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  1. #241
    I preferred clicking when playing a holy priest: selecting targets on my raidframes (whether with click or mouse-over) and then (when I already have my cursor over the raidframe) using keyboard bindings to cast the actual heals just felt weird.
    Instead I had everything (except for rarely used spells and CDs) assigned to mousebuttons - left button "Heal", middle button "Renew", right button "Greater Heal", Back button "Prayer of Mending", Shift+left button "Flash Heal". Ctrl+Shift+left button "Binding Heal", Shift+Right Button "Dispel", ...

    Only used keybinds in movement-heavy situations (e.g. Alysrazor), otherwise my mouse hovered over the raidframes (Grid + Clique) the whole time and movement was handled with WASD.

    On dps specs I prefer key bindings.
    Last edited by florestan; 2012-12-04 at 08:47 AM.

  2. #242
    Brewmaster Tucci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/22...d-vanguards-7/

    Mr Vanguard suggests otherwise. What do you think?
    I should've just linked that or something similar instead of replying a million times, lol. It's just so frustrating to see so many people think that clicking is totally fine.
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  3. #243
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    I'm not talking about just paladins. Pally is one of the only classes I don't really play. But you need to use Hammer of Justice, BoP, Repent, bubble, freedom and dps abilities to help kill along with your heals.
    All things you can click. Macros (especially target of target) are clickable.
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  4. #244
    Brewmaster Tucci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    All things you can click. Macros (especially target of target) are clickable.
    Yes, you can click them...but you don't want to, lol. That's the point. Anyways, I seriously urge you to just click the link that guy just posted, it'll tell you everything and it's from an extremely high rated paladin. I really don't want to keep replying with the same thing.
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  5. #245
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    Yes, you can click them...but you don't want to, lol. That's the point. Anyways, I seriously urge you to just click the link that guy just posted, it'll tell you everything and it's from an extremely high rated paladin. I really don't want to keep replying with the same thing.
    Modifiers:


    Keybinds in WoW allow modifiers that allows you to do more with your keyboard. It would be quite hard to fit all the abilities needed in PvP without it! Modifiers are buttons you press along with another to use an ability. In my binds here I've covered modifiers such as "Alt", "Shift", and "Control". For example, my exorcism ability it is Shift+A.
    CTRL+SHIFT+7 rings a bell?
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  6. #246
    Brewmaster juzalol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    In PvP you don't use all of your abilities because things like HR and LoD are pointless in all of that burst damage. And since you're move so much, HS becomes the major heal as well as WoG and FoL. If I had 4 buttons that are comfortable to use, that would be essentially all I need to keybind to a mouse (HS/FoL/WoG/Cleanse). The rest can be clicked, simply due to their ad hoc usage and slowness (DL is a perfect example of a heal that unless the enemy is incapacitated or out of counters, will get interrupted, so no point keybinding it).

    You have the basics at hand, and the ad hoc spells where you can have quick access too. The idea that you need even 10 keybinds is stupid. When I did arena had about 4 tops, and all clickable. And before you chime in about "you never got higher than 1500", it wasn't due to keybinds. It was due to players who would not play arena as arena should be played (no matter how many videos forwarded for them to watch what a healer is suppose to do -- especially avoiding casters, and practicing LoS healing -- they proceed to fight smack in the middle and ALWAYS OoR of heals in the process). A healer can not heal well under those conditions as they will be stunned/silenced and trained. If I had team mates that played arena not like a Goldshire duel, I could've reached higher rating. But kids are too impatient to learn about teamwork, only their meters..."but, but, I healed you for 80k!"...if I wasn't playing midfield I wouldn't have needed it, now YOU'RE out of your big heal, and we're both stuck fighting like n00bs in Madison Square! (he rage quit, as I was tired of playing midfield where I didn't belong, clutch situations yes, but not as some standard).

    Oh, and to add to this story about the rage quitter: Naga mouse and all the Ret keybinds. He transferred to another server and got another Ret to carry him to 1800. After that, he proceeded to spend the rest of his months (without the enchants and gems even) @ 1500 rating (despite his teammates working at 1700 level). So please don't tell me that keybinds matter.
    The whole post screams for being an excuse to not learn to use keybinds.

    Maybe your friend is stuck at 1500 ratings because he has no enchants or gems and is just generally an awful player?

