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  1. #1
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Is Jaina out of character?

    Was just wondering with the purge and the slaughter of Hordes what's wrong with Jaina? It seems so unlike her, even after the Horde destroyed Theramore. The old Jaina would have tried other options I feel, I mean it's not like this is the first act of violence she's seen... Has the Sha of hatred gotten hold of her mind or something?

    P.S. It's not as if I dislike the 'new' Jaina, just seems ... well.... 'off'.

  2. #2
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    I hadn't really considered them adding that as a possibility, but now that you mention it that'd probably be the easiest explanation to implement.

    Personally, I think she's just finally snapped...lost it...gone nuts. Whatever you want to say. There's no arguing with a crazy person.

    Take them out of their homes, and if they try to protect their right to live there, slaughter them! Otherwise, throw them to rot in jail for who knows how long even if they're innocent!

    I suppose we'll have to rely on Varian, now?

  3. #3
    Warchief Flutterguy's Avatar
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    Are people really trying to pretend Jaina just woke up one morning and decided she had a hankering for Sunreaver blood?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by velde046 View Post
    Was just wondering with the purge and the slaughter of Hordes what's wrong with Jaina? It seems so unlike her, even after the Horde destroyed Theramore. The old Jaina would have tried other options I feel, I mean it's not like this is the first act of violence she's seen... Has the Sha of hatred gotten hold of her mind or something?

    P.S. It's not as if I dislike the 'new' Jaina, just seems ... well.... 'off'.
    Her immediate reaction in the book was to take the Eye of Eternity and use it to augment her powers to make thousands of giant water elementals to crash over Orgrimmar in a wave, flooding it and killing every man, woman and child in the city.

    Christie Golden does a good job of explaining her break down in the book. After years and years and years of being the only person in the entire world(it feels to her) fighting for peace between the Horde and Alliance, Garrosh attacks her unprovoked even though Theramore is a neutral city that wants peace with everyone so she can't interfere with his plans to conquer all of Kalimdor. And he doesn't just attack it, he does the Azeroth equivalent of dropping an atomic bomb on it.

    She finally cracked, but Thrall(who she ultimately blames for the whole thing, because he's the one who let Garrosh become Warchief) talked her down(after a fight that was pretty uninteresting considering it was between the world's strongest Shaman and the world's strongest Mage) and she agreed to not kill every one in Orgrimmar. And then a couple months later, Garrosh uses her city as an unwitting staging point for an attack on Darnassus. She's just finally snapped and is choosing the side that Garrosh is forcing her to.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    Are people really trying to pretend Jaina just woke up one morning and decided she had a hankering for Sunreaver blood?
    Judging by the wording of what she says and the titles/descriptions of the some of the Horde quests, something happens that Jaina considers a forced violation of Kirin Tor neutrality by Garrosh that causes her to consider the neutrality agreement null and void. Something along the lines of Garrosh ordering the Sunreavers to betray the Kiring Tor.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    She has been shattered. Emotionally, mentally, partially physically.
    Years after years after years after YEARS of trying to make people listen to reason, of trying to keep the peace, of trying to set an example.
    Pleading and talking and pleading and talking.. trying to do the right thing. Trying to be that beacon of light in an ever-darkening world, and having half of that world resent her, and the other half ignore her.

    And then, one nuclear (mana)bomb destroyed everything. Everything she worked for. Everything she stood for. Everything she tried to be.
    Dropped by the person put in charge by the orc she saw as her best friend, her listening ear, her shoulder to cry on.

    She's something else now.
    I don't blame her one smidge for the decisions she's making.

    "She's gone crazy" or "she's gone out of character" doesn't do her justice. She's responded to events that have happened to her in a volatile way. I'm not sure I would've responded differently, in her position.

    This is of course, also what I told her when she asked me, during the Operation:Shieldwall questline.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  7. #7
    Warchief Flutterguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    Her immediate reaction in the book was to take the Eye of Eternity and use it to augment her powers to make thousands of giant water elementals to crash over Orgrimmar in a wave, flooding it and killing every man, woman and child in the city.

    Christie Golden does a good job of explaining her break down in the book. After years and years and years of being the only person in the entire world(it feels to her) fighting for peace between the Horde and Alliance, Garrosh attacks her unprovoked even though Theramore is a neutral city that wants peace with everyone so she can't interfere with his plans to conquer all of Kalimdor. And he doesn't just attack it, he does the Azeroth equivalent of dropping an atomic bomb on it.

