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  1. #1
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Condescending behaviour towards newer players

    Why is it that so many people treat players, who haven't been there as long as they have, as if they were lesser people. "I've been playing this game since launch" Well, that's great and all, but some of these people believe we should treat them as something special. I see an interesting case of that kind of behaviour in a guild I recently got into. The guild was founded like 2 weeks ago, and after 2 weeks some people started to voice their discontent. In the end, a lot of the "founding members" (I mean the guild is 2 weeks old, come on) left and proclaimed that they are going to make their own guild and everybody, who has been there since the beginning is welcome to join - the rest can fuck off. Now nevermind the maturity of those people, but why do so many players feel the longer you've been there, the more you're worth, even when it's only about a timespan of like 2 weeks.

    If there was a new guy in my guild, I wouldn't think less of him, just because there are other people in this guild, who have been there for years. And I would never look down upon a player, just because he joined the game 8 months ago where other players joined 8 years ago.

    And you see it in a lot of these meme folks with stuff like "If you know this, you're cool" "If you know this your childhood was great". As if growing up in the 80s or 90s somehow makes you a better person.

    Why is that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
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  2. #2
    How does your guild disbanding after 2 weeks have anything whatsoever to do with treating newer players unfairly? I'm sorry but it just looks like your upset about your guild disbanding and want to paint it in a different light.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    How does your guild disbanding after 2 weeks have anything whatsoever to do with treating newer players unfairly? I'm sorry but it just looks like your upset about your guild disbanding and want to paint it in a different light.
    I just see parallels as in "people who have been there longer are worth more". The guild didn't disband, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
    Puke is good. Puke is nice. It fits the WWF Attitude.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Why is it that so many people treat players, who haven't been there as long as they have, as if they were lesser people. "I've been playing this game since launch" Well, that's great and all, but some of these people believe we should treat them as something special. I see an interesting case of that kind of behaviour in a guild I recently got into. The guild was founded like 2 weeks ago, and after 2 weeks some people started to voice their discontent. In the end, a lot of the "founding members" (I mean the guild is 2 weeks old, come on) left and proclaimed that they are going to make their own guild and everybody, who has been there since the beginning is welcome to join - the rest can fuck off. Now nevermind the maturity of those people, but why do so many players feel the longer you've been there, the more you're worth, even when it's only about a timespan of like 2 weeks.

    If there was a new guy in my guild, I wouldn't think less of him, just because there are other people in this guild, who have been there for years. And I would never look down upon a player, just because he joined the game 8 months ago where other players joined 8 years ago.

    And you see it in a lot of these meme folks with stuff like "If you know this, you're cool" "If you know this your childhood was great". As if growing up in the 80s or 90s somehow makes you a better person.

    Why is that.
    It sounds more like people got invited to the guild who then made it something the original members didn't intend for it to be, so they specified original members only because that was the environment they were looking for. I think you're reading in a bit much there.

    As for the rest people like to feel special, one basis for that is seniority/experience and that is usually respected socially. I can't even think of many places irl where some sort of status isn't attached to that.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    It sounds more like people got invited to the guild who then made it something the original members didn't intend for it to be, so they specified original members only because that was the environment they were looking for. I think you're reading in a bit much there.
    You're totally right about that. The problem was that a lot of players felt there were too many people in the guild and it was getting unpersonal. But among the newer guild members there were still nice and cool people. It seemed unreasonably rude to tell those players to go fuck themselves, just because they joined the guild at the wrong moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
    Puke is good. Puke is nice. It fits the WWF Attitude.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    For the guild thing, i often think more of the members who have been in the gulld longer, than those who just joined. I do not look down on the new members, they simply does not have the influence in the guild as the old timers. And for the thing with new WoW players... well I am sick of people sucking... and if they use the excuse "But i am new to the game"... sadly i don't care. I have seen new players performing extremely well because they try, the ones using "but i am new" is often the people who just doesn't wanna try. This applies to all games in my opinion.