    Using keybinds doesn't automatically make you a good player. It's a tool which allows you become one. Same as clicking doesn't
    automatically make you an awful player. It just limits your performance. Surely if you are an amazing clicker you can be on equal
    level with and average keybinder but simply spreading out your buttons for multiple fingers and both hands will just make you perform
    better.

    Clicking require more effort for less performance. It's not efficient and limits the mouse usage for camera control and movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post

    CTRL+SHIFT+7 rings a bell?
    That's a fucking retarded example. It's like saying clicking is close to impossible and linking a video with all icons
    being sized 2x2 pixels randomly spread across the screen while having an addon to constantly move them around
    while you try to click them.

    you can have 50+ keybinds without needing to move your hand at all and only using shift as a modifier.
    [F1-F4, §123456, qerty, sfgh, <zxcvb + shift mods].
    Last edited by juzalol; 2012-12-04 at 08:54 AM.

  7. #247
    A good measure for click vs. keybinding in PvE would be looking at WoL active time and comparing people that do one vs. the other with a hybrid setup that mixes each to see what kind of comparison can be drawn. I know personally (Tank perspective) I keep my base rotation on keybinds and cover other abilities that i may not use 100% with mouse clicks. Even with what some may consider a slower setup it works for me, and I consistently get anywhere from 96-103% efficiency no problem even with a 1 sec GCD.
    I will agree that if someone has terrible spacial awareness that they need to learn keybinding since they will be a bad player otherwise without it, but this whole exercise seems like a test of reaction time and awareness of the individual which varies widely from person to person. If someone can click, watch their abilities, and everything going on around them within the time limit given to them (1-1.5 second GCD) then what does it matter which they use?

  8. #248
    Brewmaster Tucci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    [B]

    CTRL+SHIFT+7 rings a bell?
    I don't get what you're trying to say. Yes, ctrl+shift+7 is stupid, which is why no one would use it, it's inconvenient...but examples such as shift+f, alt+1, ctrl+v or ANY modifier used with a button on your mouse is easy and convenient. It makes it so you don't have to reach all the way across your keyboard and makes focus binds easier.

    Also, when you're starting out, don't worry about modifiers or focus macros, set your binds to where you want them and where they feel comfortable, then work your way up. It gets easier as you go. I could literally pick up any class right now and within an hour be playing it fairly well. My account's not on so I've been playing this level 20 trial druid I'm trying to twink. So far at level 20 with 2 days of play I have macros that will cancel my form and "intervene" my mouseover target with wild charge but only when it's friendly. Cat form leap or focus leap, bear form charge or focus charge, travel form leap, aquatic form sprint...this is all on about 2 macros and only has to do with 1 ability. I have roots and focus roots, cat form to stealth from any form on one button, travel, aquatic or cat form depending on where I am. I have bear form growl (taunt) bound because I noticed it's not on the global cooldown and automatically puts you in bear which means I can use an ability such as rejuv on myself and instantly go back to bear. I've learned all these things and got used to them because I don't worry about where my buttons are on my bar and I know that macros and modifiers make me a much better player.
    Last edited by Tucci; 2012-12-04 at 09:02 AM.
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  9. #249
    Bloodsail Admiral HavelTheRock's Avatar
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    Keybinding is obviously a much more efficient way of playing, but hey if you can click all your abilities and not hold the group back, kudos to you.

    Personally I keybind everything, even Hearthstone. I use my mouse too much to move camera and turn to be able to click.

  10. #250
    I am a hybrid, I have all of my core abilities bound but I might just as well click them if there is no/little movement required for the moment, usually I find myself using key for every other ability and clicking the others, this gives me pretty much double the time to think what to click and what to cast with keyboard next plus I can use nonmacroed off gcd abilities at exactly the same time with any other ability very easily, this could be quite hard in some cases with only keybinds. One benefit of clicking is that it makes you better at clicking and you can't have all your abilities bound anyway so when you actually have to click something you will do it very fast, personally I can click anything in .4 secs or less (this leaves atleast .6 secs time to do something else with your mouse) with 99.9% precision thanks to being a hybrid.

    Edit: In defense of clickers, if you have to move and jumping doesn't hinder your performance in the situation you're just fine as clicker as long as you click in less than .8 secs.
    Last edited by Jpp; 2012-12-04 at 09:24 AM.

  11. #251
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    Clicking is slower = Worse

  12. #252
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    There's always a lot of debate going on about click vs keybind.
    Let me try some other aspect of analysis.

