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  1. #381
    The Patient
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    I will throw this out there then, for you, and for all others interested in the debate.

    If you knew (i.e. there was statistical evidence to support it) that the LFR would have to become a better source of loot for casuals in order to stay strong, or even survive for the long term, would you consider supporting a better drop rate or one of the other ideas? Or consequently, would you say that the LFR should die if that's the only thing that would save it? I'm just wondering how many would be in support of their ideas if they knew that the future of the LFR depended on it?

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    I will throw this out there then, for you, and for all others interested in the debate.

    If you knew (i.e. there was statistical evidence to support it) that the LFR would have to become a better source of loot for casuals in order to stay strong, or even survive for the long term, would you consider supporting a better drop rate or one of the other ideas? Or consequently, would you say that the LFR should die if that's the only thing that would save it? I'm just wondering how many would be in support of their ideas if they knew that the future of the LFR depended on it?
    Well this is a loaded question.

    If there was concise evidence that the current LFR system would lead to a loss of subs in excess of 1 million users then I would say change it.

    But realistically, if more loot from LFR is what over a 10th of the playerbase needs in order to be interested - then I'm obviously playing this game for different reasons than most people.

    I'd also support this if the gap between LFR gear and raid gear were higher, since I don't believe getting an "LFR set" should be a requirement for competitive raiding and we are too close to that as it is.

  3. #383
    We should go back to the old system.

    Taking guildies = Requires effort and communication = Therefore more reward

  4. #384
    Mechagnome Kagdar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razski View Post
    There is a small difference with not getting loot for a couple of weeks, and not getting loot for 6+ weeks.
    Mail bracers from Ulduar on my shamy... never seen them drop during all the time it was current content. A lot of ppl i know have similar stories about various loot from vanilla raids too. There was no LFR in either of those time.

    Rng is rng.
    Quote Originally Posted by JonLajoie
    Are you tired of focusing your time and energy on projects and activities without seeing any positive results? Try…not giving a f*ck!!
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    Not giving a f*ck is awwwesome.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagdar View Post
    Mail bracers from Ulduar on my shamy... never seen them drop during all the time it was current content. A lot of ppl i know have similar stories about various loot from vanilla raids too. There was no LFR in either of those time.

    Rng is rng.
    Yeah my mage never got an epic offhand in Wrath until the ZA patch. Everything else was top tier, just no offhands.

  6. #386
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    I will throw this out there then, for you, and for all others interested in the debate.

    If you knew (i.e. there was statistical evidence to support it) that the LFR would have to become a better source of loot for casuals in order to stay strong, or even survive for the long term, would you consider supporting a better drop rate or one of the other ideas? Or consequently, would you say that the LFR should die if that's the only thing that would save it? I'm just wondering how many would be in support of their ideas if they knew that the future of the LFR depended on it?
    LFR basically saved 25mans (which was on the decline before LFR), so it's not going away. It may also be the only way to save participation in normal/heroic raids too. That's because of the royal pain of manually getting a raid together.

    If the population wants the gear their way -- even if it conflicts with Blizzard's loot philosophy -- Blizzard really only has two choices: adapt or live by the consequences (this is true with any feature in the game).

    It's the gamers who decide in the end, so use the power well.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    It may also be the only way to save participation in normal/heroic raids too.
    I don't agree with this at all.

  8. #388
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthas View Post
    LOL, who he heck are you, and whats it to you if I get my twinkies or not? Maybe Blizzard giving an extra twinkie every now and again might be what saves wow - how do you know it won't be
    But you are assuming wow needs 'saved'.. newsflash, if everyone of us that read this thread, everyone that posted in it all suddenly quit tomorrow... Wow would continue without the blink of an eye. Thats how much value you individually have.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  9. #389
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    I don't agree with this at all.
    Won't matter. Because if that's the trend gamers want in WoW, it will be.

    It's called the power of the pocket book, and businesses understand it very well.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 10:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    But you are assuming wow needs 'saved'.. newsflash, if everyone of us that read this thread, everyone that posted in it all suddenly quit tomorrow... Wow would continue without the blink of an eye. Thats how much value you individually have.
    That was the belief SOE had when EQ2 was the largest MMO, when players revolted.

    25k subs today later, it's a lesson to not piss the individuals off.
    Last edited by Kevyne-Shandris; 2012-12-06 at 03:04 AM.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  10. #390
    People won't be happy until they can get all the gear they want instantly and for free from a vendor that appears in front of them when they log in and get the perfect stats from each item.

  11. #391
    I wish i could downvote this thread

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Won't matter. Because if that's the trend gamers want in WoW, it will be.

    It's called the power of the pocket book, and businesses understand it very well.
    No I meant that I don't agree with your assumption that LFR may be the way to save participation in normal/heroic raids. This game will have raiders until the day it dies, even if they removed LFR today.

    I agree that consumers can dictate the changes the game will go through to a certain extent, but not really on the scale you are implying. Otherwise there wouldn't be heroic modes since so few of the population gets to experience them.

    Also, let's not bring SoE into this as if they are an intelligent company. Haven't they ruined like 4 mmos by now?

  13. #393
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    No I meant that I don't agree with your assumption that LFR may be the way to save participation in normal/heroic raids. This game will have raiders until the day it dies, even if they removed LFR today.
    It can, but not at the rates that would justify spending the extra time and dime on.

    Just like on my realm. One of the largest guilds on the server can't even get their team to login on raid night. All those players and they can't even fill a 10 man. They're not even listed on Wowprogress with one boss down, yet. Most of the guilds on Shandris aren't raiding at all, and it's been plenty of time to gear out in even rep gear.

    So, yeah, even normal/heroic raids are having problems getting enough players.

    The guild system killed the raid system in the end.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  14. #394
    The system needs a way to remember what drops it rewarded the player, otherwise I am never going to stop winning the same ring and back every other week. Nothing worse then a Boss with 4 possible upgrades rewarding you withe the same one every other week. Cape of Three Lanterns x3 to date and Light of the Cosmos x3 is just a waste.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Just like on my realm. One of the largest guilds on the server can't even get their team to login on raid night. All those players and they can't even fill a 10 man. They're not even listed on Wowprogress with one boss down, yet. Most of the guilds on Shandris aren't raiding at all, and it's been plenty of time to gear out in even rep gear.
    You'll have to excuse me if I don't take anecdotal evidence about one backwater server as an indication of a fundamental problem.

  16. #396
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    You'll have to excuse me if I don't take anecdotal evidence
    Want proof?

    http://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

    73 out of 246 servers are worse (1/3 of ALL WoW realms).

    And Blackrock is only #14 these days, having fallen royally from WotLK days, where it's not even meets a top ten server anymore in raid progression.

    And this is with ReadID and Battletags now, too.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  17. #397
    Blademaster Wheatley's Avatar
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    I like this new system, getting loot in LFR now depends only on just you being there, no one else can steal your loot, although RNG can be a bitch sometimes I'd prefer random over Jeff who needs it for his off spec with full heroic gear stealing your gear or guilds entering LFR in a group to need on loot for others then trading it if they win it.

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