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  1. #1

    Touch of the Grave best PvE racial according to ShadowPanther?

    After doing some light reading on SP.net, it looks like Touch of the Grave is the strongest PvE racial available now.
    (333 MAEP for TotG, vs. 300 for Panda Epicurean, and 100-200 for other racials)

    Is the proc really as strong as SP makes it out to be? I don't have the chance to test it out for myself, but I'm almost regretting changing my Undead to a Goblin back in Cata. :P

  2. #2
    Link to the ability on Wowhead.
    Yeah, it really does seem that powerful.

    At the very least, it's as strong as the Troll racial combo (haste clicky and Beast Slaying), but probably a little weaker than the Pandaren racial because Rogues do not have any abilities that scale it's power.

    What I'd REALLY want to see is how strong it's turning out for Undead raiding Rogues. How much damage does it equal out to on Patchwerk-style fights like Feng or the single-target phase of Empress, etc.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  3. #3
    Touch of the Grave does about 1% of my total damage i think.

  4. #4
    now all that remainsis to give belfs a good pve dps cd, cause atm belf one is pretty bad for rogues, sure helps to have a extra interupt, but we dont really gain as much from it like casters do

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosferato View Post
    now all that remainsis to give belfs a good pve dps cd, cause atm belf one is pretty bad for rogues, sure helps to have a extra interupt, but we dont really gain as much from it like casters do
    Yeah... 15 energy is pretty lack luster. Its fairly solid in pvp though.

    The only thing about the UD racial is that it afaik doesn't scale. All of the other racials actually increase in value (in terms of dps gain) as your stats increase. For example 300 agility now versus next tier with another 1k haste/mastery isn't worth the same in dps. Certainly a solid choice for a race that hasn't really had a pve racial (though WotF was really good on certain fights).
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2012-12-01 at 09:13 PM.

  6. #6
    1% total damage vs 300 agility!?

  7. #7
    My numbers put into shadowcraft show panderan>worgen>undead>orc>gnome>goblin>troll>belf>nelf>human>dwarf for assassination
    Last edited by delus; 2012-12-02 at 04:47 PM.

  8. #8
    I like how Night Elves, the most shadowy, stealthy and nimble of all races gain almost nothing for PvE raiding as rogue at the moment.
    Last edited by Bluegirl91; 2012-12-02 at 06:03 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    I like how Night Elves, the most shadowy, stealthy and nimble of all races gain almost nothing for PvE raiding as rogue at the moment.
    I'd say you're right because Subtlety is bad right now. Or did they remove being able to use stealth-required moves from Shadowmeld?
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  10. #10
    In raids it's currently the #2 best Horde racial for dps, but it suffers from extreme lack of scaling. By t15 BiS it will most likely be on par with the BE racial in terms of shittiness if it isn't changed at all. It does have the added benefit of healing you a little in addition to UD's fairly decent secondary racials, but it's nowhere near a point in PvE where Rogues should race change to it for max dps(which is generally pretty dumb in the first place, imo).

  11. #11
    Dreadlord Vanthem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yargus View Post
    After doing some light reading on SP.net, it looks like Touch of the Grave is the strongest PvE racial available now.
    (333 MAEP for TotG, vs. 300 for Panda Epicurean, and 100-200 for other racials)

    Is the proc really as strong as SP makes it out to be? I don't have the chance to test it out for myself, but I'm almost regretting changing my Undead to a Goblin back in Cata. :P
    Lol I actually regret going from Undead to Goblin in Cata as well, then I went Goblin to Troll not to long ago but I had planned to eventually go Panda or Undead again later in the expansion.

  12. #12
    combat rogue orcs with fists are top if my sim is accurate

  13. #13
    remember it's not just 300 agi you should be comparing as it will gain the passives we have to primaries from "leather spec" or larger sub's passive 30% as well as motw buff,

    so it's really either
    330 ( just motw or just leather passive)
    360 ( motw+ leather pasive)
    420 ( motw + leather + sub)

    which is possibly why it's better. as that 420 is actually 840 AP*1.1 ( raid buff) so 924 AP as well as the crit you will gain from the agi.

    basicaly agi scales well and gets buffed by other things.

    and as stated the racial scales with nothing and is posibbly only buffed by "takes more damg" debuffs upon bosses ( which agi will gain as well ) or posibbly the 5% spell debuf a raid will apply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    What the fuck did you just say.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    Or did they remove being able to use stealth-required moves from Shadowmeld?
    Still works

  15. #15
    Night Elf racial is only a dps gain for sub, and the ambush you trigger the FW with is a costly 60 energy. 60 energy ambushes and essentially 0 damage garrotes wreck it for the other specs- you don't even gain the minimal amount you would expect from upgrading a non-stealthed attack to a stealthed one, as there is no such upgrade to be had.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    remember it's not just 300 agi you should be comparing as it will gain the passives we have to primaries from "leather spec" or larger sub's passive 30% as well as motw buff,

    so it's really either
    330 ( just motw or just leather passive)
    360 ( motw+ leather pasive)
    420 ( motw + leather + sub)

    which is possibly why it's better. as that 420 is actually 840 AP*1.1 ( raid buff) so 924 AP as well as the crit you will gain from the agi.

    basicaly agi scales well and gets buffed by other things.

    and as stated the racial scales with nothing and is posibbly only buffed by "takes more damg" debuffs upon bosses ( which agi will gain as well ) or posibbly the 5% spell debuf a raid will apply.
    Agi is already buffed, and any weights we're generating for agility take both 5%s and, for subtlety, the 30% into account already. The reason agi will be ahead in time, and the undead racial will not is that (as of last mechanical check I saw), agility's DPS-value scales with weapon damage, haste, crit, and mastery. A proc racial with a fixed value increases with ~ possibly haste, but not that much if at all (technically crit too?).
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-12-03 at 10:12 PM.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    I'm surprised how low Troll is, seems like every rogue in a high end guild is Troll .

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Night Elf racial is only a dps gain for sub, and the ambush you trigger the FW with is a costly 60 energy. 60 energy ambushes and essentially 0 damage garrotes wreck it for the other specs- you don't even gain the minimal amount you would expect from upgrading a non-stealthed attack to a stealthed one, as there is no such upgrade to be had.
    yep, and this is why NE needs some help.
    Its still very nice for PvP but apart from a sliiiight buff for Sub (which isn't up to par atm) its no good for raiding.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    I'm surprised how low Troll is, seems like every rogue in a high end guild is Troll .
    I don´t think simulators are considering the use of combo Shadow Blades + Racial - that will make a difference...

  20. #20
    http://shadowpanther.net/races.htm

    pve section shows undead is the strongest o.0... how reliable are the charts anyone know? will totG scale or goblin/ troll haste racial will outscale totG at later tiers ?

    would be good if i can get some answers here xD

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