    Keybinds are likely the most efficient way once someone can master it. It has it's advantages that cannot be denied.
    Yet, at the same time. It is easy to say that this playstyle is used rather by a minority. One can say, it's the geek way of playing.
    The majority of people plays with their mouse. Then there's another group that plays with a slight hybrid style, where they use the keyboard for a few things, but mainly use their mouse.
    I do not believe that either side has any right to tell the other side what they suppose to do.
    If you can handle to do the following flawless:
    1. assign and memorize up to 20+ different abilities to keys,
    2. flawlessly hit those keys and key combinations anytime,
    then more power to you. It's awesome, and your game results are likely of higher reward to you.

    Now, if you cannot do what I just said. If your abilities to handle your keyboard aren't anywhere near that of a professional secretary, or data entry specialist. If you struggle to find your way around the keyboard with "2 finger radar system" then don't use keybinds. You can just as well play the game without them, by using your mouse only.
    There really is no need, nor requirement to become a typing professional. And keybind style can backfire at you, if you aren't savvy enough to hit the right keys.
    How do you know? Well..... If you run into typos when writing, that's where keybinds backfire. The more typos you do, the more you should stay away from keybinds.
    Typo equals wrong key hit in the game, and that can do a lot of unwanted things.
    I think, it's a reason why many people do play hybrid.
    Either way, no side should look down on the other. Everyone plays to their likes and abilities they are comfortable with.

  13. #253
    Durendil is a clicker <3

  14. #254
    The Patient
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    What is keyboard turning?

  15. #255
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    I don't get what you're trying to say. Yes, ctrl+shift+7 is stupid, which is why no one would use it, it's inconvenient...but examples such as shift+f, alt+1, ctrl+v or ANY modifier used with a button on your mouse is easy and convenient. It makes it so you don't have to reach all the way across your keyboard and makes focus binds easier.
    What you're forgetting is to use such a modifier macro you must stand still. Standing still is no better than clicking...same time to use (actually longer).

    This is a problem when using conditionals.

    Works well with melee, as melee has to stand and hit a target. But for casters who often have to kite, standing still can get you killed. FDK around you have to move.
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  16. #256
    theres a good reason certain abilities should be keybound.

    clicking abilities for your rotation is inefficient if you are GCD capped.

    also, for things like interrupts, being quick matters. even if you are godlike with a mouse, it still is slower than a keypress.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    What you're forgetting is to use such a modifier macro you must stand still. Standing still is no better than clicking...same time to use (actually longer).
    No using modifiers while moving is perfectly fine.

  18. #258
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    No using modifiers while moving is perfectly fine.
    ALT+F is easy to reach without looking?

    BS, and you know it.

    Such keybinds are made for someone who has the time to stand still to use that combo (for that dude, being a Ret) or bought a G15 type keyboard with banks of macro keys.

    Expecting everyone to invest in $100 keyboards to play for some ideal, is like me requiring you to use a $200 headset with amplifier to play WoW (because the pros do).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    ALT+F is easy to reach without looking?

    BS, and you know it.

    Such keybinds are made for someone who has the time to stand still to use that combo (for that dude, being a Ret) or bought a G15 type keyboard with banks of macro keys.

    Expecting everyone to invest in $100 keyboards to play for some ideal, is like me requiring you to use a $200 headset with amplifier to play WoW (because the pros do).
    Can you hit F while holding W to run? if that's the case putting your thumb on alt shouldnt be that hard, unless your hands are the tiniest on the planet.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    ALT+F is easy to reach without looking?

    BS, and you know it.

    Such keybinds are made for someone who has the time to stand still to use that combo (for that dude, being a Ret) or bought a G15 type keyboard with banks of macro keys.

    Expecting everyone to invest in $100 keyboards to play for some ideal, is like me requiring you to use a $200 headset with amplifier to play WoW (because the pros do).
    The reason you are saying something like this is because you never used keybinds before....

    Get used to it. No problem. I use all my keybinds without seeing them.

    If you are worried about possible tiny lag time between you can jump(which will make you to keep moving even if you take the hands off) and use stuff at the same time. Or just put something that you will use when you don't need to move.

    It applies to every keyboard - I used crappy free keyboards, laptop keyboards, and gaming keyboards, but type of keyboard is really non issue here.
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2012-12-04 at 10:03 AM.

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