View Poll Results: Which solution would you prefer?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • A)

    51 47.66%
  • B)

    14 13.08%
  • C)

    21 19.63%
  • D)

    21 19.63%
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    No they don't. What the hell are you smoking?
    He's smoking libertarian, brand 'utopia'.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Yes, and with all the regulation we have now companies surely dont do bad things.

    Child labor only became a problem because capitalism brought everyones living conditions up so much. Child labor was never a problem for the thousands of years before that. When businesses realized that adults were more efficient in the long run they hired them instead.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 12:19 AM ----------



    No. It's called cronyism, when the government and corporations are one in the same. Huge Corporations are a state creation.
    Could you describe a bit more specifically how huge corporations are a state creation? I've heard this argument a few times before, but what specific actions/laws brings this forth?

  3. #43
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vineland, Cumberland, NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,595
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    <snip>.
    If you think there are no regulations in a free market then you are foolish. Government regulations are the issue.

    And what exaclty is the problem with child labor? I understand that the conditions then were terrible. However having children work and contribute isn't a terrible thing. Hell, I had my fair share of things to do to help contribute when I was a child. And again we have been through quite some stuff since the 1800s and most companies would like to see that their employees are healthy to continue their job. Training more employees takes time and money. . .

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Well what about if the people boycotted the company doing all those negative things to the environment? They wouldn't be able to stay in business if they continued to do such things. So there options would be: change their policy or go out of business.

    You have to remember in a Free Market the consumers are just as important, if not more important, than the companies.
    I don't have that much faith in consumers. How many people really know where the things they buy come from, and the business practices of the company they buy from? Fact is many don't know or care, for products that serve the same purpose they buy whatever has the lowest price tag. With no subsidation for environmentally friendly companies, or taxes/regulations on polluters, there's no question who wins that battle of consumer choice.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    If you think there are no regulations in a free market then you are foolish. Government regulations are the issue.

    And what exaclty is the problem with child labor? I understand that the conditions then were terrible. However having children work and contribute isn't a terrible thing. Hell, I had my fair share of things to do to help contribute when I was a child. And again we have been through quite some stuff since the 1800s and most companies would like to see that their employees are healthy to continue their job. Training more employees takes time and money. . .
    There is a difference between contributing and child labor. Working a paper route or a part time job in high school isn't the same thing as what we are talking about. We're talking about kids who grow up working in the same conditions and place as their parents and have their future effectively laid out for them due to not being able to receive an education in anything other than what they grew up doing. It creates a caste system where people effectively inherit jobs and the poor stay poor.

    Also, government regulations are fine. Contrary to what you probably think, people can't take care of themselves in a free market system. At least, not for a fucking lot of things.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    If you think there are no regulations in a free market then you are foolish. Government regulations are the issue.
    Regulations are good for nothing if there's no authority to enforce them. What else than a government is able to enforce regulations?

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    In your dome.
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Do they pay their staff out of their own pocket or?
    Hell no, all that stuff is paid for by the taxpayers.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Regulations are good for nothing if there's no authority to enforce them. What else than a government is able to enforce regulations?
    There are private regulatory firms. Alcohol advertising is handled by a non-government organization. The industry self-regulates so the government doesn't have to get its bloated, overzealous ass involved.

  9. #49
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Århus
    Posts
    17,896
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Regulations are good for nothing if there's no authority to enforce them. What else than a government is able to enforce regulations?
    Private Military Companies of course!

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    In your dome.
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Sivick View Post
    It's clear to us that by watching europe that austerity does not work. that said i don't trust the corporations with a free reign on things to fix it by themselves. We already screwed up my prefered plan. We should have bailed out the people in debt instead of the financial companies and thrown the bankers who caused all this in jail.
    you mean the 'bankers' at the Federal Reserve and at Treasury, right?...

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    There are private regulatory firms. Alcohol advertising is handled by a non-government organization. The industry self-regulates so the government doesn't have to get its bloated, overzealous ass involved.
    Self-regulation because of the threat of government interference is effectively a form of government regulation.

    It's kinda like you're still being bullied if you punch yourself in the face because a bigger kid would punch you in the face if you didn't.
    Last edited by Bergtau; 2012-12-03 at 12:47 AM.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Could you describe a bit more specifically how huge corporations are a state creation? I've heard this argument a few times before, but what specific actions/laws brings this forth?
    Regulations make it more difficult for new companies to compete with standing companies. Regulations are made primarily by corporate lobbyists. They (corporations) were created in the 19th century to exclude them from liability for what they do, and they do this by bribing the government through lobbies and coercion. They move the goalposts through regulation to minimize loss.

