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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    You can hit ctrl with the palm of your hand with some practice.
    I have also a smaller-than-usual Ctrl key on my laptop, so its probably that too.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Do you count click healing? That's not generally considered "clicking", but that has many positives:
    • Saves the targeting click
    • Frees up binds for other abilities
    • Raid frames are usually placed in such a way as to maintain raid awareness
    • Accurate and fast healing on any target in the raid

    Click healers still have to deal with keyboard turning or just not doing anything while moving, but it's the only way to raid heal effectively. It's not real "clicking" though because you still have to use mouseover binds. Some people don't even click heal with l/r mouse buttons and only use mouseover binds.
    I don't agree that click-healing is the only way to heal effectively. I don't use mouse-over or click binds (with the exception of my priest) while healing, and I did just fine in heroic progression. Not to say that I am/was in a top guild, but it certainly was more then effective enough to work. I ended up making mistakes far more often with mouse-overs and click binds because of misclicks than just healing old school.
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  3. #43
    There is no pros and excuses of being a clicker. It's just bad. End of story.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcstunner View Post
    i'm not a raider. never have been, never will be, never want to be. i do the odd dungeon every now and then with my friends, but that's really as far as my grouping goes. i like to quest and do other things, lore and stuff.
    Well, I just brought up vizier because it's one of the more dramatic examples of how big the difference between a clicker and a non-cliker is in situations where the clicking is a handicap. It's still a huge handicap the rest of the time too, it's just you don't notice it because - well - I assume you don't care about your preformance? Yeah, in that case it doesn't matter... but then very little does at that point.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    Clicking is faster. Assuming you set up your ui so your core abilities are arranged near each other.
    This is patently, unequivocally and demonstratably false. There is absolutely no way that you can move your mouse even two inches across your screen and click faster than I can press down on a button my finger is already on.

    And this says nothing of the fact that your eyes are on your curson instead of the fight and that you have to freaking keyboard turn or stop using your abilities if you want to move.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Seosaimhin View Post
    I don't agree that click-healing is the only way to heal effectively. I don't use mouse-over or click binds (with the exception of my priest) while healing, and I did just fine in heroic progression. Not to say that I am/was in a top guild, but it certainly was more then effective enough to work. I ended up making mistakes far more often with mouse-overs and click binds because of misclicks than just healing old school.
    How did you heal? Just target via raid frame and hit a bind? That's still not too bad; just an extra step. The worst would be clicking to target then clicking a heal on your actionbar (which would be a true clicking healer).

    There's still an extra step in there over mouseover binds. I suppose "only" isn't accurate, but "best" (in a purely objective sense) certainly is.

  7. #47
    Mechagnome Suff's Avatar
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    its extremely hard to click and move at the same time

  8. #48
    Been hotkeying and binding my spells since vanilla. I have a habbit where I click my middle spells sometimes. I dunno why, I just do. I don't know how people could click everything on their bar in PvE or PvP. Like someone said in PvE you're focusing more on your clicks and PvP you're gonna be key board turning.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by jmmathe1988 View Post
    I am a clicker as well, I would say because we drag our mouse to click all the abilities...doing so takes time to get from 1 ability to the other, where as keybinding is damn near instant.
    This also means you're not using your mouse to turn which is a ton faster than keyboard.

    Now the effectiveness of each vary according to how used to it you are. Exceptional keyboard turners/clickers can outplay above average keybinders/mouse turners most times. But an exceptional mouse turner/keybinder probably has an advantage over an exceptional keyboard turner/clicker.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 10:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    This is patently, unequivocally and demonstratably false. There is absolutely no way that you can move your mouse even two inches across your screen and click faster than I can press down on a button my finger is already on.

    And this says nothing of the fact that your eyes are on your curson instead of the fight and that you have to freaking keyboard turn or stop using your abilities if you want to move.
    Terrible comparison. You should be equating the amount of time it takes to move your mouse from one ability to another to the amount of time it takes you from pressing one keybind to another. I can tell you right now that an amazing clicker probably does it faster than a good keybinding player.

