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  1. #81
    keybinds are like way better in everyway, plus u practice shits to learn them and stuff

    seriously to all the clickers bind all your stuff (even mounts and shits)

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    That depends on how you setup your UI.

    I have mine setup to be quick in clicking (all my healing abilities are right next to the heal box, so clicking is as fast as moving a hand to a keybind, if not faster as the #9 key is pretty far away from #1).

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 09:01 PM ----------



    Actually, ask Microsoft why Windows XP remains popular even to this day, despite Windows 7.

    It's because Windows XP was out for so long and people got used to it. People (and especially businesses) don't like "down time" trying to relearn. Just look at the flak MS got over Windows 8, they had to add a START button to it.

    It's just human nature, and any game design has to factor that in.
    What you're saying is completely irrelevant to my analogy of horse versus car. I didn't say whether the 1989 Ford Mustang 5.0GT was better or worse than the 1994 version. I just said driving a car is better than riding a horse in terms of efficiency and speed.

    Oh, and one trump card that will ALWAYS make keybinding infinitely superior to clicking: mouseover macros, especially conditional mouseover macros. And if you do not know what I'm talking about, it likely won't make a difference if you click or keybind for you specifically. [ya ya, that's a very cocky elitist thing to say, but in this case, it's also true].

  3. #83
    The Patient Valkari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Do you count click healing? That's not generally considered "clicking", but that has many positives:
    • Saves the targeting click
    • Frees up binds for other abilities
    • Raid frames are usually placed in such a way as to maintain raid awareness
    • Accurate and fast healing on any target in the raid

    Click healers still have to deal with keyboard turning or just not doing anything while moving, but it's the only way to raid heal effectively. It's not real "clicking" though because you still have to use mouseover binds. Some people don't even click heal with l/r mouse buttons and only use mouseover binds.
    I'm not sure I understand how mouseover binds combine with clicking... The whole idea of mouseover healing is that you never click anything, just bind all your heals to a mouseover macro, hover your mouse over people that need heals in your raid frame, and push the bind.

    OT: I feel that keybinding is vastly superior, as it frees up your mouse and eyes to be moving/paying attention to your surroundings. In a raiding situation, that's very valuable.
    Last edited by Valkari; 2012-12-04 at 03:02 AM.

  4. #84
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phayze View Post
    Oh, and one trump card that will ALWAYS make keybinding infinitely superior to clicking: mouseover macros, especially conditional mouseover macros.
    Tell me how useful that is now when raids are based on dexterity, not casting in place?

    Oh, is it because you don't use a mouse to move?

    ADDED: And conditional macros can be clicked, too. All macros offer a button icon.
    Last edited by Kevyne-Shandris; 2012-12-04 at 03:07 AM.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  5. #85
    While I do have most things keybound, i still find myself watching the action bars for timers. I'm not going to use any CD watching things for there is already too much crap on the screen as is. However, I have found that mining or herbing is slower using the mouse to move, because you cant click and move at the same time, and usually end up at just the right height where you can't use the node because you are flying.

  6. #86
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkari View Post
    The whole idea of mouseover healing is that you never click anything, just bind all your heals to a mouseover macro, hover your mouse over people that need heals in your raid frame, and push the bind.
    -_-

    Seriously?
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  7. #87
    Dreadlord Tucci's Avatar
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    There was a thread not long ago that was titled "Click or keybind? That is the question" I'll copy and paste my reply here because people need to be aware that, no matter how long you've been clicking, it's still a mistake.

    1000% Keybind
    There's no alternative. If you aren't binding, you aren't playing to your full potential, period. Clicking is a beginner mistake, most people not familiar with this type of game make this mistake. I made it, my friends made it and people in my guild still do it, some of which have been playing since Vanilla. It can be hard to try and help people who click because they immediately go on the defensive and assume you're calling them bad players. You WILL NOT find high level players anywhere on any site recommend clicking. You're never going to be playing better than someone who binds and has the same experience. You may think, oh well, I've been playing for years and I do fine...well there's what you feel is fine and reality. You will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage in this game as a clicker, especially in pvp. I bind everything...all abilities and cooldowns, food and mounts mainly for pvp purposes, healthstones and similar items...the only thing I don't bind is my hearth. Macros are another thing you need to get comfortable with if you want to be a good player. I've been completely out of macro space since beginning of Cata. I promise once you learn these 2 things you will never ever look back. Clicking comes with the 2 worst things you can do in this game, keyboard turning and backpedaling...making you slow and a perfect target in pvp.

