribution is fine.
    players just pissed they cant need on stuff and trade between each other.

  11. #151
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    MY RANT IS NOT OVER: HEY ARSHOLE! STOP REFERRING TO THE LFR AS "FREE LOOT" AND AS "NOTHING"! MAYBE IN YOUR ELITIST SELFISH WOW WORLD IT IS, BUT FOR MANY OF US, THE LFR IS OUR ENTIRE WOW WORLD THESE DAYS! TAKE YOUR LOOT YOU GET FROM REAL RAIDING AND STICK IT UP YOUR ARS - MAYBE JUST YOU SHOULD GET NO LOOT BECAUSE YOU SELFISHLY BEGRUDGE OTHERS DESIRE TO GET IT! IF YOU CARE SO LITTLE ABOUT LFR, THEN GO AWAY TO ANOTHER FORUM POST - HOWEVER, IF YOU RUN LFR AND ARE HAPPY TO GET A SINGLE OF PIECE OF LOOT, THEN SHUT UP! YOU KNOW FULL WELL THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE LFR IS TO GET LOOT - OTHERWISE YOU WOULDN'T BE RUNNING IT AT ALL - YOU'D JUST BE DOING "REAL RAIDING"! OBVIOUSLY YOUR TOO GOOD AT WOW FOR US, WHO FIND THAT THE LFR AT LEAST TAKES TIME AND EFFORT, AND EXPECT THAT THE REWARDS COULD BETTER FIT THE EFFORT WE PUT FORTH!
    Amen!

    I've been asking in multiple MMOs for years for a concept like this, as putting a raid together is such a CHORE.

    Folks like to raid. They will raid even more if the process of raiding wasn't so time consuming to form.

    The biggest problem with LFR is it's spot in the raid hierarchy. As long as it's in between heroic dungeons and normal raiding, it's going to cause Blizzard and the community so much backbiting headaches, because traditionally raiders are snobs. I wish devs would have a backbone and finally put their foot down on this 10% population that has RUINED too many MMOs. Raiding is fine, but the projection of "you guys are welfare queens" is that...because raiding IS about welfare any way it's sliced. People aren't getting the gear themselves, they rely on the community to make it possible.

    Raiding isn't about the individual it's about a community that can even support it. On realms without enough players (or good enough players) LFR is their ONLY method to raid (or with any success). Any copouts to pay to transfer are moot, as people aren't going to fork over that much money to move, almost every expansion as the demographics change.

    LFR is a solution to many problems, but it needs to be expanded to work in normal/heroics for the concept to survive without these headaches. It must have equal footing (can split it into easy/normal/hard segments) or it will be subjected to endless abuse by snobs -- the same that poisoned the well in too many MMOs.

    LFR is a beautiful tool, use it well.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhinkis View Post
    Threads with brilliant ideas usually don't come with a title stating that it's a brilliant idea.

    Especialy not when the OP is the one with the idea.
    I find this to be very true.

    OP: Your idea would make LFR into another boring, predictable grind. The Badge of Justice system introduded in TBC (changed into emblems, points etc. during the years) is to reward players even if they aren't lucky. Nevertheless, RNG is a great part of the game, makes it interesting, unpredictable and hence enjoyable. Making more of the game into a grind for points is a very bad idea in my opinion.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Raiding isn't about the individual it's about a community that can even support it. On realms without enough players (or good enough players) LFR is their ONLY method to raid (or with any success). Any copouts to pay to transfer are moot, as people aren't going to fork over that much money to move, almost every expansion as the demographics change.
    So they are happy to continue to pay 15$ a month to play on a dead server but not fork out $20 once every 2 years to transfer to a better one?

    ... and we are supposed to respect this logic?

  14. #154
    Well i would more like the fact the you get some % on chance. So you start with some small % of getting item, like 10% ( from each boss ). When you kill boss and dont get item, chance get to 20% and so on... So next week you have 20% chance for item, if you dont get anything next week it will be 30%... When you get the item, that % resets to 10% again. Also loot filter keeps an eye on items/gear you got so you cant get same item 2x, only if its weapon and for class that can you 2 weapons....

  15. #155
    I will tell you the solution to LFR loot problems:

    Ditch LFR and give players the loot they want from each boss once a week with a separate Get Loot UI.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Well i would more like the fact the you get some % on chance. So you start with some small % of getting item, like 10% ( from each boss ). When you kill boss and dont get item, chance get to 20% and so on... So next week you have 20% chance for item, if you dont get anything next week it will be 30%... When you get the item, that % resets to 10% again. Also loot filter keeps an eye on items/gear you got so you cant get same item 2x, only if its weapon and for class that can you 2 weapons....
    This follows the idea that you somehow deserve loot for doing LFR.

    Let's put that baby to rest. You don't.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    This follows the idea that you somehow deserve loot for doing LFR.

    Let's put that baby to rest. You don't.
    Well doing normal raids implicates you are doing it for loot, or to have fun ( in that case dont ever take any loot ),right.. Im doing lfr to gear alts or OS so yeah that does implicates that doing LFR i deserve some loot the more im doing it, same concept as DKP!!!!

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Well doing normal raids implicates you are doing it for loot, or to have fun ( in that case dont ever take any loot ),right.. Im doing lfr to gear alts or OS so yeah that does implicates that doing LFR i deserve some loot the more im doing it, same concept as DKP!!!!
    Firstly, you should try to use words you know how to use correctly instead of acting smart and saying implicates instead of implies.

    Normal raids are for progression, which includes loot, because they are a difficult experience which requires cooperation and prior planning.

    LFR is something you queue for and then faceroll in order to see what the bosses look like and get some watered-down idea of their mechanics.

    LFR has never been intended as a place for you to gear up regularly, it is a bonus for people who wouldn't otherwise get to participate in raid content.

    Just because you use it for gear doesn't make that it's intended purpose - much like if you wear your shoe as a hat, it might work but it's not recommended.

    So no, you deserve nothing. Take your valor points and be happy if you end up with a bonus.

  19. #159
    Brewmaster Pejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Well doing normal raids implicates you are doing it for loot, or to have fun ( in that case dont ever take any loot ),right.. Im doing lfr to gear alts or OS so yeah that does implicates that doing LFR i deserve some loot the more im doing it, same concept as DKP!!!!
    Adding onto Luciferiuz's post, you're forgetting one key part of DKP: You can only spend DKP if your piece drops which has a set %. LFR also has a set %, and guess what, if it drops for ya (you win your roll), you get it. Just because you have 1000 dkp, it doesn't mean you get a piece of gear - the gear needs to drop first.

  20. #160
    Still not sure what the issue is that people have with LFR. For those that raided normals/heroics in the past, did you get a piece of gear every week without fail? I know I never did. And I didn't even get a bag full of gold for my trouble each boss kill.The only thing I think needs to happen to make it perfect as it is right now is that Blizzard needs to make the loot rolls transparent. Let everyone see what everyone else rolled, who got loot, and what they got. Maybe then people will stop complaining, because whether you think so or not, you don't get loot any faster or slower than you did in the old LFR loot system, or even current normals/heroic raids.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

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