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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    A patch as big as an expansion... soo.. new region anyone?

    Part of Cantha? Ring of Fire? Isle of Janthir? Crystal Desert?
    Seems like someone is on my side when it comes to regions. I really want to visit Isle of Janthir/Crystal Desert.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    So are the content patches of other MMOs.
    It depends on what other mmorpgs. For sub based games they certainly are not free

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    It depends on what other mmorpgs. For sub based games they certainly are not free
    Content patches are generally free in sub MMOs. Players are not charged an extra $5 for patch 1.11 or whatever in SWTOR, WOW, Rift, TSW, etc. Sub fee isn't patch fee.

    A sub based game charges for access to the server. The game and all that comes with it is yours once paid. For example, you can and will receive patch 2.0 when you launch Rift. You may not play unless you have a free account or a sub.

    Access is paid by sub. Not patches.

  4. #24
    Well spin it how you want but you are paying for that content with a subscription. They aren't free for you to play.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Well spin it how you want but you are paying for that content with a subscription. They aren't free for you to play.
    There is no spin. One can dl and load the patch of a sub based MMO without extra charge. You do not have access to the server without a subscription. That is exactly how sub based MMOs have functioned since 1999.

    It is flatly incorrect to say TSW or Rift are charging you for a content patch. Because they are not. They are charging for server access.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Well spin it how you want but you are paying for that content with a subscription. They aren't free for you to play.
    You pay for access to the game. Any MMO out there patches content because they want to keep you playing. More playing may mean more subs, it may mean more people playing which means more people use the cash shop. Full servers and happy people refer friends to fill them up, whether it's a F2P or P2P model.

    But no one pays ISK, Cartel Coins, or 480 microsoft points to install an mmo content patch these days. Only for the server access (if applicable), whether the patch happened or not.

    If Blizzard called 4.1 a "mini expansion", the backlash would have been worse (even labelling it as a "major content patch" was a slap in the face). Why does ArenaNet get a free pass? "Because you aren't paying for it?"

    Sitting in a local diner, I may not pay my server anywhere near what's expected at a ritzy reservation-only place. But for me to take shitty service from her because "I'm not paying for it" is disrespectful to any customer there.
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  7. #27
    Well whatever, paying money is paying money in whatever language you speak

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Well whatever, paying money is paying money in whatever language you speak
    Granted. However, what you are paying for is another matter entirely. A fact consistent across many business and services.

    It is simply disingenuous to say, "these updates are free!" vis-a-vis many other MMOs be they f2p, hybrid and sub based. Because players are not expressly paying per patch in the majority of mainstream MMOs on the market.

    Just as one bristles when GW2 is called "f2p", so too should you be adamant that patches are no more free in GW2 than in other MMOs with differing models of business.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Well whatever, paying money is paying money in whatever language you speak
    Yet it's irrelevant to the actual idea of patching.

    Is that the only reason you're playing GW2? Fear of a subscription fee that irrationally makes every sub based game the bad guys out to get you?
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  10. #30
    Is that the only reason you're playing GW2? Fear of a subscription fee that irrationally makes every sub based game the bad guys out to get you?
    It probably is fair to say many do play F2P or B2P games due to the sub fee's innate barrier to entry. A portion of such players probably would say they didn't feel they were getting the value of their sub too.

    Personally speaking, I don't mind sub fees but it definitely can be more than some can or are willing to spend monthly. As to value per dollar, I can honestly say I unsubbed specifically because I felt some MMOs were not worth the leasing fee; The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Tera.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-12-02 at 09:50 PM. Reason: typo

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    One thing Colin said in the article:

    "....more people who purchased the game so far since it came out than any of the numbers we expected."


    Back in April, 3.12 million CD sales in 2012 were projected by Daewoo Securities.

    http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/15...hmentId=155585


    I think it's safe to say they've exceeded 3 million in sales
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  12. #32
    Is that the only reason you're playing GW2?
    I've asked that before. "But it's freeeeeee...." seems to be the justification for a ton of things on this and other boards.

    One thing Colin said in the article:

    "....more people who purchased the game so far since it came out than any of the numbers we expected."
    Sure, he's paid to say good things. He's certainly not going to say something negative.

    I think it's safe to say they've exceeded 3 million in sales
    You'd think they'd be excited to share actual numbers, then.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Yet it's irrelevant to the actual idea of patching.

    Is that the only reason you're playing GW2? Fear of a subscription fee that irrationally makes every sub based game the bad guys out to get you?
    Yes, it's the only reason why I'm playing GW2

    Don't chase after windmills dude

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire Fernling306's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    One thing Colin said in the article:

    "....more people who purchased the game so far since it came out than any of the numbers we expected."


    Back in April, 3.12 million CD sales in 2012 were projected by Daewoo Securities.

    http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/15...hmentId=155585


    I think it's safe to say they've exceeded 3 million in sales
    I think you are over thinking that a bit. First off, the "we" could mean an internal goal/expectation that the devs came up with. I don't think Colin would say "we" and mean himself and Daewoo securities. They didn't have any problem posting previous sales, if they hit 3 million they would likely do the exact same.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Yet it's irrelevant to the actual idea of patching.

