Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Twisting Nether
    Posts
    674
    Oh yeah and as Nem mentioned a few posts ago, Demo is now essentially worthless with the nerf to Meta Auras. Yay =(

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 06:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MordorFires View Post
    Well, it'll be ok. Not game-breaking I don't think, we should still be ok. I think the problem with the aura nerf was that it should've been one or the other of the hotfixes, not both. Or if the cost was 100. 150 still feels like a lot.

    Wonder how much it'll hurt PvE AoE.
    Luckily PvE AoE won't take a hit with this nerf since we didn't use Chaos Wave to begin with. HoG and Chaos Wave had almost the same DPCT but HoG pulled ahead when you considered the insane Fury generation we got from the Shadowflame DoT on multiple targets. Demo AoE will be fine in PvE, I'm just worried that they are going about these nerfs in a very erratic manner. Making the Aura dispellable was a necessary nerf and a good one, but the subsequent trippling of the fury cost just made the spell worthless. It won't be used anymore, even in PvE. This nerf did the same thing to Chaos Wave. There were times when with all CD's popped Chaos Wave would be cast over HoG, but now it won't be used at all anymore. Ever. It's a worthless spell with an insane fury cost for very little gain. They need to cut the fury cost in half for it to be useful now, which they actually should. I was sick of spamming Void Ray while in Meta for AoE since there is nothing else to do.

  2. #22
    Demo might still be Ok with a GoSac spec, but that's a lot of trade-off just to have CWs hit closeish to what they used to. Destro may be the answer as embertap kinda offsets the aura in terms of self survivability, but it's still really hard to get a CB off vs a team with a clue.

    Meh, feels like there are just no real reasons to bring a lock instead of a spriest or mage as far as casters go. At least we're better than Ele!...

    Edit - on a related note, when will bliz notice how utterly abysmal all 3 lock specs damage is outside of DS/On-use? One shots are dumb, CW needed changing. But you wonder if bliz ever actually did some 3s testing of healing through a lock with no DS. It's laughable.
    Last edited by pokeadott; 2012-12-03 at 11:17 PM.

  3. #23
    The Patient Paarthurnax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    324
    Just as warlocks started to crawl out of the PVP affliction hole blizzard goes all Leonidas on us and kicks us back in.

    Main:Paarthurnax | Alt:Peijing | <Huge in Japan> 14/14H US#16
    “Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.”
    --Littlefinger

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Finlanders
    Posts
    4,826
    Now buff affliction ok.
    Heyoo!

  5. #25
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Twisting Nether
    Posts
    674
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Demo might still be Ok with a GoSac spec, but that's a lot of trade-off just to have CWs hit closeish to what they used to. Destro may be the answer as embertap kinda offsets the aura in terms of self survivability, but it's still really hard to get a CB off vs a team with a clue.

    Meh, feels like there are just no real reasons to bring a lock instead of a spriest or mage as far as casters go. At least we're better than Ele!...
    I've been a huge optimist this expansion in terms of our PvP viability, but I have to agree that this is getting to be rather worrying for me. At least SPriests won't be as OP anymore since they received the off heal and Psyfiend nerf. Looks like the only undisputed amazing casters left are Mages, since Boomkins, Locks, SPriests and Elementals are now in the same category of suckyness.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Rathgar View Post
    Just as warlocks started to crawl out of the PVP affliction hole blizzard goes all Leonidas on us and kicks us back in.
    LOL thats one (good) way to put it.


    though its bit off, since aff isnt at it's best.

    WTB UA DISPELL punishment 200% dmg buffed with better scaling + glyph that shifts MG dmg into dots with a slight dmg reduce for the sake of pver's.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by scmpoe View Post
    Frost bomb next please . But seriously, fix frost bomb.
    not instant
    dispelable
    you get locked, you cant block
    needs a deep/nova to do decent dmg

    and you compare it to chaos waves? - instant, twice the damage, combined with curse of doom + spambolt in meta form since you always have excess demo fury when you pop 1shot, also AOE hitting everyone for the same amount.

    yea, totally comparable...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    not instant
    dispelable
    you get locked, you cant block
    needs a deep/nova to do decent dmg

    and you compare it to chaos waves? - instant, twice the damage, combined with curse of doom + spambolt in meta form since you always have excess demo fury when you pop 1shot, also AOE hitting everyone for the same amount.

    yea, totally comparable...
    12 sec CD - any significant lock damage only came once every 2 minutes
    Can explode instantly
    Even if it's dispelled you have full polys/novas to control the opponent now with no dispel.

