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  1. #1

    [General] Any clarification on which spec is gonna be FotM after the fire nerf?

    I want to know which spec will do the most damage in raid environment. Arcane? Frost? Or fire will stand as a king even after these powerful nerfs?

    Trolls with nothing constructive to say (like "haha mages got nerfed lolz"), steer clear from this thread please.
    Last edited by Sephrie; 2012-12-02 at 01:34 PM.

  2. #2
    We have to wait for this reset after most of the mage community tries out different specs

    I m going to try fire and compare to last week and then decide...

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    It seems as though it's Arcane > Frost > Fire at the moment, though movement might put Frost ahead of Arcane - totally unsure on that one yet. The next week of raiding will show.

  4. #4
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    I am in a bit of a pickle. I am Frost right now, but being a raid leader too, it may not be the best idea to have a "busy" spec while watching the raid and calling stuff out. So as Arcane I might actually pull slightly more. Probs will have to do some testing.
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  5. #5
    My mage has been my main since 2005 and was stabled recently due to me changing class, but i do still play it in LFR and stuff to keep myself up to date should i return to using it as main again later.

    So.
    Fire took a huge dive. I'm only at 471 and im having issues beeing comptetitive at all. Tried Frost. Did ok, but like the above poster said, its a busy spec to play.
    Arcane is certainly more interesting than what it was in Cata so it might actually be my preferred one.

  6. #6
    Arcane is certainly more interesting than what it was in Cata so it might actually be my preferred one.
    Is it really? I thought it was dumbed down a little as it now has only 1 aspect that cata arcane had (burn/conserve). Maybe I'll give arcane a shot after all... If only I had some gear with more mastery :/ Now almost everything I have has crit on it, it hurts when I want to change spec.

  7. #7
    Well Cata was all about burn/conserve with 2 main spells. Blast and Missiles. Now you add bomb and barrage to the equation. You can still have the burn phase if you choose Invocation. I have not played this spec alot this expansion tho so i'm not the one who should give advice and stuff on it.
    I'm just saying i found it more interesting this expansion and don't mind using it as long as it's competitive or even THE spec.

    Fire was fun but they ruined it. Don't care about the combust nerf but the critnerf just broke it.

    About gear, you can get a few good mastery pieces from rep i think. Its where i found my masterygear for my lock..
    Don't know what ilvl you're on but the spelltwister gloves and robe got both mastery on them.

  8. #8
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    I am in a bit of a pickle. I am Frost right now, but being a raid leader too, it may not be the best idea to have a "busy" spec while watching the raid and calling stuff out. So as Arcane I might actually pull slightly more. Probs will have to do some testing.
    It's about how much practice you have. I'm also raid leading and I've played Arcane, Fire and Frost in raids - it took some getting used to to raid leading as Fire (for instance, popping Combustion in random moments because when I played Arcane something else was on that button). As Frost you just need one addon like Needtoknow to monitor your Bomb, Pet Freeze and Frozen Orb so if you prefer Frost over Arcane it should in no way be complicated to raid lead. If you want to do competitive damage as Arcane, you won't be able to raid lead unless you have a lot of experience because currently there is no rotation you can follow.

    It all gets even more complicated when you try to monitor your procs to do stuff while they're up. But still, if you won't play Fire, I'd go with Frost in your case.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    It's about how much practice you have. I'm also raid leading and I've played Arcane, Fire and Frost in raids - it took some getting used to to raid leading as Fire (for instance, popping Combustion in random moments because when I played Arcane something else was on that button). As Frost you just need one addon like Needtoknow to monitor your Bomb, Pet Freeze and Frozen Orb so if you prefer Frost over Arcane it should in no way be complicated to raid lead. If you want to do competitive damage as Arcane, you won't be able to raid lead unless you have a lot of experience because currently there is no rotation you can follow.

    It all gets even more complicated when you try to monitor your procs to do stuff while they're up. But still, if you won't play Fire, I'd go with Frost in your case.
    "currently, there is no rotation you can follow" says the arcane mage. If you want to do competetive damage as frost, you have to track a lot more stuff than as arcane, especially if you try to top meters on some fights.

    "As Frost you just need one addon like Needtoknow to monitor your Bomb, Pet Freeze and Frozen Orb"

    Please stop giving advices for frost, immediately!

  10. #10
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Erm. the only possible complication when playing Frost is perfecting using Alter Time when you have 20 things active at the same time. As I said, I like it's playstyle and it's totally fun and dynamic, but you can't tell me that it's in any way complicated.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Erm. the only possible complication when playing Frost is perfecting using Alter Time when you have 20 things active at the same time. As I said, I like it's playstyle and it's totally fun and dynamic, but you can't tell me that it's in any way complicated.
    Well, it's like that with almost every spec in the game Keep some dots up, use some stuff on cd, use something when it procs... The thing that makes difference between good and bad players is keeping track of all those little details, like for example using alter time in perfect moment. In my opinion raid leading while also maximizing your dps shouldn't be a problem in any spec, you just need a bit of practice to get your rotation "automatized" in your brain, so during phases of high focus (like super-hard-touhou-style-evading-phase) still keep your optimal dps rotation up while also leading the raid.

    But the question still stands. Assuming you know the spec perfectly, you min/max and you have appropriate gear, which spec will be the best after recent changes?
    Last edited by Sephrie; 2012-12-02 at 01:43 PM.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord
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    If you play like: Tracking only 1 buff, 2 cooldowns, releasing procs immediately and evocate as soon as the buff expire, then yes! maybe its "it is not very complicated"

  13. #13
    Frost is by far the more spontaneous spec out of the 3. Also imo it needs a lot more planning than you think, lining up a good rotation plan (yes ok it is more rng than arcane on single targets) is essential to frost burst phases with AT, IV, procs and blabla.....
    As arcane All you need to do is keep mana at 100%(did i say need? just stand in the white stuff...no worries), use Am with the highest AC stack as possible, unless you get 2nd AM early, try and refresh bomb after using last AM on max AC stack for another AM proc...rest is easy.
    So frost requires much much more attention than arcane and if you're raid leading and managing an optimum frost output then i take my hat of to you sir.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciros View Post
    Frost is by far the more spontaneous spec out of the 3. Also imo it needs a lot more planning than you think, lining up a good rotation plan (yes ok it is more rng than arcane on single targets) is essential to frost burst phases with AT, IV, procs and blabla.....
    As arcane All you need to do is keep mana at 100%(did i say need? just stand in the white stuff...no worries), use Am with the highest AC stack as possible, unless you get 2nd AM early, try and refresh bomb after using last AM on max AC stack for another AM proc...rest is easy.
    So frost requires much much more attention than arcane and if you're raid leading and managing an optimum frost output then i take my hat of to you sir.
    Nothing else to say : )
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-12-02 at 02:35 PM.

  15. #15
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciros View Post
    So frost requires much much more attention than arcane and if you're raid leading and managing an optimum frost output then i take my hat of to you sir.
    Only tanks should raid lead, tanking is by far the easiest role in a raid/dungeon. Frost is easier to play right than Mists Arcane, only Cataclysm Arcane was way easier.

  16. #16
    Anyone tested this already? What's the state of mages right now? If to believe simcraft, fire is on the bottom and arcane/frost in on top of dps charts atm, though no idea if this is reliable. Any top guilds here who've done their theorycrafting/testing?

  17. #17
    For anyone interested, one of Method's mages is a pretty consistent streamer and he's streaming ToES right now. He's currently arcane (with a heavy haste reforge/gem setup) while the other mages are playing fire. May be worth tuning in to see how the numbers turn out. If you're interested.

    EDIT: Also note that they do their alt run at the same time, so in between fights you'll see him playing warlock.
    Last edited by Flogre; 2012-12-02 at 06:50 PM.

  18. #18

  19. #19
    If you're like me, you don't have any arcane gear at all. Frost will be better than arcane until you pick up some gear with mastery and haste on it.

  20. #20
    I am really hoping it isn't arcane, I know a lot of people are praising arcane for being more interesting but I just don't see it, arcane's complexity was in the playstyle rather than having a lot of buttons and I thought that worked quite well because it made it different. MOP frost also bores me though, getting those massive deep freezes really made me fall in love with frost PvE in dragonsoul. I have a strong feeling that arcane is going to theoretically be the best spec but frost will pull ahead due to its mobility. Then mext tier fire will be back on top due to how well fire scales

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