  7. #7
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    For the guild thing, i often think more of the members who have been in the gulld longer, than those who just joined. I do not look down on the new members, they simply does not have the influence in the guild as the old timers. And for the thing with new WoW players... well I am sick of people sucking... and if they use the excuse "But i am new to the game"... sadly i don't care. I have seen new players performing extremely well because they try, the ones using "but i am new" is often the people who just doesn't wanna try. This applies to all games in my opinion.
    I have seen older players suck too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
    Puke is good. Puke is nice. It fits the WWF Attitude.

  8. #8
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    It is the age old question. why are some people arseholes and others are nice. Could ofc ask yourself what am I doing that some people treat me this way and others that way.

    Naturally I know, the answer is: It is always them, never me.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    because everyone's got an agenda and when you try to help someone, they usually just spit back in your face. Can't tell me with a straight face that you've never sat down and just wanted to do something yourself, but someone was being obnoxious and you got all like

    I DEW WAAHHT THE FUCK I WANNNNA

    I DONT NEED NO INSTRUCTIONS TO KNOW HOW TO ROCK
    be ready to sacrifice who you are now, at any moment, for who you will become

  10. #10
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    It is the age old question. why are some people arseholes and others are nice. Could ofc ask yourself what am I doing that some people treat me this way and others that way.

    Naturally I know, the answer is: It is always them, never me.
    Well in my defense, I've really not done anything. I was just an innocent bystander.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
    Puke is good. Puke is nice. It fits the WWF Attitude.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    And you see it in a lot of these meme folks with stuff like "If you know this, you're cool" "If you know this your childhood was great". As if growing up in the 80s or 90s somehow makes you a better person.

    Why is that.
    Because compared to the 80s generation this generation is so one dimensional and selfish.

    The 80s generation was the last generation of kids who were self-sufficient (kids worked for their car; they even fixed their own cars themselves...many a boy became shade tree mechanics). They still behaved well at home, in public and at school. They lived in a world were letters were still written and read; where people actually met up to do something; they didn't text, they talked to each other on the phone or in person...and not for 2 minutes. Pizza night was a social event of 20+ guys crashing the local pizzeria (Papa Johns; Pizza Hut, Godfather's and the rest were just beginning, so you went to the local shop instead). Most cared less about politics, and if any did, they weren't polarized. Music was fantastic, the start of a music era that revolutionized what people considered as modern music...it was fun music for the most part, not this grunge junk or music to commit suicide over. Schools were schools not prisons, complete with gangs and metal detectors -- boys learned to fight with their fists, not some cowardly 9mm, and knew darn right they'd have their hide tanned if they did, so they didn't fight at a drop of a hat.

    And we didn't have a vocabulary that included words like "retard".
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Because compared to the 80s generation this generation is so one dimensional and selfish.

    The 80s generation was the last generation of kids who were self-sufficient (kids worked for their car; they even fixed their own cars themselves...many a boy became shade tree mechanics). They still behaved well at home, in public and at school. They lived in a world were letters were still written and read; where people actually met up to do something; they didn't text, they talked to each other on the phone or in person...and not for 2 minutes. Pizza night was a social event of 20+ guys crashing the local pizzeria (Papa Johns; Pizza Hut, Godfather's and the rest were just beginning, so you went to the local shop instead). Most cared less about politics, and if any did, they weren't polarized. Music was fantastic, the start of a music era that revolutionized what people considered as modern music...it was fun music for the most part, not this grunge junk or music to commit suicide over. Schools were schools not prisons, complete with gangs and metal detectors -- boys learned to fight with their fists, not some cowardly 9mm, and knew darn right they'd have their hide tanned if they did, so they didn't fight at a drop of a hat.

    And we didn't have a vocabulary that included words like "retard".
    People still do all of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
    Puke is good. Puke is nice. It fits the WWF Attitude.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    You're totally right about that. The problem was that a lot of players felt there were too many people in the guild and it was getting unpersonal. But among the newer guild members there were still nice and cool people. It seemed unreasonably rude to tell those players to go fuck themselves, just because they joined the guild at the wrong moment.
    Guilds are private social clubs. The idea of a lot of people is they're like some church, but they're not. It's usually a few friends who start one up and invite others in the hope they'll mesh with them. If they don't they usually move onto another guild, and they have every right to do so.

    Not everyone is going to mesh well together, and sticking to a guild that no longer is their idea would be like playing in a prison.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  14. #14
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    There are now and always have been as long have people have been writing about it people that attempt to enlarge their own self-image at the expense of others. There's more examples of this than I can even list but it's quite true that there are people who have been around for a while who imagine that everyone who hasn't been in the game since vanilla are somehow 'lesser'.

    You don't have to think very long to see the many ways in which people mistreat others because they are somehow different or excluded from the group, whatever the group may be (guilds qualify), because of this.

    It's not generational or anything else; it's human nature.

    And we didn't have a vocabulary that included words like "retard".
    In the 60's I think we called them a 'spaz'. It was a long time ago and there have been a lot of years and controlled substances under the bridge since then. Don't pretend as if your generation is somehow superior to others. Different: yes. We didn't have the word 'fanboi' around then either: a word, I might add, that is used entirely too often by people pretending that they're somehow superior.

    Glass houses Keyvne.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2012-12-02 at 10:25 PM.
    A bit of civility and respect for others opinions goes a long way toward getting any respect in return. Overly hostile, profane and insulting posts are a sign that people don't really have anything to say. Profanity is best served out in very small doses.

    "Forum drama exists because people enjoy creating it." - ML/2013

  15. #15
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Guilds are private social clubs. The idea of a lot of people is they're like some church, but they're not. It's usually a few friends who start one up and invite others in the hope they'll mesh with them. If they don't they usually move onto another guild, and they have every right to do so.

    Not everyone is going to mesh well together, and sticking to a guild that no longer is their idea would be like playing in a prison.
    Yeah I can understand that a few players are not happy so they leave. But why tell all the newer players to go fuck off. If I was in that situation I would say "sorry, but this isn't going in the direction we imagined, we are going to make our own guild, if you'd like to join we would be happy to invite you"

    Why is it that players who joined 2 weeks ago are good for the guild, but players who joined 1 week ago are crap?

    The problem was that the guild master invited so many people that some players felt it got very impersonal. But there wasn't anything wrong with the players themselves. They were really all very nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
    Puke is good. Puke is nice. It fits the WWF Attitude.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer leaks's Avatar
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    So they can feel good about themselves. I really wish it was more complicated than that but it isn't. It's about feeling superior, end of story. They are too lazy and/or self absorbed to help anyone and are content sitting on their thrones while looking down upon the ignorant masses. God it's depressing to even type this but that's the pathetic truth of it all. It's just a natural human reaction that very few people seem capable of using their brains enough to overcome.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    In the 60's I think we called them a 'spaz'. It was a long time ago and there have been a lot of years and controlled substances under the bridge since then. Don't pretend as if your generation is somehow superior to others. Different: yes. We didn't have the word 'fanboi' around then either: a word, I might add, that is used entirely too often by people pretending that they're somehow superior.

    Glass houses Keyvne.
    Did "spaz" refer to a population that has to be protected for their own good?

    Talking about glass houses, Moana, think about those rocks.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  18. #18
    The ostracized like to ostracize.
    You now stand before the Countess.
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  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Yeah I can understand that a few players are not happy so they leave. But why tell all the newer players to go fuck off.
    Their guild, their rules.

    It's a private club.

    No one is putting a gun to other people's heads and forcing them to stay. You always have the option of leaving and even creating your own private club, and make your own rules. With how fast guilds/rep can be made, whatever is lost can be made up within weeks with just 10 people playing.

    And then, now, you can have your own Utopia.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  20. #20
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Their guild, their rules.

    It's a private club.

    No one is putting a gun to other people's heads and forcing them to stay. You always have the option of leaving and even creating your own private club, and make your own rules. With how fast guilds/rep can be made, whatever is lost can be made up within weeks with just 10 people playing.

    And then, now, you can have your own Utopia.
    That's not the point. I don't want to discuss whether they have the right to do whatever they do, I'm trying to find the logic in their behaviour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince McMahon
    Puke is good. Puke is nice. It fits the WWF Attitude.

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