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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Vizier Zorlok 10m N assistance

    Heya MMO Champ raiders! Been working on Vizier in HoFear for the past 2-3 raid nights or so, and we do great getting thru the first 3 platforms nice-n-fast, w/usually 4-5mins left on his berserk timer when we hit the middle / gas is sucked away. We're getting him to 10-18% pretty consistently but we're having an issue where due to him using all his abilities, our dps effective time drops dramatically. We're also not sure when best time to use Bloodlust/ Warp is on him, we've been doing it when he moves off the last platform and goes to the center but not sure thats most effective. Here is our world of logs page for last nights evening of attempts:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8sfdg9ga95rjhagx/

    our raid comp is usually:

    Tanks:
    Bear druid = MT
    Monk tank = exhale absorber

    Healers:
    Resto druid
    Resto sham
    Holy priest

    Melee dps:
    Combat rogue
    Fury warr

    Ranged dps:
    BM hunter *me*
    Destro warlock
    Ele shaman or fire mage
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    we're a small guild and roster isnt too flexible currently, so thats what we usually go with-- the holy priest was wondering if learning disc for this fight might help more or not for the predictable damage on force-n-verve / before attenuations etc.

    Any thoughts / advice welcome. We aren't trying to set world on fire with our progress or anything, but think we should be able to get this guy down by now.

  2. #2
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=9417&e=9966

    says it all really people not standing under the barriers, not avoiding the sonic rings at all, killing MC'd players.

    other than that i'd say your dps is blindfolded and fapping, i cant understand some of the numbers, an ele shaman pulling 33k dps? if i play horribly and have bad FS uptime and use cooldowns badly i'd still be doing over double that damage, thats not even good cata dps....

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Maximus4004's Avatar
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    Use blood lust right from the start of phase 2 when everyone gets sucked to him or is nearby. He does rings most often, so you cannot fail on those(One thing to remember is one person failing on rings can domino effect the raid as the rings break and separate causing mayhem, make it simple and say get your ass a safe distance to the boss and dodge the rings. Also why are you 3 healing this fight the damage is very mediocre as long as everyone follows mechanics.

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  4. #4
    My raid group has almost killed Zor'lok (we will tonight), and I have to ask you why you're using two tanks. We saw no need for it. Your tank can just intercept Exhale. It's a channel, and anyone standing in the yellow beam will take the Exhale damage. Our Brewmaster tank, thanks to Stagger, takes very little damage from it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Minaah View Post
    our raid comp is usually:

    Tanks:
    Bear druid = MT
    Monk tank = exhale absorber

    Healers:
    Resto druid
    Resto sham
    Holy priest

    Melee dps:
    Combat rogue
    Fury warr

    Ranged dps:
    BM hunter *me*
    Destro warlock
    Ele shaman or fire mage
    Why is your main tank not absorbing exhales? It's a one-tank fight. Your monk should be dps spec. Also, if you have enough cooldowns and hps to get through Force and Verve, two-heal it.

    As for Bloodlust, we don't use it necessary as a dps cooldown in the final phase. We use it primarily as a healing cooldown in the final phase to get through a Force and Verve, plus since dps is standing still for 10 seconds, it's best used then for them, anyway.
    Last edited by Karazee; 2012-11-30 at 09:07 PM.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  6. #6
    Your warlock chaos bolt'd your hunter...... really?

    edit: rather, he chaos bolted you*...

  7. #7
    First of all, this is a 1-tank fight. If you're using 2, you're gimping your dps unnecessarily. 1 tank is capable of moving to soak exhales and as long as healers are prepared and the tank can rotate small cooldowns (or get cd help from healers), soaking them is not very painful. The only catch is that you need to be careful not to let your tank be stunned/feared/etc. by MC'd targets, which should not be too difficult. Save a stun or some other cc for MC's on platform 3 and phase 2 and you'll be fine.

    It is also possible to 2-heal this fight since the Force and Verve fix. The damage is not so extreme now and with decent use of healing and defensive cooldowns, its not hard to heal though. Attenuation should not require any healing at all since it is 100% avoidable damage anyway.

    Lastly, as Socialhealer said, your dps is really underwhelming. It look's like that's partially because you have a lot of deaths throughout the fight. There are a lot of deaths happening that seem to be caused by lack of good positioning.
    - Melee dps should never be on top of the boss. He has something like a 12 yard hit radius. The space immediately surrounding the boss should always be clear so the tank can easily move between the boss and exhale targets. If a melee dps is too close, they will eat exhale and the tank will not be able to intervene.
    - If you aren't already, assign specific players to bubbles for force and verve. He always spawns 1 bubble directly on himself, 1 at mid-range, adjacent to the first, and 1 at long range, not necessarily near the first 2. We have melee and our tank (3-4 depending on comp) in the boss bubble, both healers and 2 range dps in the mid-range bubble, and 2-3 ranged in the far bubble. Those in the far bubble should be ones with strong defensive cd's (i.e. hunters, boomkins, etc.) since they won't be getting a lot of the aoe healing on the inner bubbles.
    - During Force, its a good idea to assign 1 healer to focus on players in the far bubble. The other healer(s) can focus on aoe healing the 2 close bubbles.
    - For MC'd targets, do whatever possible to not leave snares, dots or other seriously harmful effects on players. Short term stuns, silences and cc's work best as they are dispellable, and do not do damage after the MC breaks. The also do not hinder a players ability to move should they come out into attenuation or force and need to move quickly.
    - Attempt as much as possible to keep dangerous abilities on cd for the MC mechanic. Smoke bomb, aoe fears, shockwave, deterrence, bubble and any powerful offensive cd's should be kept on cd as much as possible to minimize what you can do to the raid if you are mind controlled. The last thing you want is for a rogue to smoke bomb the boss preventing healers from healing the tank during an exhale, or a priest to psychic scream everyone off of the platform.

  8. #8
    Everybody's DPS is incredibly low, moving or not. Does this fight have an enrage? If so, you should post logs in the appropriate class forums and get some feedback for your raiders. They'll need to perform a lot better if you plan on ever killing Garalon. Your Rogue (the only class I can comment on specifically) is playing very badly, aside from being a suboptimal spec for a single target fight.

    Judging by the death log, your problem is not DPS (though you do have a DPS problem). People are dying to Attenuate, Force and Verve, and MCs (both killing MC targets with DoTs and MCs killing others).

    • Nobody should get hit by Attenuate. It's just a spiral—you run in a circle. If you screw up, pop a personal CD—most of your raiders have a really good one.
    • People need to be under the correct shell for Force and Verve. Your melee one should always be the same people. Your Rogue can stand out with Feint to make things easier. Use a raid CD if you need to; not really another place to use them.
    • Don't DoT MCs on purpose. Your lock blasting MCs with Immolate is kind of ridiculous. You still need to break them quickly and you can coordinate stuns and stack to make it really easy. Your Lock, Monk, and Shaman all have an AoE stun; coordinate those.

    Aside from all that, Disc is really good on pretty much every fight this tier (especially if you 3 heal). I would just switch Disc full time: Spirit Shell big damage, PoH if the other two healers need help, else just Smite (there's more to it than just that, but it's an extremely versatile and powerful spec). Your rDrood can help DPS during Hero with HotW (should burst ~100k DPS). Blow Hero just as he lifts off the third platform. Make sure people are using potions. It doesn't look like many are prepotting and hero potting every time (or at all). This is a one-tank fight, so one of your tanks can spec DPS.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Help ol Gil Out's Avatar
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    The overall DPS and raid awareness doesn't seem to be doing your group any kind of favors. Dodging Attenuation is one of the easiest raiding mechanics in the game and if you can dodge one, you can dodge them all providing you're not doing it wrong and getting cork-screwed outwards from the boss. Just have everyone circle-strafe while within melee range since you have less room to cover and won't get a bounce back or splitting sphere while your DPS goes through their rotation.

    Third phase, pop BL once the fog lifts since you'll have the best uptime since he usually pops Attenuation first (as Maximum said). If you get an MC followed by F&V or Attenuation, CC them so they won't fear, stun, or root you and just deal with them after the phase ends.
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  10. #10
    If you are having most of your trouble around 18-20% you might try holding Lust till then. This is what helped the group I downed him with push it over. Yes, your effective dps drops a bit because that is when he usually gets around to staring his final phase MCs, but it can help you power through his most damaging phase quicker, and may help your healers. Also, in the final phase when rings and f&v are not up designate about half the room for your raid to loosely spread in (or even stack if your raiders are quick to move back when a neighbor is exhaled) so that you don't have 1 MC going out on one side of the room and the other MC way out on the other side. Focus mechanics in the final phase over dps tunneling and it should be an easy kill.

    In addition, as others have said, swap to 1 tank and even 2 heal if your healers are up to it...f&v really doesn't hit nearly as hard anymore. Have all raiders juggle personal def CD so that some are back up for when boss hits 20%...and same with raid CDs.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  11. #11
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    We are a small guild as well we have a 10 man roster for our raid (2 are outside of guild) and we raid 1 night 4 hours a week. This boss is doable by people on a casual scheduel so long as a couple things are followed.

    1) Set up your F&V CD rotation before the pull
    2) Make sure people get close when sonic rings go out... its so easy to dodge when you are close and just run clockwise or countre clockwise depending on the rotaiton. The further you are the more bounces there are from the walls!
    3) ONE TANK IT! I'm the MT and our pallie tank goes ret for this fight. As the only dmg coing out when he exhales is exhale your tank can soak it np!
    4) abuse symbiosis if your priest can get another tranq out of it! that is what we do with our S.priest and it's really nice in P2 with F&V and less CD's to go around!
    5) On the MC platform blow your fears and stuns on CD so when you get MC'ed you don't use it on the raid.

    The boss should die really fast if you 1 tank 2 heal it... at the moment you seem to be putting too much into tanking and healing and as such you are runing into the issue where multiple events are happening in p2 becuase you are not killing him fast enough.

    This is my POV of the fight... ask any questions if you see something you don't understand why we are doing it that way!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNta2...1&feature=plcp

  12. #12
    Drop a tank and a healer. 3 healers was kinda nice at start but since they cut down F&V damage so much there really is no need for it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    4) abuse symbiosis if your priest can get another tranq out of it! that is what we do with our S.priest and it's really nice in P2 with F&V and less CD's to go around!
    Unless they buffed it in 5.1, SP Tranq is only ~200k healing TOTAL; so little it's useless. I would use Sym on something more useful. Since the Druid is a Guardian, he can pick up some pretty sick defensive abilities instead.

  14. #14
    High Overlord
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    We know the dps from movement etc on a few people who are trying not to die to Attenuation is a bit lower than it should be, not sure why our ele shams dps is that low honestly, its higher in other fights easily. We are assigning people as suggested, to the 3 F&V bubbles pretty much exactly as stated-- melee / tanks in boss dome, healers and 1 ranged in middle one, and left over ranged in far one and pop cooldowns personally as needed. I think a few of our raiders may / may not be having a latency issue on attenuations, which probably isn't helping us at all really. I think both our tanks are pure tank only currently, and dont feel comfortable putting out enough dps were they to swap, but i'll see if the monk can go dps on our next tries-- every little bit helps right? As for dropping to 2 healers, the only 'dps spec' we'd be able to get would be to have our holy priest swap to disc and smite heal instead--- dont think the other 2 have viable dps gear / specs or enough practice to help much, tho we can look at trying that option also- we know its spose to be a 1 tank fight, but as I said -- due to our monk / bear not really having experience w/solid dps .. we've just been keeping them both as pure tanks. Thanks for the advice folks-- and we'll be trying him again next reset-- hopefully some of the tips will push us that last 10%.

    I think our worst issues are honestly w/handling the MC's--they either get bursted too fast or dotted up too much so they are too low on health when MC breaks and they fall over. Our lock was tryin to keep all burning embers used so she didnt chaos bolt MC'd peeps but there were a few oopsies. Also doesnt help when our rog gets MC'd and Fok's the closest peeps near him w/all his darn poisons either, eww. We were also trying best we could to keep AE fears / loss of control abilties on cooldown before MC's hit too, but a few of those came back off cd mid MC etc and got us screwed-- specially on p2 while F&V was up while we had 1 MC CCd / stunned etc. Just crappy timing here and there I think.
    Last edited by Minaah; 2012-11-30 at 10:11 PM.

  15. #15
    Fixing DPS will fix your p2 woes. Looking at the way your Lock is hitting MCs, it honestly looks like he's trying to kill people. "Oopsy" doesn't cover the crap he's doing. With 3 healers, you should be able to dispel MC'd people as they break as long as they don't get instagibbed by your Lock. Your Rogue's poisons should not be an issue because DP doesn't tick for much as Combat and he's using Leeching, which does nothing to you.

    Just keep the annoying CCs on CD, rotate AoE stuns, tell your Lock to knock it off, and MCs are no problem. More DPS will mean less to deal with in p2. None of your DPS should be considerably affected by dodging Attenuation; they can all do stuff while moving. They're doing stuff wrong and need to improve their base rotation.

  16. #16
    Tips (as said above by some)
    During MC blow stuns
    1 tank this fight
    3 heal is fine but prefer to 2 heal
    Go get the addon Ensidia Fails.. it tracks who gets hit by what and reports it out. This motivates people not to be "that guy"
    Coordinate F&V cooldowns... I go over a bunch of this in more detail on the video I made for our other raid teams. It may help you guys as well.
    Being generally horrible but helpful since Molten Core;
    When leading was more about managing bathroom breaks than boss mechanics.
    http://www.ihazlead.com - Raid leading guides, tutorials, and videos.

  17. #17
    High Overlord
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    @Jfragment-- thanks for the vid, and to the others who linked their kills-- very helpful-- we're doing most of what you all are doing, just need to get better dps / less fail on stupid avoidable stuff. Ty all for the helpful advice, really appreciate it. /cheers

  18. #18
    For our kill we 2 healed it, you could try that^^ resto shammy resto druid, and since you are only doing normal go with 1 tank only aswell, thats a ton more dps you have right there, should make all phases faster
    IGN Joe FC: 1908 - 0405 - 5213

  19. #19
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minaah View Post
    I think both our tanks are pure tank only currently, and dont feel comfortable putting out enough dps were they to swap, but i'll see if the monk can go dps on our next tries-- every little bit helps right? .
    The thing you must remember is having the monk as offtank he is not getting hit 90% of the time thus he is not building up veng. As such even if he performs his rotation perfectly he will have a fraction of the dmg he normally has when tanking due to missing all that veng! Thus even a non perfect dps spec / rotation / gear should outperform a tank than is veng starved!

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    The thing you must remember is having the monk as offtank he is not getting hit 90% of the time thus he is not building up veng. As such even if he performs his rotation perfectly he will have a fraction of the dmg he normally has when tanking due to missing all that veng! Thus even a non perfect dps spec / rotation / gear should outperform a tank than is veng starved!
    From a tank damage standpoint the Monk will probably have higher tank damage than a bear, so if they both do the same relative DPS in their off-spec's you'd get the most DPS out of keeping the Monk if he plays well. Pulled 63k DPS this week without doing anything fancy just normal rotation. DK's are about the only tank that can keep up with BrM's from my experience.

    Either way yeah don't 2 tank this fight just have which ever be ready for exhale and might need an external if they are the target (only happened to me once last kill) as at least for Monk's getting stunned sucks big time.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

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