    The big pharma companies get government contracts to monopolize the system, for example. Thats one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive.

    Also, this is supported by the fact that bailouts dont exist in a free market. When corporations fail, they fail.
    Last edited by Raidenx; 2012-12-03 at 12:55 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Self-regulation because of the threat of government interference is effectively a form of government regulation.

    It's kinda like you're still being bullied if you punch yourself in the face because a bigger kid would punch you in the face if you didn't.
    Given that it's still regulation (and innately harmful all its own) they're opting to fuck themselves in the ass gently with lube... as opposed to what the government did with cigarettes which is akin to anal rape with a pineapple.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    We also need to cut entitlements and stop inflation through the fed. Even if we eliminated ALL military spending we still be spending more than we earn.
    Entitlements like what? Medicade and food stamps?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Regulations make it more difficult for new companies to compete with standing companies. Regulations are made primarily by corporate lobbyists. They (corporations) were created in the 19th century to exclude them from liability for what they do, and they do this by bribing the government through lobbies and coercion. They move the goalposts through regulation to minimize loss.
    Then I think the real problem is lobbying, since you would kill two birds (buying government influence + corporate monopolies crushing competition) with one stone (constitutional amendment). I think in general that's the problem with the US system these days. Profits make exponential profits simply because of capital, not because of importance, or skill, or dedication in the field of business. It's also not regulations in general, it's specific ones that are merely "cost of business" stuff that doesn't really stop things like pollution and only exacerbate corporate waste.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristeus View Post
    Entitlements like what? Medicade and food stamps?
    Medicare probably, perhaps not food stamps

    Military and subsidies should take priority though

    Even if we cut all of the military we would still be in debt. Its just a reality that entitlements need to be reworked or eliminated

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 01:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Then I think the real problem is lobbying, since you would kill two birds (buying government influence + corporate monopolies crushing competition) with one stone (constitutional amendment). I think in general that's the problem with the US system these days. Profits make exponential profits simply because of capital, not because of importance, or skill, or dedication in the field of business. It's also not regulations in general, it's specific ones that are merely "cost of business" stuff that doesn't really stop things like pollution and only exacerbate corporate waste.
    It's true, but you're not going to suppress human nature. You're asking wolves to ignore the sheep. There will be less incentive to lobby the government if they didnt have the power and size to bail out the corporations and force heavy regulations and taxes upon small business.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Medicare probably, perhaps not food stamps

    Military and subsidies should take priority though

    Even if we cut all of the military we would still be in debt. Its just a reality that entitlements need to be reworked or eliminated

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 01:04 AM ----------



    It's true, but you're not going to suppress human nature. You're asking wolves to ignore the sheep. There will be less incentive to lobby the government if they didnt have the power and size to bail out the corporations and force heavy regulations and taxes upon small business.
    Even if you cut everything you'd be in debt.

    What do you propose to do about it then? (second part) My idea was to stop the source of the problem. How are you going to stop corporations from having their power and size?

  18. #58
    Kind of a bizarre poll given a) is already a reality, the U.S. just its implements socialism in very inefficient ways, largely because it seems to fear the very concept.

    "Socialism" isn't a black-or-white idea that is mass deployed, it exists on a sliding scale. If your government is spending on health care or has implemented progressive taxation in some form, it's already present.

    When you have guys like Warren Buffett begging to be subject to higher taxes, it might be a good clue as to what should at least be considered.
    Top tier 25M progression raiding on 12 hours per week.
    http://www.temerityofwindrunner.com/
    US 15th Garrosh - US 19th Ra-den ** US 19th Sha of Fear

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgrym View Post
    Kind of a bizarre poll given a) is already a reality, the U.S. just its implements socialism in very inefficient ways, largely because it seems to fear the very concept.

    "Socialism" isn't a black-or-white idea that is mass deployed, it exists on a sliding scale. If your government is spending on health care or has implemented progressive taxation in some form, it's already present.

    When you have guys like Warren Buffett begging to be subject to higher taxes, it might be a good clue as to what should at least be considered.
    One billionaire begs for higher taxes. One begs for lower taxes.

    The only reason you go for the former is because it means you can get more stuff. Of course you'll value his opinion higher.

  20. #60
    So many votes for A. You guys know it's very difficult to attract flies with vinegar, right?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •