1. #1

    5.1 Spec clarification

    Alright, after the patch landed I have been looking into how the changes have panned out and keep coming up with the same results: Survival has pulled ahead of BM. I first noticed this when a guild mate linked the theoretical DPS on Noxxic (he's a mage, wanted to highlight those fire nerfs) and saw survival ahead. I have since run simcraft and get the same results for myself. Yet looking over this forum so many people seem to be of the opinion the BM is still the optimal DPS spec. My question is why? Is there a set reason it is preferred even after 5.1? Perhaps theres some other factor I'm not taking into account, thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    It might be gear dependent, one spec scaling better than other, I dont know. According to Whitefyst of EJ, BM is 8.5% ahead of SV and MM who are basically equal.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130827-...3/#post2227395

    EDIT: Gratz me for 600th post.

  3. #3
    His post was made before the Sting changes though.

  4. #4
    The SrS buff obviously buffs Survival more than BM due to mastery. I've noticed Survival DPS quite a big higher after the patch. Still don't like playing BM but I see no real reason now, survival isn't doing all to bad right now. BM burst has been nerfed also due to LR changes.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    It might be gear dependent, one spec scaling better than other, I dont know. According to Whitefyst of EJ, BM is 8.5% ahead of SV and MM who are basically equal.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130827-...3/#post2227395

    EDIT: Gratz me for 600th post.
    Sadly, EJ is becoming a thing of the past for theory crafting. Posts are quite outdated and the quality of contribution seems to have fallen. The sims I ran for myself have showed Surv about 400dps higher, in the theoretical 'max' dps (as in BiS for the tier) I'm getting Surv ahead close to 1k dps so nothing massive but still a shift. So I can see an argument for both i suppose since BM does have more 'on demand' dmg.
    Last edited by velren; 2012-12-05 at 05:06 PM.

  6. #6
    I saw a significant increase in my overall dps as Survival last night on my hunter. The SRS buff is nice and puts Survival back where it should be. I think that BM and Survival are both competitive on single target fights, with a slight edge going to BM, but with the change you can play just play Survival and put BM back in the garage.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by velren View Post
    Sadly, EJ is becoming a thing of the past for theory crafting. Posts are quite outdated and the quality of contribution seems to have fallen. The sims I ran for myself have showed Surv about 400dps higher, in the theoretical 'max' dps (as in BiS for the tier) I'm getting Surv ahead close to 1k dps so nothing massive but still a shift. So I can see an argument for both i suppose since BM does have more 'on demand' dmg.
    The post in question was right before the Sting buff went live, hardly outdated. Hunter theorycrafting is still top notch, although you have a point for other classes/specs. Part of that is good players getting older and their interests shifting, and 3 years of "derp it up, guiz" from Blizz didn't exactly do much to retain them.

  8. #8
    Surv single target got buffed a bit, but it is still behind BM. The gap between the two is just a little smaller now. If you have the 4pc the gap opens a bit because the 4pc is essentially worthless for Surv and slightly less than worthless for MM. However, for BM the 4pc is ridiculously good and provides on demand burst as well as sustained high damage throughout a fight. AOE is not worth mentioning because surv will always be better.

    BM is still the king of the single target hill, survival is just climbing up the hill slowly.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ihatepeople View Post
    Surv single target got buffed a bit, but it is still behind BM. The gap between the two is just a little smaller now. If you have the 4pc the gap opens a bit because the 4pc is essentially worthless for Surv and slightly less than worthless for MM. However, for BM the 4pc is ridiculously good and provides on demand burst as well as sustained high damage throughout a fight. AOE is not worth mentioning because surv will always be better.

    BM is still the king of the single target hill, survival is just climbing up the hill slowly.
    you really think 10% more haste is worthless to MM?

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Marxman's Avatar
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    Yea, the 4pc is very good for MM. It's just that MM is still terrible.

    I'm playing Survival full time now. The 4pc is completely worthless, but that's fine by me since our tier set is itemized so poorly anyways.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Daieon's Avatar
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    BM being clearly dominant, and SV being harder to screw up + better AoE makes it the ideal secondary. MM just doesn't have what is wanted for most of the tier, and simply won't do as well in most situations.
    Violence is like duct tape, if it doesn't work the first time, use more.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerato View Post
    BM being clearly dominant, and SV being harder to screw up + better AoE makes it the ideal secondary. MM just doesn't have what is wanted for most of the tier, and simply won't do as well in most situations.
    This. /thread.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    you really think 10% more haste is worthless to MM?
    Yes and No.

    I say yes because MM is still a shitball spec, and throwing a small round-a-bout buff to a shitball spec still makes it shitball. Also, as far as I know that 10% extra haste still does not make it so that it is ideal to hard cast aimed shots when you're not under big haste CD buffs. That level of haste needed is not possible to get afaik (might be possible if you gimp your crit to horribly low levels but i dunno).

    I say no because the buff does make the spec a little easier to play and would be pretty good if the spec wasn't in the dumps. Bottom line the effectiveness of the 4pc doesn't matter if the spec still sucks with it. MM needs damage buffs on the main abilities and maybe a little reduction in the aimed shot cast (wishful thinking i know).

  14. #14
    Key problem with MM is it is really not well designed. Even if it does do as much damage as the other spec, a lot of that damage is frontloaded (read: occurs in phases that don't matter), it has the worst AOE out of any of the specs, and there a number of other issues with glyphs and stat priorities too.

    The post in question was right before the Sting buff went live, hardly outdated. Hunter theorycrafting is still top notch, although you have a point for other classes/specs. Part of that is good players getting older and their interests shifting, and 3 years of "derp it up, guiz" from Blizz didn't exactly do much to retain them.
    This really isn't true, at least in the case of EJ for hunters. I can't remember the last time anyone actually contributed there who has any sort of endgame heroic raiding experience, and the posts are usually convoluted with useless math.

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