    Is that the only reason you're playing GW2? Fear of a subscription fee that irrationally makes every sub based game the bad guys out to get you?
    Or how about a subscription based game makes you pay for the game you already bought continuously until you quit? Guild Wars 2 is a one time fee all access game. Subs games are a pay once, then pay forever if you wish to play. It doesn't matter what the specific fee is for. The fact is you have to pay it. The fact is with Guild Wars 2 you don't. It's undesirable to pay a sub for alot of underlined reasons that have been beaten to death.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Please justify how a small island about half as big as a starter zone with very little interesting dynamic events and nothing else to do on it is a "mini expansion".
    The thing is, "expansion" is an arbitrary thing, it has no inherent definition for size. It expanded the game, and it was "mini" by their standards, so technically it's fine, but really it's just marketing hyperbole. Like when some website called TOR's rakghul event a "dynamic event" and folks argued over the definition...

    Either way, we can safely assume that either of these "nearly an expansion" patchs will be say, twice as big as Lost Isle? So a full sized zone perhaps. Hopefully with more to do.

    As for the Island itself, it was obvious they'd planned on expanding it, there's even an Asura Gate being built, so hopefully something interesting pops up. I think GW2's strength is in building a world to play in, and having the world evolve and develop consistently is a bonus.

  17. #37
    As for the Island itself, it was obvious they'd planned on expanding it
    Talking as currently. An almost empty island doesn't count towards a "mini expansion". The content planned for it later is exactly that, for later not now which is the main gripe of this island as its not equivilant to Orr at all.

    Also the main woo over the whole mini expansion is its just sugar coating. Every other game pumps out more or the same amount in the course of a month or 3 and its a content patch. Why does Anet have to call it a mini expansion. Its a content patch with an empty island and a new dungeon not a mini expansion.

    If they count the one time event part of the mini expansion well thats just fucked up.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Talking as currently. An almost empty island doesn't count towards a "mini expansion". The content planned for it later is exactly that, for later not now which is the main gripe of this island as its not equivilant to Orr at all.
    Well, yeah, that's why the part you snipped was talking about "so hopefully something interesting pops up." because currently it's not interesting. (Though I did like the one-time event, if it was just too long.)

    And again, my point was that there is no definition of "expansion" as some set amount of content. Yeah, we know what some other MMO's have done, but I've bought too many FPS "expansions" that were utter crap to give the word actual meaning to me.

    Also the main woo over the whole mini expansion is its just sugar coating. Every other game pumps out more or the same amount in the course of a month or 3 and its a content patch. Why does Anet have to call it a mini expansion. Its a content patch with an empty island and a new dungeon not a mini expansion.

    If they count the one time event part of the mini expansion well thats just fucked up.
    IIRC, they didn't advertise a mini-expansion, it was just some dev talking about it as such, thus why I said "marketing hyperbole".

    My point is, the phrase doesn't mean anything, so arguing over whether it's enough to be a "mini-expansion" or "content patch" or whatever arbitrary phrase someone wants to assign to it is meaningless. Debating whether the patches cost money in a sub-based game is also totally besides the point, really. I'd think we could discuss the actual content of the interview rather than arguing semantics?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Yes, it's the only reason why I'm playing GW2

    Don't chase after windmills dude
    But it's the only argument you've actually brought to the case dude. "But you're not paying for it!" Or would you care to expand on your position? Because I may infact be missing something here, as is oft the case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kasere
    Or how about a subscription based game makes you pay for the game you already bought continuously until you quit? Guild Wars 2 is a one time fee all access game. Subs games are a pay once, then pay forever if you wish to play. It doesn't matter what the specific fee is for. The fact is you have to pay it. The fact is with Guild Wars 2 you don't. It's undesirable to pay a sub for alot of underlined reasons that have been beaten to death.
    Irrelevant to the point at hand. Other games, sub-based or not, do not charge for Content Patches. If you're paying a sub-fee for the game, or not, you don't find a bill added to your account because patch 13.7 went out. In some Free-To-Play games, you may be charged a fee to access some of the features of a patch, but again not for the patch itself going live.

    Doozerjun was arguing that because Guild Wars 2 doesn't charge for patches (uhh, most MMOs don't, true story), that it's totally okay to call something like Fractals and lolsunshineisland (Thanks for that, Fencers.) a major content update or a "mini-expansion". So an "expansion's worth of content" that's coming out, is going to be how big? Considering the precedent already set by ArenaNet themselves, we really shouldn't be too excited. "But amg it's free" doesn't really apply here.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-12-03 at 01:25 AM.
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  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    So because you see it differently it's bullshit?, remember to inform that it's your opinion and not a fact.
    Now I absolutely LOVE the new zone, the new instance, the new sPvP map and pretty much everything from the patch (ascended gear is neutral with me) an I gotta agree with fencers, was it a lot of content for a patch? Absolutely, but I'd hardly call it a mini expansion, it's just propaganda.

    That being said I'm fucking psyched for the new patches if they're adding more the karka patch!!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

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