    She finally cracked, but Thrall(who she ultimately blames for the whole thing, because he's the one who let Garrosh become Warchief) talked her down(after a fight that was pretty uninteresting considering it was between the world's strongest Shaman and the world's strongest Mage) and she agreed to not kill every one in Orgrimmar. And then a couple months later, Garrosh uses her city as an unwitting staging point for an attack on Darnassus. She's just finally snapped and is choosing the side that Garrosh is forcing her to.
    And then she gives the Sunreavers an opportunity to leave before forcing them to. I mean Jaina tends to do a pretty damn good job of not just wiping them out of existence with a thought.

  8. #8
    The Patient nairobi13's Avatar
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    Aye it's best to read the book to get a proper look into how she is how she is now. Can't fault the writing. Had me hooked!
    Quote Originally Posted by peteypuff View Post
    I'd be the first motherfucker to find a new alien life form... and fuck it. And people would be like, "There he goes, homeboy fucked a martian once."
    Lilun Gnum Rouge

  9. #9
    Moderator Baiyn's Avatar
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    I think she is acting in a way that is very atypical to her established character, but its not an infeasible development. Losing just one person you care about can be devastating and potentially lead you to act in a way that you usually wouldn't, especially if you felt responsible for their safety and, as such, failed to protect them. Jaina's had that happen with an entire city-state full of people! She's bound to be a little emotionally unstable and lacking in judgement, to say the least, as a consequence of such a massive and sudden loss.

  10. #10
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    She's something else now.
    I don't blame her one smidge for the decisions she's making.

    "She's gone crazy" or "she's gone out of character" doesn't do her justice. She's responded to events that have happened to her in a volatile way. I'm not sure I would've responded differently, in her position.
    I'm not sure I would have either, but I'm not convinced that Blizzard has done the best job focusing on her character changes. Especially when it comes to changes that aren't shown entirely in games and require people to immerse themselves in the books as well for all of the lore. I'm sure many players would be confused because it's almost like you look at her for years and she's a neutral and peacemaking pacifist, and then a couple of major events happen and suddenly she comes across as almost downright evil. To some it would look as if she's just had a massive personality transplant and she's not herself anymore.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    Garrosh attacks her unprovoked even though Theramore is a neutral city that wants peace with everyone
    I am not defending Garrosh Actions, but Theramore was anything but a neutral city.

    You can discuss the neutrality of Theramore from Classic - Wotlk, but Theramore was a staging point for the Barrens Campaign of the Alliance and the only source of Reinforcement was a giant highway through Dustwallow that starts exactly at Theramore's gates.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    "Slaughter"? She imprisons the vast majority, the quest text even implied that those that didn't go willingly were the ones who first raised arms.

    It's a little different than what we've seen because Jaina has never really been on the receiving end of any if the Horde's atrocities and has never had to personally react to them, and she's actually gone about it quite level headedly.

    People moan about her "hating the Horde" the fact is at no point during the purge of Dalaran does she come across as a hateful individual. Heck Theramore's destruction actually pushed her closer to the Horde than further away. Then when she's betrayed for a second time she imprisons them, she doesn't go out and butcher them as people seem to act like. After she finds the portal she seems to acknowledge that it wasn't all of them when she says "certain members of the Kirin Tor".

    After a betrayal for the second time such as that it is absolutely reasonable to imprison them all so that there is no chance of any of them conspiring a third time with a WMD which seems to be their speciality.

    What could she have done other than imprison them that wouldn't have possibly put more lives at risk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I am not defending Garrosh Actions, but Theramore was anything but a neutral city.
    Well the problem with Theramore wasn't the fact it was a target, but much rather the method.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-12-11 at 02:38 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Well the problem with Theramore wasn't the fact it was a target, but much rather the method.
    An attack on a neutral City is wrong, nothing to defend about it.

    I was referring to the fact that Theramore was no longer acting as a Neutral City but a City that openly supports the Alliance in this War.

    The Way Garrosh destroyed this city is a different story, but the attack was not a neutral city, i am stating nothing more than that.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I am not defending Garrosh Actions, but Theramore was anything but a neutral city.

    You can discuss the neutrality of Theramore from Classic - Wotlk, but Theramore was a staging point for the Barrens Campaign of the Alliance and the only source of Reinforcement was a giant highway through Dustwallow that starts exactly at Theramore's gates.
    Theramore made no offensive moves during the war. Most of the Alliance forces in the Barrens were Dwarves from Bael Modan. Reinforcements from Stormwind landed in the port in Theramore on one noted occasion after The horde attacked(prior to the attack from the books that destroyed it) Northwatch.

