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  1. #41
    I don't see many flaws with Dreary's post... it's the truth man.

    They got Revan's robes wrong and his mask clips through the hood. Considering Revan is already in the game, they basically failed at copy/paste.
    Impressively bad.
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    We are gunna use some dust brown to paint some happy little tornados here, and one more here. Then we are going to use some white to paint happy little wind blasts here. Just dab the brush along the base of al akir, and there you have it. THE GAYEST FIGHT EVER

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    You agreeing with anything negative no matter how flawed it might be makes you such a good person to "discuss" with...
    So, him providing pictures of a re-coloured robe being sold as something else as well as a masks you pay for that was already ingame prior to being available to players clipping is flawed now? What is the flaw in this? Are you saying the pictures are manipulated?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    I don't see many flaws with Dreary's post... it's the truth man.

    They got Revan's robes wrong and his mask clips through the hood. Considering Revan is already in the game, they basically failed at copy/paste.
    Impressively bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    So, him providing pictures of a re-coloured robe being sold as something else as well as a masks you pay for that was already ingame prior to being available to players clipping is flawed now? What is the flaw in this? Are you saying the pictures are manipulated?
    They re-coloured elite-war-hero gear, they did the same with rated-war-hero gear and... they did the same with PvE Gear... and.. they did the same with some other stuff aside that robe you can get on the cartel market verifies to not play this game?! If this is a gamebreaker for you guys... feel free to get upset about it. Why didn't he point out that some dungeons/ area's are just re-coloured (Jedi Temple on Tython and the Temple of the Three on Voss)...

    However... I was quoting another user which agrees 100% with whatever negativ is being posted about the game, be it that this robe is not exactly the robe from Revan in SWTOR and completely different than the robe from Revan in KOTOR... I just don't see the big deal about it. If that is a reason to not play the game or to point out how bad this game is... again... that's a minor problem in my point of view.

    Groupfinder not filling up empty spots after some morons just leave the group is on my scale 10000times higher than something you may/ may not buy for real money but probably someone can explain to me how this is such a gamebreaker that everyone should stop playing and start boycotting Bioware from today onwards.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    They re-coloured elite-war-hero gear, they did the same with rated-war-hero gear and... they did the same with PvE Gear... and.. they did the same with some other stuff aside that robe you can get on the cartel market
    And that's not a good thing, it's just more examples of what he was illustrating, lazyness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Why didn't he point out that some dungeons/ area's are just re-coloured (Jedi Temple on Tython and the Temple of the Three on Voss)...
    I'm sure he can provide lots of examples if you ask him nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    However... I was quoting another user which agrees 100% with whatever negativ is being posted about the game, be it that this robe is not exactly the robe from Revan in SWTOR and completely different than the robe from Revan in KOTOR... I just don't see the big deal about it. If that is a reason to not play the game or to point out how bad this game is... again... that's a minor problem in my point of view.
    Most people would consider it a pointer of things to come, along with the selling of high end ship parts as well as putting a big grind between you and not paying for those parts. When they can't even be bothered to re-skin (not re-model, just change the skin displayed on the model) a robe to look authentic but sure enough can bother to charge you for it as well as the mask (which has been in-game for ages) now clips through peoples hoods along with and event that can only be "enjoyed" through the cash-shop, no in-game quests, no alterations, no NPC's, no nothing along with numerous other things. Then people have some genuine ground for concern about what sort of effort is actually being put into the game, concerns which he voiced and you branded as flawed.

    Why they were flawed, you have yet to provide any good reason for however.

  5. #45
    Probably because copy & paste is done in most MMO's I know? So what? Why would you put any more effort into something which people still are going crazy about? They aren't even selling the robe, they put it in a new cartel packs along with tons of other "new" stuff and people are buying it. There are tons of people running around in that costume on my server and I doubt they would wear it if they had any issues with it.