    I started by using ~ through 4 or 5, then moved on to some letters, mainly F. Now I'm using pretty much everything near my left hand, ~-6, R, T, F, G, H, V, B, F1, F2 and just about every button on the side of a Razer Naga. Now I also use all these buttons with modifiers which are Shift, ctrl and alt. Trust me, once you combine multiple binds, macros and modifiers, you start to see the real difference between clicking and binding. It's not hard and becomes second nature when you get used to it.

    I always tell people it's like this: You can play a piano with both hands and read your music or you can stare at your keys and point to and play each key with a stick.
    Last edited by Tucci; 2012-12-04 at 03:08 AM.
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  8. #88
    The Patient Valkari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    -_-

    Seriously?
    Uh, yeah? Pushing a bind is a motion of the finger on a keyboard key, unless my lingo is off.

  9. #89
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    1000% Keybind
    There's no alternative. If you aren't binding, you aren't playing to your full potential, period.
    Prove it today.

    Can't, because of all the options to get away from the default UI (which is b-a-d for function, as it's in a horrible location and limits how many items are shown at a time). Those with custom UIs don't have that problem at all, and they can compete with those using keybinds.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  10. #90
    There is honestly no real benefit to clicking versus using keybinds. You basically spend all your processing power and thus time to move the mouse cursor to a button (or back and forth from a target if you heal. Using mouseover, or clicking macroes is not really clicking in the sense we are talking here). What you lose is all the juice that is muscle memory, which you utilize to the fullest if you use keybinds. Not using keybinds is thus making you perform at a much lesser capacity, following from the fact that you spend time processing where to move the mouse cursor instead of looking at what happends around you.

    To an extreme, you are essentially trying to write with clicking each letter on a virtual keyboard instead of using two hands to write a whole lot faster.

  11. #91
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Prove it today.

    Can't, because of all the options to get away from the default UI (which is b-a-d for function, as it's in a horrible location and limits how many items are shown at a time). Those with custom UIs don't have that problem at all, and they can compete with those using keybinds.
    Ask how many gladiators are clickers, how many of the main raiders of the best 5 PvE guilds in the world are clickers? I think you'll unsurprisingly find that they are keybinders - and for good reason. Go to Twitch.tv and look up some gladiator streams. Do they click? No. Can you tell me why they do not click?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by cywang86 View Post
    Plus, if you keybind stuffs with shift, you'll realize it's faster (and much less strain on your pinky. seriously, how many people can click shift 3 times a minute during a raid and not go nuts?) to click than to move your pinky over to shift then use the keybind.
    And believe me, if you wish to keybind everything to a reachable distance, ctrl is not enough.
    I suppose that would have to depend on hand size and positioning, but where exactly is your pinky sitting during usual WASD hand position? Mine is right on the shift key, and very easily moved down a tad to hit the ctrl.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetriss View Post
    I am doing a research paper on how clicking is less efficient than keybinding. I need a counterargument to the positives of clicking, and i also need reasons why clicking is worse than keybinding. I was hoping i could come here to get some ideas from you guys.
    I can't believe no one asked this on the first couple pages, what major/profession are you in that has you doing a research paper on clicking vs. keybinds.

  14. #94
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkari View Post
    Uh, yeah? Pushing a bind is a motion of the finger on a keyboard key, unless my lingo is off.
    Mouseovers work without clicking at all. You HOVER your mouse over targets.

    Conditionals require clicking keys to activate.

    Mouseover worked pre-Cata, as there wasn't much moving (except in PvP). You could just stand there and mouse heal a raid for 5mins straight. Now you're moving with the same device used for movement.