    The Horde attacked Theramore's lands during their war with Bael Modan because they assumed the Humans would help the Dwarves, Theramore defended it's lands and gave no chase when the Orcs lost and retreated.

  15. #15
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Imprisoning is something I can understand, but we're actually going on missions to kill other mages in Dalaran from what i heard, and that part seemed very unlike Jaina. Perhaps I should get the book then if that expalins it more. Was just looking for the solution ingame and there it isn't that clear really why she deviates from her former attitude. And of course having a Sha influence her made it tie in with the theme of the expansion

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    I'm not sure I would have either, but I'm not convinced that Blizzard has done the best job focusing on her character changes. Especially when it comes to changes that aren't shown entirely in games and require people to immerse themselves in the books as well for all of the lore. I'm sure many players would be confused because it's almost like you look at her for years and she's a neutral and peacemaking pacifist, and then a couple of major events happen and suddenly she comes across as almost downright evil. To some it would look as if she's just had a massive personality transplant and she's not herself anymore.
    This topic has come up before.
    It all boils down to this:

    Person A is interested in the lore. He soaks up as much info as he can, including the stuff from the books. If he cant get his hands on the books, he gets the info from the forums or wowpedia.
    Person B is not interested in the lore. He clicks through the quest text, plays without sounds, and has technomusic playing in the background, usually 'let the bodies hit the floor'.
    Person C is sort of interested in the lore, but only that which happens in the game. He doesn't consider other sources of information as relevant for some reason.

    Person A is me.
    Person C needs to get edumacated. Read a book.
    Person B can eat a plate full of gravy and be the happiest champ he can be.
    Last edited by Chonar; 2012-12-11 at 02:52 PM.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  17. #17
    Jaina is going the same way Arthas went. Deeper and deeper descends into madness, going on a killing spree justifying "it's all for greater good". She pretty much lost her mind after Theramore, now she just goes more and more crazy. Will she regains her mind or turns into a villain like Arthas did? Dunno, we'll see..
    I wouldn't be terribly sad if she turned into evil one at some point tbh.

    Also I don't think it's a sha manifestation.. They show up in Pandaria, Jaina went crazy before even stepping a foot there. She's just pissed to an extreme. And being one of the stronges mages in the world - we''ll it only adds to her rage..
    Last edited by DemoBytom; 2012-12-11 at 02:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  18. #18
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    "Slaughter"? She imprisons the vast majority, the quest text even implied that those that didn't go willingly were the ones who first raised arms.
    Yes. :P It was a poetic exaggeration on my part.

    I haven't had a chance to do the questline on my Alliance characters yet, but I did have a good look through the Purge of Dalaran thread screenshots posted by Zaelsino yesterday. The quest text seems to imply that the Sunreavers were never given the "choice" to leave willingly. They were told basically to surrender or die. "NONE are to escape". Imprisonment or death.

    The Sunreavers have considered Dalaran their home, can you really blame those that raise arms for wanting to defend their right to be there or for not wanting to be thrown in jail for something that each of those elves personally might have had no say in?

    Perhaps I missed part of the storyline somewhere where she gives them the option to leave the city, please point me to it if I have. Otherwise, I cannot believe her to be going about this in a "level headed" fashion.

    I think she has valid emotional reasons for doing what she's doing, but I still think she's snapped and lost it. What she did here completely undermined whatever it was Varian was trying to attempt.

  19. #19
    Keep in mind, she lost both an apprentice and a mentor (Rhonin) in the Battle of Theramore. That sort of thing can really mess someone up, beyond just the fact that the Horde pretty much nuked the city.

    I do feel she should have been expecting an attack of some kind, as the expansion of Alliance from Theremore into the Barrens and the razing of Camp Taurajo pretty much demanded an eventual response. I'm sure it's not the one she was expecting, but still, to assume that Garrosh (a known hot head) was going to let that just go was a bit foolish.

    And I do agree Thrall is culpable here. I can understand his reasons to pass leadership to Garrosh over Cairne at the time, but I really don't see how he can just sit back now and continue to watch Garrosh continue on this path knowing it's only making the situation worse.
    Last edited by mightykong; 2012-12-11 at 02:58 PM.

  20. #20
    Over 9000! Wildtree's Avatar
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    Why we making new threads about the same topic? lol

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