    Anyways, 9 times out of 10 your eyes aren't going to be on the encounter no matter what as you're watching various cues on your UI for when abilities come off CD or on DBM announcements.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2012-12-03 at 10:39 PM.
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  10. #50
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    I for one can't click buttons faster than the GCD, and I don't have a good memory for where they are, which also lowers my reaction time.

    But I can press buttons as fast as the GCD, faster for abilities that are off the GCD. And I have a good memory for keybinds. Its funny because I'd have trouble listing my keybinds, but no problem pressing them in combat when I need them. Muscle memory.

    Things like mounts and buffs and whatnot that I don't need in combat don't get bound. But combat abilities always get bound.

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  11. #51
    Clicking takes longer, is inaccurate because your hand will shake when you are trying to click something fast and it takes time to put the mouse above the correct icon.

    Furthermore clicking really hampers your movement(mouse is used to turn screens. Can't do that while clicking)

  12. #52
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with clicking if:

    1. You are pulling your weight on DPS
    2. You are not dying to stupid stuff
    3. You are doing your job contributing to the group

    If your play style is working for what you want to accomplish, there's no reason to change if you don't want to. You should give keybinding a try if you're interested in it and get a feel for it and decide how you prefer playing, I says.

    A friend of mine and I both prefer clicking after years of keyboard playing on EQ and FF XI. Clicking just felt more active playing WoW for a while. My friend, however, is able to click by moving the mouse over the appropriate key without looking. He just has the muscle memory to move the mouse the right distance for each press in his rotation. As a tank, he was often just sitting there looking a boss in the face anyway. Though, that was when we had rotations. Some classes are a little more whack a mole with procs now

    I frequently find myself clicking and hovering over the next ability I need to hit just briefly for the cooldown to finish. I could hit a keybind faster, but....if GCD isn't up yet what's the point? But I use kind of a combination. If I need quick turns or quick movements (which I don't find is almost EVER necessary raiding. Most times I need that quick of a turn, it's for a 180 and run situation which means rotate to strafe and resume clicks or full 180 and run in which case you can't shoot what you aren't facing.

    I do, however, feel that keybinds are near essential to be a top notch "standing on the pile of enemies" PvP player. Just seems like the twitch reaction would be more necessary there.

    But I don't PvP and I pull my weight in the raid I'm in, which isn't top notch cutting edge, but it's a group I really enjoy playing with and thus my playstyle works for me....and has shocked some of them because they had no clue I was clickin' the ol' buttons.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2012-12-03 at 10:48 PM.
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  13. #53
    Clicking pros:
    Unlike keybinds (which are on/off) you have left/right/middle/double/single clicks allowing for more options in a single "button".
    Clicking can be used anywhere and not just action bars, you might even be able to click something and perform an action that you would not be able to otherwise (via keys)

    Clicking cons:
    You cannot use your mouse to "look/move" while clicking
    Clicking is slower as you must move your mouse to the button/action area
    Clicking can be less accurate as your action speed increases, moving your mouse and clicking before you should might end up performing a different action or turn out to be a "drag" instead of a click... (so many times I accidentally moved spells instead of clicking).

  14. #54
    The pro SC players don't get to 300 APM by not using keybinds.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2012-12-03 at 10:56 PM.
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  15. #55
    Brewmaster juzalol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I frequently find myself clicking and hovering over the next ability I need to hit just briefly for the cooldown to finish. I could hit a keybind faster, but....if GCD isn't up yet what's the point?
    You could use your mouse to look around you to have a good grasp of where people are standing. This is extremely helpful
    especially for healers in fights where people will move around a lot and are not always in your range.

    The main benefit from keybinds is that it frees the mouse purely for camera usage and movement.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with clicking if:

    1. You are pulling your weight on DPS
    2. You are not dying to stupid stuff
    3. You are doing your job contributing to the group

    If your play style is working for what you want to accomplish, there's no reason to change if you don't want to. You should give keybinding a try if you're interested in it and get a feel for it and decide how you prefer playing, I says.

    A friend of mine and I both prefer clicking after years of keyboard playing on EQ and FF XI. Clicking just felt more active playing WoW for a while. My friend, however, is able to click by moving the mouse over the appropriate key without looking. He just has the muscle memory to move the mouse the right distance for each press in his rotation. As a tank, he was often just sitting there looking a boss in the face anyway. Though, that was when we had rotations. Some classes are a little more whack a mole with procs now

    I frequently find myself clicking and hovering over the next ability I need to hit just briefly for the cooldown to finish. I could hit a keybind faster, but....if GCD isn't up yet what's the point? But I use kind of a combination. If I need quick turns or quick movements (which I don't find is almost EVER necessary raiding. Most times I need that quick of a turn, it's for a 180 and run situation which means rotate to strafe and resume clicks or full 180 and run in which case you can't shoot what you aren't facing.

    I do, however, feel that keybinds are near essential to be a top notch "standing on the pile of enemies" PvP player. Just seems like the twitch reaction would be more necessary there.

    But I don't PvP and I pull my weight in the raid I'm in, which isn't top notch cutting edge, but it's a group I really enjoy playing with and thus my playstyle works for me....and has shocked some of them because they had no clue I was clickin' the ol' buttons.
    "I don't have to be very good, so I click because it makes actions that are trivial with binds more 'active' i.e., more work."

    Are people really defending clicking?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Terrible comparison. You should be equating the amount of time it takes to move your mouse from one ability to another to the amount of time it takes you from pressing one keybind to another. I can tell you right now that an amazing clicker probably does it faster than a good keybinding player.
    You have to be an "amazing" clicker to even hold up to just a "good" keybinder? How is that an endorsement for clicking?

    Nine times out of ten, my fingers are already on the button I need to push. My "home row" are the keys 7 (pinky), 8 (ring), 9 (middle) and 0 (index). I'm a bit weird as I move everything that people normally use the left side of the keyboard for to the right (since I like hitting shift with my thumb). Those four buttons are going to represent the four abilities that make up 75-80% of the actions I take. From there, I radiate outward by degrees of use. My next most used skill might be on key - or 6 while a long CD might be on key 4.

    All that means that the majority of the time, my finger is already over the button I need to press. You cannot convincingly argue that your mouse is anything more than occasionally on the button you need to press. And, anytime you need to move, your mouse will be nowhere near the skill you're supposed to be using. Oh, and by the way, I did notice that you failed to address the complete inability a clicker has of activating abilities while they move.

    Anyways, 9 times out of 10 your eyes aren't going to be on the encounter no matter what as you're watching various cues on your UI for when abilities come off CD or on DBM announcements.
    When I define "the encounter" I mean the whole encounter - including Boss Mod queues. How, for example, can you watch your 10y range finder, your boss warning and see who you need to dispell on Grid if your eyes are following your mouse pointer from ability to ability?
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2012-12-03 at 11:17 PM.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    So, you're able to drop Shadow Fury instantly? Do your full rotation while moving accurately (e.g., Attenuation)? Effectively multidot? These are just PvE considerations. A clicker won't last a second in PvP. You're fighting other players that are performing leaps and bounds better than you. That says a lot about how effective clicking is in any environment.
    funny that because I do consistently high dps in the groups/raids I join and I must be playing with `keybinders` at some point so if its so much better how come theyre not thrashing me on the dps meters? proof is in the results.

  19. #59
    con to clicking = carpel tunnel

  20. #60
    Brewmaster orangelemonrain's Avatar
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    After keybinding everything, and I mean everything there is no chance I'd want to go back. Its so much more fluid now, and I can pay attention at where im looking 99% of the time.

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