    Now in a fight that you're running from the bad stuff using your mouse, how are you to mouse over again? Keyboard WASD?

    This is why the whole mouseover stuff went the way of the Dodo from Cata onward. Rarely is it mentioned anymore as a primary way to use abilities. Those still using it do so as a preference, it's not anymore faster than clicking (especially in a healbox).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  15. #95
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    I'd love it if you answered my question posed a few posts up, Kevyne. ^.^

  16. #96
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinoa View Post
    Ask how many gladiators are clickers, how many of the main raiders of the best 5 PvE guilds in the world are clickers? I think you'll unsurprisingly find that they are keybinders - and for good reason. Go to Twitch.tv and look up some gladiator streams. Do they click? No. Can you tell me why they do not click?
    How many gladiators are healers again? You do realize the game isn't all about DPS, right?

    Top raiders in PvE have preferences.

    It still comes down to how you play, and how you prefer to play, and your own reaction times. I'm a very fast clicker, so I know I don't have performance issues in landing the right heal at the right time. Same for others who setup their UI for it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 10:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rinoa View Post
    I'd love it if you answered my question posed a few posts up, Kevyne. ^.^
    There. ^.^

    You can't argue about preferences. It's like asking guys do they prefer boxers or briefs.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  17. #97
    The Patient Valkari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Mouseovers work without clicking at all. You HOVER your mouse over targets.

    Conditionals require clicking keys to activate.

    Mouseover worked pre-Cata, as there wasn't much moving (except in PvP). You could just stand there and mouse heal a raid for 5mins straight. Now you're moving with the same device used for movement.

    Now in a fight that you're running from the bad stuff using your mouse, how are you to mouse over again? Keyboard WASD?

    This is why the whole mouseover stuff went the way of the Dodo from Cata onward. Rarely is it mentioned anymore as a primary way to use abilities. Those still using it do so as a preference, it's not anymore faster than clicking (especially in a healbox).
    Well, admittedly, I haven't actually healed a raid regularly since TBC (tank now), though I still use them just fine in heroics and such. That being said, I know at least two of our healers in raid (which heal at the same level as the guy using healbot) do just fine with it, so I'm sure it still works.

    Also, in a conversation about clicking vs keybinding, using the word clicking in relation to keyboard keys is fairly missleading.

  18. #98
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    How many gladiators are healers again? You do realize the game isn't all about DPS, right?

    Top raiders in PvE have preferences.

    It still comes down to how you play, and how you prefer to play, and your own reaction times. I'm a very fast clicker, so I know I don't have performance issues in landing the right heal at the right time. Same for others who setup their UI for it.
    I'd say around 30% of gladiators are healers. Not every gladiator team is the conventional 2 dps/1 healer setup, so it's not exactly one third. And yes, everyone has personal preferences.

    Since you say that everyone has preferences, is what I should take from that sentence that you believe it's a coincidence that clicking is practically non-existant at the upper levels of gameplay? That it has nothing to do with the performance of keybinding compared to clicking?

  19. #99
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkari View Post
    Also, in a conversation about clicking vs keybinding, using the word clicking in relation to keyboard keys is fairly missleading.
    As long as you're using the keyboard or mouse to execute a command...it's clicking.

    Remove the keyboard and/or mouse, you can't execute the commands anymore.

    We all do click.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  20. #100
    You're going to have trouble with your paper OP in regards to 'Advantages' of Clicking ... Because there is none.

    I don't mean to sound insulting to people that click, because I completely understand as I was a clicker for a very long time, but there truly is no advantages to it whatsoever.

    I'd say the only disadvantage to keybinding is simply that it can take awhile to get used to your new binds. It took me especially long to get used to R and F simply because I'd been so used to them being Reply and Target of Target which I used heavily. Other then that It is a more efficient and better way of playing and will improve your rotations and general play heaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    We all do click.
    Stupid or Trolling. Based off your comments I've seen on some other threads, I'm going to go with Trolling... (For your sake I hope not Stupid)

    Keep it civil
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-12-04 at 08:43 PM.

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