  9. #29
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Twisting Nether
    Posts
    674
    Quote Originally Posted by Nest View Post
    Now buff affliction ok.
    Affliction is fine and any buff to it would make it beyond OP in PvE. I've said this is other threads, but the reason Affliction is sucking atm isn't because the spec is broken. It's sucking right now because of the same reason Boomkins and Fire Mages are garbage right now, that being multi target pressure and 10 second burst isn't viable because of the nature of CC, healing, and defensive CD's in game right now. Healing and CC would be the biggest offenders.

    Healing is over the top and getting the entire team to 30% health isn't even close to a kill anymore. One Healing Stream totem with a Riptide and 2 GHW's and the ENTIRE team is topped off. Healers don't stay OOM since spirit has been buffed as a stat. In a raid environment the change to Intellect and Spirit works out because healers are almost always casting, so the smaller mana pools need to regen faster. In Arenas though, getting a break of a few seconds isn't that rare with the way CC works right now. Mana regen is through the roof and keeping a healer OOM is nearly impossible.

    CC is the other problem. Affliction has burst now, but it takes more than the 3-4 second burst windows that are needed to kill something now. In that time frame, you are almost 100% guaranteed to be peeled.

    Again, Affliction is fine and the only way to "fix" it would be to take all our damage away from DoTs and put it towards Haunt and MG. If they nerf healing output we'll actually be able to rot teams again which would put Affliction in a great position.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    not instant
    dispelable
    you get locked, you cant block
    needs a deep/nova to do decent dmg

    and you compare it to chaos waves? - instant, twice the damage, combined with curse of doom + spambolt in meta form since you always have excess demo fury when you pop 1shot, also AOE hitting everyone for the same amount.

    yea, totally comparable...
    Except Frost Bomb is practically a guaranteed crit where Chaos Wave has roughly a 12-15% (?) chance to crit. Double the damage? erm.. no. Also Chaos Wave can be line of sighted (LoS the lock after he casts it but before it actually hits you and you take no damage, gg). Chaos Wave burst is easily predictable.. the lock goes big and red and sprouts huge wings? Pop a defensive.. or CC him (silence works wonders.. unless they don't suck and have their anti-silence cd up.. then just stun, fear, cyclone or sheep.. or grounding totem.. or again line of sight..).

    You can actually make Frost Bomb instant with PoM.. yeah it's not optimal but if you're complaining about possibly being locked out of frost then there you go.. or you could just PoM > RoF and INSTANTLY freeze anyone in the ring...

    Could actually go on all day but i'm getting depressed thinking about everything mages have.. gl hf and re-roll if you struggle as a frost mage.

  11. #31
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Twisting Nether
    Posts
    674
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    not instant
    dispelable
    you get locked, you cant block
    needs a deep/nova to do decent dmg

    and you compare it to chaos waves? - instant, twice the damage, combined with curse of doom + spambolt in meta form since you always have excess demo fury when you pop 1shot, also AOE hitting everyone for the same amount.

    yea, totally comparable...
    Frost Bomb has a 10 second CD, very short cast time, ALSO hits everyone around the target for AoE damage though not quite as much, and when coupled with Frost Orb and a few FoF procs and Brainfreeze procs will often result in a certain death. At least Demo only had its burst every 2 minutes and then it had to prepare it by not casting HoG for 24 seconds before and building Fury, which btw generates very slowly in arenas. You also can't count Doom since you have 15 seconds to dispel the damn thing and timing it with actual burst is nearly impossible.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Affliction is fine and any buff to it would make it beyond OP in PvE. I've said this is other threads, but the reason Affliction is sucking atm isn't because the spec is broken. It's sucking right now because of the same reason Boomkins and Fire Mages are garbage right now, that being multi target pressure and 10 second burst isn't viable because of the nature of CC, healing, and defensive CD's in game right now. Healing and CC would be the biggest offenders.

    Healing is over the top and getting the entire team to 30% health isn't even close to a kill anymore. One Healing Stream totem with a Riptide and 2 GHW's and the ENTIRE team is topped off. Healers don't stay OOM since spirit has been buffed as a stat. In a raid environment the change to Intellect and Spirit works out because healers are almost always casting, so the smaller mana pools need to regen faster. In Arenas though, getting a break of a few seconds isn't that rare with the way CC works right now. Mana regen is through the roof and keeping a healer OOM is nearly impossible.

    CC is the other problem. Affliction has burst now, but it takes more than the 3-4 second burst windows that are needed to kill something now. In that time frame, you are almost 100% guaranteed to be peeled.

    Again, Affliction is fine and the only way to "fix" it would be to take all our damage away from DoTs and put it towards Haunt and MG. If they nerf healing output we'll actually be able to rot teams again which would put Affliction in a great position.
    Affliction never was on doing burst dmg and take out 1 member from the enemy team in a swipe, but it was to wear down the enemy team killing it slowly...
    that concludes me to the idea that maybe brining Drain mana to afflic (or even to demo/destro) would be a nice touch.

  13. #33
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    6,929
    Quote Originally Posted by scmpoe View Post
    Frost bomb next please . But seriously, fix frost bomb.
    If they actually nerf the damage, that officially ruins Mage.

    Not just in PvP. Fire's already obliterated for good, Arcane has always been garbage (LET'S DESIGN A SPECC THAT REQUIRES YOU TO STAND STILL IN A MOBILE RAIDING TIER! ), leaving only Frost atm. This is why you won't see an actual damage nerf to Frost Bomb, though they need to tweak Frost PvP in some way.


    (Btw, this is all coming from a PvE only Mage who is pissed that he's forced to play Frost because Fire got over-nerfed. Don't give two shits about PvP, but I nod at the concerns that people have with Frost Bomb)

    Also so this is semi on-topic: Ouch, poor Warlocks. I'd say you share my pain but... well, you didn't lose a specc. (*Cough* at least I HOPE you didn't. Idfk much about Warlocks past 85 other than the Affliction rotation)

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

  14. #34
    Funny to see mages defending frost bomb. As it is currently you can get up to 160k fbomb crits in pvp, that sure is fine, especially when you know youll get 50-70k ice lance and 60-80k ffbolt after that. Incanters ward has to go from the game, shatter should be lowered to max 30%, even if that much. As it is now mage basically knows hes gonna crit every time he deeps someone, so retarded.

    They just left warlocks with no spec for arenas. Instead of removing chaos wave from gosac talent and not touching aura more then making it 20 yards range, they decided to completely kill the spec. So typicall.

    Mage, the allmighty class that just has to be amongst top classes every single season. No, lets not fix them for once.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    3,221
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Affliction is fine and any buff to it would make it beyond OP in PvE. I've said this is other threads, but the reason Affliction is sucking atm isn't because the spec is broken. It's sucking right now because of the same reason Boomkins and Fire Mages are garbage right now, that being multi target pressure and 10 second burst isn't viable because of the nature of CC, healing, and defensive CD's in game right now. Healing and CC would be the biggest offenders.

    Healing is over the top and getting the entire team to 30% health isn't even close to a kill anymore. One Healing Stream totem with a Riptide and 2 GHW's and the ENTIRE team is topped off. Healers don't stay OOM since spirit has been buffed as a stat. In a raid environment the change to Intellect and Spirit works out because healers are almost always casting, so the smaller mana pools need to regen faster. In Arenas though, getting a break of a few seconds isn't that rare with the way CC works right now. Mana regen is through the roof and keeping a healer OOM is nearly impossible.

    CC is the other problem. Affliction has burst now, but it takes more than the 3-4 second burst windows that are needed to kill something now. In that time frame, you are almost 100% guaranteed to be peeled.

    Again, Affliction is fine and the only way to "fix" it would be to take all our damage away from DoTs and put it towards Haunt and MG. If they nerf healing output we'll actually be able to rot teams again which would put Affliction in a great position.
    What you wrote is true, but I'd like to point out that dots had a much better scaling in previous expansions than what we see today.

  16. #36
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Right here, right now
    Posts
    2,188
    heh mages defending frostbomb yet doing same burst demo does but in every deep freeze while cc'ing rest of the team ^^also it takes ages to generate enough fury to gib someone while mage can just pop all cd's from invisibility (twice with that silly time travel thingy^^) blow up anyone without trinket ^^ Affliction isnt viable atm cause it depends on channeling mg in the world of random insta cc's flying everywhere.

  17. #37
    pathetic hotfix. warlocks are back to shitty destruction and awful affliction. back to my main i guess...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Was HoG affected as well? If not... what is the point of CW now?
    Well, my CW tooltip says it should be hitting for 56.8k; the spell is hitting for 37.9k - the 33% reduction noted in the OP. HoG/Shadowflame on the other hand are hitting exactly as hard as the tooltip suggests they should: 13.7k HoG impact, and 3.7k per tick of Shadowflame: That is overall, more than Chaos Wave now hits for.

    So, congrats to all the forum whiners; this is a huge and unwarranted PvE burst AE nerf.

  19. #39
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dota 2 24/7 / Dark Souls II
    Posts
    21,557
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    pathetic hotfix. warlocks are back to shitty destruction and awful affliction. back to my main i guess...
    I'm thinking about re-rolling warrior personally :O

  20. #40
    Brewmaster MaxJr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    1,495
    Even though this nerf was needed now warlocks are in an uncomfortable position in pvp, demo is still the best spec but does way less dmg than it did before, as destro its impossible to get a chaos bolt off when you are playing teams over 1800 mmr, and affliction doesnt do any dmg it just doesnt its a really bad dmg spec right now. So yeah rerolling mage?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •