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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfster View Post
    so BM can beat surv on AoE with a 5 min CD? and other than that?
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. BM AoE is better than SV AoE....when you blow all your CDs on it, so only for a few seconds every 5 minutes...
    For sure I'm going to blow all CDs on wind lord heroic adds just to see I have nothing up for the 600% increased dmg phase LOL

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by lolipopp View Post
    SNIP
    I'm sorry, I have to say this, you need to start using the 'Spellcheck' feature (That big squiggly red line that is probably covering half your post as you type them). I really hate being a 'Grammar Nazi' but I just HAVE to say something here, it's atrocious.

    On to my main point, and that is... If you openly acknowledge that BM is still pulling ahead because the Top players are still playing it and they will continue to play it for the remainder of this Tier. Why on earth are you harping on about "BM is Dead, Long live Surv the King of Specs"?

    BM is not dead, it is ahead (Single-Target at least) regardless of Tier Bonuses and MAYBE if in the next Tier Agi scales enough that SV is ahead in both AOE and Single Target, then we can safely say that SV is "King" (Or at least until some form of Hotfix if they bother)... However for now, BM is ahead, SV is not "King" and this entire thread is just bollocks.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    I don't get the hate towards BM.

    I mean, it's the top spec for two patches / 1 tier, and people already say BM is the FOTM crap, Surv is the King, while Surv was the OP spec in Cata. Really hypocritical players out there.

    And what's the fuss of saying BM is easy? We have so many CDs atm to watch out for and when to use them. Maybe another spec is a bit harder, but it doesn't mean Hunters are hard.
    Really, why so much hate? I would be pretty much on the same level if I hoped Surv and MMS will never be good, so the true king of Hunters shall rule the class... -.-
    BM is *all* CDs. It's literally whack-a-mole with fluctuations depending on how you whack-that-mole. To heroic progression raiders, it isn't very fun (IMO) because we generally don't have problems hitting the CDs when we need to, and there's very little larger-scale thought or planning put into it. For SV (and to a much larger extent MM) you have a cyclical nature in how you shoot based around the 24s BA CD and the 9s CS CD, and you have to be thinking ahead to plan your outgoing focus. It's a meta game in and of itself. Granted SV is dumbed down considerably now due to ES spam during LnL and AS not munching LnL, but it used to be a much more rhythmic spec.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlaena View Post
    BM is a spec designed for Wrath Babies, those who enjoy fishing, and Apple Mac users.

    Sadly it is still top single-target.
    Funny, since the whole having a good, strong pet was the whole point I rolled a Hunter.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assumi View Post
    Funny, since the whole having a good, strong pet was the whole point I rolled a Hunter.
    Basically this. Will never understand the hatred towards BM. I love it, and have been this spec since I started playing. I do feel slightly overwhelmed by all of the CD's we have now, but it's alright. The OP's burning hatred for one spec is quite astounding, really. I don't quite understand what he's so worked up about. So BM is on top right now, so what? Love the "kids who collect spirit beasts will sit in a corner and show off in Org once the other two specs are ahead like they 'should be'" part btw. Comedy gold.

    /eyeroll
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post

    That's actually funny, since Surv was worthless prior to Wotlk....
    I thought it was a viable DPS spec with a Wind Serpent at a certain gear point? No?

    I didn't know Survival had worth in Wotlk, everything I heard was about BM in 3.0.8 or something, then people went MM because of ARP? Not exactly sure on that, stopped playing my Hunter before 3.1 and came back to it around 4.1.
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  7. #47
    2-3 broken keyboards from spaming E (where is my SS/CS macro) during TBC says hello to you ;D
    BM is in a much better shape compared to that shit spec it was during TBC but bad memories stays .
    Another thing is Naxx25 - best hunter spec BM best button for single target dps - volley
    Yes i used to love BM spec for soloing strong elite or killing old raid bosses etc but when it comes to raiding unless BM is so much ahead of anything else i ll never play it
    And right now difference between BM and surv in a hands of good hunter is ...what non existent ? You ll see what i mean soon when lots of top hunters switch out of BM

    p.s. i played MM at the end of WOTLK but surv was really strong at the point too.

  8. #48

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Assumi View Post
    Funny, since the whole having a good, strong pet was the whole point I rolled a Hunter.
    Funny, since the whole being a good, skilled marksman was the whole point I rolled a Hunter.

    See what I did there?

    P.S. Yeah, the post you quoted is idiotic anyway. Others already pointed out why.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    BM AoE > SV AoE, if played correctly (which starts with using a worm and using stampede with 5x worm to spam burrow with).

    If you keep burrow constantly up, with multishot and glaive toss, you should beat the sv hunter, but this was pre ss buff.
    Name one boss fight when you use stampede for AoE instead of dps'ing the boss.

    Also, those saying BM is the hardest spec to play... really? What's hard with BM? You only have one CD more than other specs (FF isn't a CD) where you basically spam Arcane Shot. And of top of that it's the most forgiving spec of the three, as far as errors go. Seriously, did you even try MM this exp? That's by far the harder spec to play.

    As far as I'm concerned, I'm playing Surv for most fights, MM for when I want some serious challenge. BM felt like facerolling.
    Last edited by spiattalo; 2012-12-03 at 11:47 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirohibiki View Post
    Basically this. Will never understand the hatred towards BM. I love it, and have been this spec since I started playing. I do feel slightly overwhelmed by all of the CD's we have now, but it's alright. The OP's burning hatred for one spec is quite astounding, really. I don't quite understand what he's so worked up about. So BM is on top right now, so what? Love the "kids who collect spirit beasts will sit in a corner and show off in Org once the other two specs are ahead like they 'should be'" part btw. Comedy gold.

    /eyeroll
    BM is an enjoyable spec. Even MM has its joys for me but unfortunately i'm either realy bad at it or the spec is ridiculously underpowered atm (or a combination of the 2 issues...).

    I also like SV mainly because it has much better AOE (hey, it's fun to spread poison everywhere...) and its less dependant on cooldown alignment, so i find that the 2k dps i lose by doing SV in single target instead of BM, i gain slightly in slightly easier to do cleave and AOE if needed.

    Also, BM is too dependant on the pet. There are a lot of bugs out there that realy make pet management a hassle, like trying to blink strike and get constant messages "no path available", or out of the blue the pet dying for no reason that i could understand, etc.


    As SV i feel i'm a "swiss knife" hunter good enough for everything, as a BM i feel i'm a single target cooldown turret. It's diferent and its just my opinion, i find SV better all-round and even if it had 5k less dps i would still go for it because fun>min/max.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    BM is *all* CDs. It's literally whack-a-mole with fluctuations depending on how you whack-that-mole. To heroic progression raiders, it isn't very fun (IMO) because we generally don't have problems hitting the CDs when we need to, and there's very little larger-scale thought or planning put into it. For SV (and to a much larger extent MM) you have a cyclical nature in how you shoot based around the 24s BA CD and the 9s CS CD, and you have to be thinking ahead to plan your outgoing focus. It's a meta game in and of itself. Granted SV is dumbed down considerably now due to ES spam during LnL and AS not munching LnL, but it used to be a much more rhythmic spec.
    Even with LnL, survival is very linear and fixed, there's never really any extremes.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Funny, since the whole being a good, skilled marksman was the whole point I rolled a Hunter.

    See what I did there?

    P.S. Yeah, the post you quoted is idiotic anyway. Others already pointed out why.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:42 PM ----------



    Name one boss fight when you use stampede for AoE instead of dps'ing the boss.

    Also, those saying BM is the hardest spec to play... really? What's hard with BM? You only have one CD more than other specs (FF isn't a CD) where you basically spam Arcane Shot. And of top of that it's the most forgiving spec of the three, as far as errors go. Seriously, did you even try MM this exp? That's by far the harder spec to play.

    As far as I'm concerned, I'm playing Surv for most fights, MM for when I want some serious challenge. BM felt like facerolling.
    You obviously are one of those hunters that doesn't know what a hunter is about. I can tell that by :

    1) BM AoE will not gimp your single target, because it's a non automatic spell you only cast when you are aoeing.

    2) BM on target switch fight is very difficult, if you wanna do it right, it can be very time consuming to keep your pet active all the time.

    3) MM is not hard to play, I can play that spec without looking at my screen (yes i've done that earlier while looking out of the window and ending up with higher dps). MM also never has been the hardest spec to play unless it was on movement fights, other than that it was always pretty easy, especially now.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Even with LnL, survival is very linear and fixed, there's never really any extremes.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:56 PM ----------



    You obviously are one of those hunters that doesn't know what a hunter is about. I can tell that by :

    1) BM AoE will not gimp your single target, because it's a non automatic spell you only cast when you are aoeing.

    2) BM on target switch fight is very difficult, if you wanna do it right, it can be very time consuming to keep your pet active all the time.

    3) MM is not hard to play, I can play that spec without looking at my screen (yes i've done that earlier while looking out of the window and ending up with higher dps). MM also never has been the hardest spec to play unless it was on movement fights, other than that it was always pretty easy, especially now.
    If you are talking about the worm, then yes it will. Your pet will be unable to do their single target damage while channeling their aoe.

  13. #53
    Very misleading topic, BM is still top dps spec for hunters on like 9/10 of the fights.
    Survival is maybe good for 5 mans and/or questing (+ 1 maybe 2 bosses in total)

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Even with LnL, survival is very linear and fixed, there's never really any extremes.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:56 PM ----------



    You obviously are one of those hunters that doesn't know what a hunter is about. I can tell that by :

    1) BM AoE will not gimp your single target, because it's a non automatic spell you only cast when you are aoeing.

    2) BM on target switch fight is very difficult, if you wanna do it right, it can be very time consuming to keep your pet active all the time.

    3) MM is not hard to play, I can play that spec without looking at my screen (yes i've done that earlier while looking out of the window and ending up with higher dps). MM also never has been the hardest spec to play unless it was on movement fights, other than that it was always pretty easy, especially now.
    I take it point 1 isn't for me, 'cause you didn't reply to my question. I get you're saying you can play with an AoE pet even on single target, but for example in 10 man you usually have to provide a set buff and you don't have the luxury to chose your pet; and on a side note you're probably not taking into account the new worm/chimaera aoe mechanic for 5.1.
    I don't agree with point 2 as pet uptime is crucial to each spec. BM may find it more important, ok, but there's no different mechanic involved.
    As far as point 3 is concerned... well, the reason why MM is high on sims and low on charts is its difficulty, devs stated that themselves. For me BM is the spec I can play looking at my window. Looks like we see things in a very different way - although you want to sound like a prick with your "you don't know anything about hunters" thing.

    Just so I don't get misunderstood, I'm not saying Surv > BM in dps. BM is clearly the best spec DPS wise, I just don't like it and think it's the easiest to play.
    Last edited by spiattalo; 2012-12-03 at 12:53 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by lolipopp View Post
    Ok only this post worth replaying.
    I look at wol from time to time and i can tell you why you see mostly BM and no Surv on most bosses .. Its very simple ..most top hunters in lets say top 50-100 top hardcore guilds are playing as a BM main spec and those guys are probably so much better then most around reading these forums. If they switch to surv they ll do again shit load of dmg but the mentality with top guild is that if spec A does 0.5 % more dmg the spec B u always choose spec A no matter what. Another reason is players dont like tho change specs if the current spec is preforming well.
    So dont be fooled by your 1st impression you get by looking tops dps for BM and then for Surv (no is playeing MM so nothing to add about mm here).Its looks like BM is so much better but only reason for that is as a said top dogs are sporting mostly BM and this will be the case for this tier mostly to OP 2 and 4 set bonus.
    So i can tell you what will be next tier...cuz BM wont have access to OP set bonuses and cuz chances blizz to do a spec buff to BM is close to zero MM with heroics weapons in next tier and Surv thx to better scaling with agl and now with OP serpent sting will pull ahead .
    No one in there right might will play a pet spec if he can do same dps without counting too much on the pet everyone will switch spec.Those in top guild really care if there spec can do 110 or 115k dps ....those guys can hit something like 97-98% out of max possible dps and like they all play BM all of a sudden no one will play it .
    At the end of this expansion there will be only 2 specs ...MM for heavy single target dmg and Surv for heavy AoE fight with BM spec left being best at nothing and going back to the corner where kids like showing of there spirit beast while AFK in OG. Its that simple and the way blizz does buff surv and MM and reduce bm burst at the same time.... this is a trend its not blizzard trying to make 3 spec equally good its blizz point you out with a finger ...this spec is the best play this if u care for progress ...dont bother checking other spec they are good but U REALLY SHOULD PLAY THIS SPEC NOW CUZ ITS THE BEST. And every 6-12 month best spec change.
    The change is coming and very soon BM with those so called hard to manage 2-3 extra CDs that are not hard at all to track with proper addons will be thing of the past :_)
    I have seen it it happened before will happen again its what makes this game interesting and funny cuz u never know how blizz will decide to fuck around with your favorite spec next patch and they like to do it pretty often ! ;D

    p.s. the best buff to hunters this patch is not 5% ap is not serpent sting buff ...its the heavy nerf to mages !I am already doing very well on dmg matter and everything is ok ...but i am bored looking at those 3x blue lines almost every single fight on the top of my skada ...its annoying as fuck.
    At first you're saying that BM is shit cause you have to mange cd's and it's unforgiving if you mess up, few posts later you are saying that cd's are not hard to track... Thanks for making me lose 5 brain cells for reading your posts, which seems to be more than you ever had.

    BM hunters are still doing well, and so are survival hunters, play what you prefer most (which you, the REAL hunter do) and stop writing those nonsense posts before you accidentally write something smart.

  16. #56
    Pst.
    You guys heard WoW offers Dual Spec?
    I can share the secret with you.... you can even swap specs between attempts, to pick optimal/one you like etc.
    Haters gonna hate anyways...
    Every time you say "I don't believe in fearies" one of they dies...

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlaena View Post
    BM is a spec designed for Wrath Babies, those who enjoy fishing, and Apple Mac users.

    Sadly it is still top single-target.
    lol while i dont agree with you, i love the jibe anyway. stay classy.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlaena View Post
    BM is a spec designed for Wrath Babies, those who enjoy fishing, and Apple Mac users.

    Sadly it is still top single-target.
    You do realize that by saying this you imply that blizzard developers specifically sat down and designed th BM spec with those cafeterias as the basis for their decisions on what and how to create the spec?
    You realize how that sounds..? Rather silly, yes.

    To: lolliopp
    You say: "it has more dps single target ? No (Bm starts strong but who cares how u start i care how the picture looks in dmg matter at the end of the fight and surv always catch up after the strong bm burst at start)"
    In fact, you say a lot of things...
    The party that strongly advocate that BM is still top have at least linked to th math and numbers of Theorycraft. That gives their arguments weight.
    So far you have what? Continued to say "Real hunters (Like me)play SV and MM" and "Top hunters will go to SV and drop BM"...
    Unless you prove what you say, you are just a bag of air...
    - And yes theory is not "all" but its more then nothing...

  19. #59
    BM is better because OP doesnt like it.
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  20. #60
    OP hates BM I like it. I don't like MM ever since cata and will prolly never switch to MM again unless it's like a 12k difference. Surv is ok but I played surv in LK and Cata even though MM was top on LK. BM has always been my fav spec especially in BC, Man I miss BC BM lol. I always liked the idea of taming exotic pets, being a master of wild beasts. at least in Mop pet management isn't bad, in cata there was always a pet bug on the fights so I went surv. All specs are easy to play I dont think anyone is harder than the other. However I find MM's rythm of rotation very annoying and glad im not forced to switch to it. If I had to switch a spec it would be surv but not MM, I hate MM lol. But really people should be able to play what they like without having to be forced into a spec. At least now I can bring an exotic pet to raid with instead of same old pets I had. And we have a brez as BM hunters now which comes in handy.

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