    However... I was pointing out copy & paste already existing in the game... the OP is talking about like it would be something new, another sign of how lazy Bioware is and how the game is doomed. That opinion is flawed however as I don't remember seeing him complaining about re-coloured speeders or anything else re-coloured when the game was released. Copy & Paste is a common way in MMO's to maximize output to a small cost of just applying another color.

    Another thing which isn't pointed out however is that the cartel armor skins can be worn by any class which isn't the case for the already existing armor skins in the game. In that meaning any armor being adaptive armor which isn't already existing in the game is an addition to the game to increase the customizability for everyone. Maybe Bioware will make any custom armor adaptive, maybe not. So long these armor skins are the only way to not look like the typical class type without losing stats.

    What would you call "no in-game quest"... like section x doesn't exist for you? Makeb won't ever happen and that new pvp warzone is just an imagination?

    I really do hope that we will see different armor skins only obtainable via ingame activities, believe me I really do. I wish most from what you get on the Cartel Market could be obtained ingame via additional quests/ random drops etc. . I don't really like the increasing focus the Cartel Market is getting and I hope Bioware will find the right balance between one and the other and that we will see tons of stuff being implemented into the game over the next few months. However I won't agree on some half biased hypocrite which suddenly wakes up from his deep slumber only to point out something which is neither game breaking nor sounding any form of Armageddon.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Probably because copy & paste is done in most MMO's I know?
    Not to such an extent and they don't have the audacity to charge you for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    However... I was pointing out copy & paste already existing in the game... the OP is talking about like it would be something new, another sign of how lazy Bioware is and how the game is doomed. That opinion is flawed however as I don't remember seeing him complaining about re-coloured speeders or anything else re-coloured when the game was released. Copy & Paste is a common way in MMO's to maximize output to a small cost of just applying another color.
    Yeeeah, Bioware being lazy isn't so much an opinion as an undeniable fact by this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Another thing which isn't pointed out however is that the cartel armor skins can be worn by any class which isn't the case for the already existing armor skins in the game. In that meaning any armor being adaptive armor which isn't already existing in the game is an addition to the game to increase the customizability for everyone. Maybe Bioware will make any custom armor adaptive, maybe not. So long these armor skins are the only way to not look like the typical class type without losing stats.
    Yes, actually being able to wear things you buy in the cash-shop is such a great achievment on their part, that's such a no-brainer that it shouldn't need to be mentioned. But hey, being able to buy re-coloured gear that other classes can wear for real cash what a great deal. You just further reinforce his point of how lazy they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    What would you call "no in-game quest"...
    Exactely what they did to life day which was what I was talking about, an event only in name and it was ONLY accessible through the cash-shop. probably the only holiday event in any MMO that made people want to unsubscribe.
    Last edited by Zokonorb; 2012-12-16 at 01:45 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    So, him providing pictures of a re-coloured robe being sold as something else as well as a masks you pay for that was already ingame prior to being available to players clipping is flawed now? What is the flaw in this? Are you saying the pictures are manipulated?
    What is flawed is his multiple assertions that we should unsubscribe or not even play the game f2P as he believes EA/BW are lazy and money grubbing to the point of affecting the SW franchise.
    The lazy and money grubbing is difficult to argue with, EA/BW have seen to that- that said are a company with an obligation to shareholders.
    However the bottom line is that I play the game because I get enough entertainment/£, it's as simple as that. I save my energy to stand up for my morals and principles for the more important things in life.

  8. #48
    I just like how funny it is to still see people all hyped and believe that Bioware/EA would deliver a great holiday and how the CCMarket would not be involved were crushed under the usualy trash these developers unleash. After almost a year of them saying "Soon" to most questions and not delivering a good MMO, when will you people stop drinking the Kool-Aid and admit this MMO has some serious short comings. Stop just loving it cause it is Star Wars and wise up that there are other MMOs who deliver a much higher quality game, and stop tossing money at these undeserving companies.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    What is flawed is his multiple assertions that we should unsubscribe or not even play the game f2P as he believes EA/BW are lazy and money grubbing to the point of affecting the SW franchise.
    I don't think you quite understand the concept of flawed.

    Miss-treatment and money gouging of customers under a certain brand isn't something that strengthens the brand associated with these practices, EA, Bioware, star wars, none of the brands benefit from that. Now a fan who appreciates the brand would logically not prefer such treatment, so the logic that someone who is a fan of a certain brand really shouldn't appriciate such practices doesn't really seem flawed at all.

    Unless of course you mean to argue poor products with bad services with a certain brand attatched to them is something that makes people appreciate the brand more.

  10. #50
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    I don't think you quite understand the concept of context.

    In this particular instance I didn't defend EA/BW development or management of the game, in actual fact I agreed with the point that it looks like they are adopting a lazy money grubbing approach.
    I only commented that the post that brought about the recent flurry of comments on this thread (shown snipped below) is flawed in its assertions that we should not be playing this game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreary View Post
    You're still playing this????
    [snip]
    If you're a true fan of Star Wars you should be against what EA is doing to the franchise. Don't support this garbage.
    I would never be so bold as to tell someone what they should or (as in this case) should not do for fun in their spare time.

    The part of my post that you left out of your quote goes on to explain that I really don't care how EA/BW develop or manage the game, I play it because I enjoy it. When I no longer enjoy it, either because I get bored or EA/BW wreck it, I will stop playing it. Life is far too short to get so caught up in the politics of a how a game developer handles its games.
    As for damaging the brand of Star Wars....Are you honestly saying that when Disney release the next SW movie you think that EA/BW's management of SWTOR will have any real impact on the viewing figures? I think any effect will be utterly insignificant at most.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    I don't think you quite understand the concept of context.
    I do and it changes nothing, his logic still holds up, yours do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    In this particular instance I didn't defend EA/BW development or management of the game, in actual fact I agreed with the point that it looks like they are adopting a lazy money grubbing approach.
    I only commented that the post that brought about the recent flurry of comments on this thread (shown snipped below) is flawed in its assertions that we should not be playing this game.

    I would never be so bold as to tell someone what they should or (as in this case) should not do for fun in their spare time.

    The part of my post that you left out of your quote goes on to explain that I really don't care how EA/BW develop or manage the game, I play it because I enjoy it. When I no longer enjoy it, either because I get bored or EA/BW wreck it, I will stop playing it. Life is far too short to get so caught up in the politics of a how a game developer handles its games.
    As for damaging the brand of Star Wars....Are you honestly saying that when Disney release the next SW movie you think that EA/BW's management of SWTOR will have any real impact on the viewing figures? I think any effect will be utterly insignificant at most.

    So you say you don't give a shit and like to point it out, good for you. Other people do happen to think the business practices they are being subjected to is important. His logic is still sound, a fan of a brand would logically not approve of the mistreatment of it and probably not support it. So his statement that a big fan of the star wars brand shouldn't support the mistreatment of it in the form of SWTOR has real merit and is in fact not flawed in the least, which you so avidly and wrongly claim it to be.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    So you say you don't give a shit and like to point it out, good for you. Other people do happen to think the business practices they are being subjected to is important. His logic is still sound, a fan of a brand would logically not approve of the mistreatment of it and probably not support it. So his statement that a big fan of the star wars brand shouldn't support the mistreatment of it in the form of SWTOR has real merit and is in fact not flawed in the least, which you so avidly and wrongly claim it to be.
    When I am buying a new car or shopping around for a new mortgage deal I care about the business practices of the companies I deal with, when playing a computer game I'm not so fussy.
    I never said his (and subsequently your) logic is flawed, if he dislikes the way EA/BW is managing the game and feels strongly about it, that is fine. I also agree that if a person cares significantly about something they should not support actions that THEY DEEM detrimental to it. What I said was flawed was his assertion that others, some of whom may not share his opinion, should not be playing the game. There is a significant difference between stating your intent not to support something and actually telling other people what they should or should not do. Who is he to tell me how I should spend my money or spare time and that I should not be doing something that I enjoy?
    On top of that, the cornerstone of your argument is the effect of EA/BW's mismanagement of SWTOR on the Star Wars brand as a whole, which I think you are completely over estimating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    So his statement that a big fan of the star wars brand shouldn't support the mistreatment of it in the form of SWTOR has real merit and is in fact not flawed in the least, which you so avidly and wrongly claim it to be.
    Nice to see you have called upon another bastion of the online forum writer...stating your opinion as if it is fact.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    When I am buying a new car or shopping around for a new mortgage deal I care about the business practices of the companies I deal with, when playing a computer game I'm not so fussy.
    I never said his (and subsequently your) logic is flawed, if he dislikes the way EA/BW is managing the game and feels strongly about it, that is fine. I also agree that if a person cares significantly about something they should not support actions that THEY DEEM detrimental to it. What I said was flawed was his assertion that others, some of whom may not share his opinion, should not be playing the game.
    It's not really an opinion he's presenting, their laziness and lack of effort is pretty much a fact by this point in time, which we can see by comparing their production to other services, where holiday events aren't just a certain amount of cash shop items that even subscribers would have to pay for, as well as paying for permanent power through top end ship parts or face a very significant grind. I could also mention their only updates for some time now have been things that's been done since ages, hypergates was available at gamescon fully playable for example. HK and the armour models were in the beta stage of the game but removed.

    So their effort to heavily monetize many aspects of the game compared to other games as well as their lack of producing any real updates, it's actually a highly logical conclusion that they're either lazy, incompetent, not commited or to place them all under one umbrella, not productive. Heck from what I understand GW2 are closing in on having added more content to the game in their soon half a year life than SWTOR's full year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    Nice to see you have called upon another bastion of the online forum writer...stating your opinion as if it is fact.
    It is facts actually, his logic does hold. They don't produce content and charge money for things others get for free as well as re-coloured gear that clips, so having presented that, he proceeds to say star wars fans should not support the game, this logic isn't flawed, at all. Oh, and opinion based on empirical data that reflects reality > opinions taken out of thin air or based on faulty data. Only fools believe all opinions are equal. And his is based on empirical data that reflects reality, and that fans shouldn't support mistreatment of brands they are fans of you've already agreed to.

    So in short, you lose.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    I don't see many flaws with Dreary's post... it's the truth man.

    They got Revan's robes wrong and his mask clips through the hood. Considering Revan is already in the game, they basically failed at copy/paste.
    Impressively bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    So, him providing pictures of a re-coloured robe being sold as something else as well as a masks you pay for that was already ingame prior to being available to players clipping is flawed now? What is the flaw in this? Are you saying the pictures are manipulated?
    Just like I said, he'd ignore reason and fight it blindly.

    Anything I agree with he'll automatically believe its wrong, even if the proof is right there in his face.

    He tries to deny logical answers seemingly on the "fact" that nothing I agree with can possibly be intelligent all the while digging his credibility deeper because he ignores proof or objective observations.

    Psychlon give it up, you did exactly what I said you would do. You ignored good points because you'd rather go "LALALALA the game is perfect" then listen to a logical (and proven) point against the game. Don't hate on the game but it's fine to hate on the haters.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Not to such an extent and they don't have the audacity to charge you for it.

    Yeeeah, Bioware being lazy isn't so much an opinion as an undeniable fact by this point.

    Yes, actually being able to wear things you buy in the cash-shop is such a great achievment on their part, that's such a no-brainer that it shouldn't need to be mentioned. But hey, being able to buy re-coloured gear that other classes can wear for real cash what a great deal. You just further reinforce his point of how lazy they are.
    You just don't have any idea how "lazy" developers can be... in fact I don't think you have any kind of overview how much has been re-colored in this nor in any other mmo. The statement that Bioware is "now" getting lazy is wrong... they use at least the same level of lazyness other MMO developer are using.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraeblood View Post
    I just like how funny it is to still see people all hyped and believe that Bioware/EA would deliver a great holiday and how the CCMarket would not be involved were crushed under the usualy trash these developers unleash. After almost a year of them saying "Soon" to most questions and not delivering a good MMO, when will you people stop drinking the Kool-Aid and admit this MMO has some serious short comings. Stop just loving it cause it is Star Wars and wise up that there are other MMOs who deliver a much higher quality game, and stop tossing money at these undeserving companies.
    wise up?.. wising up would be to accept shortcomings and play what you want instead of crying in forums how bad this game is treating you but still.. for some reason... you can't let it go. That's in fact immature behavior at its best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    It's not really an opinion he's presenting, their laziness and lack of effort is pretty much a fact by this point in time, which we can see by comparing their production to other services, where holiday events aren't just a certain amount of cash shop items that even subscribers would have to pay for, as well as paying for permanent power through top end ship parts or face a very significant grind. I could also mention their only updates for some time now have been things that's been done since ages, hypergates was available at gamescon fully playable for example. HK and the armour models were in the beta stage of the game but removed.

    So their effort to heavily monetize many aspects of the game compared to other games as well as their lack of producing any real updates, it's actually a highly logical conclusion that they're either lazy, incompetent, not commited or to place them all under one umbrella, not productive. Heck from what I understand GW2 are closing in on having added more content to the game in their soon half a year life than SWTOR's full year.

    It is facts actually, his logic does hold. They don't produce content and charge money for things others get for free as well as re-coloured gear that clips, so having presented that, he proceeds to say star wars fans should not support the game, this logic isn't flawed, at all. Oh, and opinion based on empirical data that reflects reality > opinions taken out of thin air or based on faulty data. Only fools believe all opinions are equal. And his is based on empirical data that reflects reality, and that fans shouldn't support mistreatment of brands they are fans of you've already agreed to.

    So in short, you lose.
    "Real content" is only what I see as content... , if I say today is Monday, it doesn't matter that it's Tuesday. Can't you enlighten the people over at the GW2 forums? Maybe your problems with SWTOR can linger their problems with GW2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Just like I said, he'd ignore reason and fight it blindly.

    Anything I agree with he'll automatically believe its wrong, even if the proof is right there in his face.

    He tries to deny logical answers seemingly on the "fact" that nothing I agree with can possibly be intelligent all the while digging his credibility deeper because he ignores proof or objective observations.

    Psychlon give it up, you did exactly what I said you would do. You ignored good points because you'd rather go "LALALALA the game is perfect" then listen to a logical (and proven) point against the game. Don't hate on the game but it's fine to hate on the haters.
    You think a piece of clothing is a hugh thing you have to bleed all over with... I don't think it is... in fact most people I see and talk to aren't bothered by it the slightest because.. it's just not that big of a deal. Just because it may be logical that they re-coloured something and in fact, the argument may be perfectly valid (which btw. I never denied)... but it's such a small thing.. it's just not on my radar. Sorry for you if it is.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    You just don't have any idea how "lazy" developers can be... in fact I don't think you have any kind of overview how much has been re-colored in this nor in any other mmo. The statement that Bioware is "now" getting lazy is wrong... they use at least the same level of lazyness other MMO developer are using.
    Empirical data that reflects reality says otherwise, and you're right, the statement that bioware is now getting lazy is wrong, they've always been lazy as far as SWTOR is regarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    "Real content" is only what I see as content... , if I say today is Monday, it doesn't matter that it's Tuesday. Can't you enlighten the people over at the GW2 forums? Maybe your problems with SWTOR can linger their problems with GW2.
    So, you consider content taken out and then put back in to be updates to be new content, oh my.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    You think a piece of clothing is a hugh thing you have to bleed all over with... I don't think it is... in fact most people I see and talk to aren't bothered by it the slightest because.. it's just not that big of a deal. Just because it may be logical that they re-coloured something and in fact, the argument may be perfectly valid (which btw. I never denied)... but it's such a small thing.. it's just not on my radar. Sorry for you if it is.
    Yeah bioware starting to focus on selling re-coloured gear for real cash sure is a minor thing, same with "events" being 100% cash shop items and no ingame changes. It shows real promise for the future.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Empirical data that reflects reality says otherwise, and you're right, the statement that bioware is now getting lazy is wrong, they've always been lazy as far as SWTOR is regarded.
    again.. even though you seem to ignore it... , if we would fly virtually through Everquest 2 I could show you tons of copy&paste content, same with SWG and other games and I'm sure even WoW is using copy&paste for some stuff. It's really not that big of a deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    So, you consider content taken out and then put back in to be updates to be new content, oh my.
    like the new warzone is totally copy&paste... ? I guess all planets are also just copy&paste as all are basically "round balls"?! They've even be so lazy that they coverd most of Belsavis with ice to safe time and gave us only some very minor area to explore. Oh my....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Yeah bioware starting to focus on selling re-coloured gear for real cash sure is a minor thing, same with "events" being 100% cash shop items and no ingame changes. It shows real promise for the future.
    Revans Robe costs around 70-80k currently while the mask is around 2.5 million. Something you entirely leave it is that, whatever is on the cartel market is being sold by players to players for ingame credit, making everything available without spending real money on it.

  18. #58
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    I will say, u can buy most everything that was in a cartel pack on the AH. After dropping some cash on CC I ended up getting a few lounge pants, but didn't get the top. However I was able to buy the top for credits off the AH, meaning didn't have to (drop more) real money on CCs.

    Ultimately what I REALLY don't get is why people who seem to hate bioware/EA/this game...even bother to check this forum, let alone post here. If you hate SWTOR and aren't playing it, why do you even care? (This point is general and not aimed at any one person)
    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
    -Warrior Wisdom

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
    Ultimately what I REALLY don't get is why people who seem to hate bioware/EA/this game...even bother to check this forum, let alone post here. If you hate SWTOR and aren't playing it, why do you even care? (This point is general and not aimed at any one person)
    Hating something implies "caring" about it an awful lot. Also discussion would be pretty pointless if everbody agreed, held hands and sang Kumbaya.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    again.. even though you seem to ignore it... , if we would fly virtually through Everquest 2 I could show you tons of copy&paste content, same with SWG and other games and I'm sure even WoW is using copy&paste for some stuff. It's really not that big of a deal.
    Do they have the audacity to charge me real money for it? Do they sell me [insert gear of iconic character] that isn't even the gear said character uses but just some other stuff that's re-coloured (not even reskinned)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    like the new warzone is totally copy&paste... ? I guess all planets are also just copy&paste as all are basically "round balls"?! They've even be so lazy that they coverd most of Belsavis with ice to safe time and gave us only some very minor area to explore. Oh my....
    The WZ isn't even new, it was fully playable on gamescon in august and was due to be released earlier, it is just old, delayed stuff. Have they added new planets? No, they really haven't done that have they so I have no idea why you're even grasping for that straw. I like how you talk about exploration in SWTOR though where planets are mainly corridors or exhaustion zones: the game, exploration is not a word you can attribute yo SWTOR with any sort of honesty or intellectual integrity.

    Exploration and swtor in the same sentence, oh my indeed. Oh, and how does your insane rambling have anything to do with them taking content out and then claiming it's "new content"? Just curious since you seem desperate to dodge that question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Revans Robe costs around 70-80k currently while the mask is around 2.5 million. Something you entirely leave it is that, whatever is on the cartel market is being sold by players to players for ingame credit, making everything available without spending real money on it.
    And all of those come from where now? Come on I know you know it but don't want to say it. That's right, the cash shop. There's nothing like in GW2 where you can actively exchange ingame currency for cash shop currency. It all has to be paid for with real cash. And that doesn't even begin to address the fact that they are now focusing on the cash shop and having "events" that's actually just cash shop items. Really, small F2P asian MMO's do real holiday events, the MMO with the biggest budget to date though, not so much. The warning flags are there to be seen by everyone.

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