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  1. #121
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    You're mostly fairly accurate. Just want to point out that the Huns were a Asiatic steppes people, not Germanic, and the Maygars are a Finno-Urgic people, not Slavic.
    Your relating the difference in Language, Genetics has shown us a slightly different possibility, in regards to the Origins of these tribes. Granted the Slavics and the Northern Finno-Urgic people are not related, but these two groups have interesting interconnections. If anything the Finno-Urgic are an anomaly of sorts. The closest group to them genetically are in Siberia. As for the Huns being not a German tribe, all the evidence points to them being from the Ukraine, which during the late Roman period when the Huns appeared that was described as Asia. But then again so was the lands we now call Turkey. If you read the anceint accounts it makes it seem like they must have been Mongolians or something, but n closer inspection you find that the Horse tribes of the central Russia who were Germanic peoples, they spoke Gothic which is a Germanic language. History actually supports the idea that the Germanic People started out in the Near east and moved north west. Evidence has linked the Hittite Empire with Germanic peoples.


  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    The most telling part is the DNA testing maps.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_o...ml#ethnicities

    Essentially Most of Europe was Celtic, then the Romans came pushed the Celts into corners, hired Eastern Germans to do the Grunt work, and then left everything to the Germans. The Germans divided themselves up into groups using the derogatory names that the Romans used for them as badges and titles. And reshaped Europe into the current map.

    Originally you where either a Celt or a German or further east a slave... oops Slavic (maygars).
    Yeah... No.

    What you are saying is extremely oversimplified and not quite convincing.

    You are lumping together Germanic tribes, Goths with Thracians.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...garia-science/

    Just like the the author of the Getica who claimed Goths and Getae are the same people.

    Also what is Slavic? There is a Slavic culture, but not really a Slavic ethnicity.
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  3. #123
    Pandaren Monk Tearor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post

    Also what is Slavic? There is a Slavic culture, but not really a Slavic ethnicity.
    He certainly was oversimplifying. Although "Slavic" is considered an ethnic-linguistic group, and before we drift into the definition of "ethnicity", let me say I didn't want to contradict you, but just add that Slavic goes beyond culture.
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  4. #124
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    I understand that Slav is where the term Slave originates. Any historians want to chomp on that?
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  5. #125
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Yeah... No.

    What you are saying is extremely oversimplified and not quite convincing.

    You are lumping together Germanic tribes, Goths with Thracians.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...garia-science/

    Just like the the author of the Getica who claimed Goths and Getae are the same people.

    Also what is Slavic? There is a Slavic culture, but not really a Slavic ethnicity.

    I will link the source http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/cour...pics/W-MAP.GIF

    Basically the data shows, that the Huns. who stayed in central Europe after Attlias death didn't bring a raw source of East Asian genetic material. In fact the only Genetics found in Hungary are Germanic and Slavic.

    As for the Thracians, um that is the Greek name for the Germanic tribes. All the Genetic evidence and even the language they had is a root of both the Germanic and Slavic language groups.
    http://groznijat.tripod.com/thrac/thrac_9.html

    As to Slavics, They are Genetically similar to Germans, however there are expected differences.

    Using modern names for tribes of ancient peoples, back then they had different names, some of which I do not want to use because people do not understand the full history.

    What happened is easy to trace, The Caucasian tribes of 12,000 years ago Who where not the only white people filled up all of the flat grassy lands of Russia, they became horse-men and farmers. The Germanic, Slavic, and Ulric peoples came from these groups. they had enough separation to become distinctly unique. The Ulric peoples became the Finnish and Mongolians, something that has often made me wonder how. The Slavic stayed put for the most part and the Germans kept invading west and south. At about the Same time a group of people from north Africa settled in Spain, they had a related tribe settle along the banks of the Nile river. This group ended up spreading though out what we now call Europe. Today we call them Celts, it is highly likely that the Celts mixed with the local populations of Humans that had moved in just prior to the end of the Ice age, We will call them Druids although this is not actually true, but people like to think of the Druids being the people who made stone-henge. The Celtic/Druidic peoples ended up with a vast Cultural Empire which operated much like today's EU. To the East they had the Germanic and Slavic peoples, and to the South they had the Greeks. Just after the Fall of Troy an Asian Greek City State Rome was founded, many believe it was actually a Trojan colony. Eventually this colony incorporated all the local Celtic Tribes, to create the First stage of the Roman Empire...aka Italy. The rest is easy to look up. There are pockets of surviving Celts in France, Spain, Portugal, Scotland, Whales, and all of Ireland. The rest where killed off or mixed in with the Roman and German populations which took over. Romania is a Classic example, all the Native Celtic peoples where killed off by Romans, it really is the first recorded total genocide of a peoples. The void was filled by Romans and the slave races and hired thugs. (Slavic's where popular slaves, and the Germans where popular thugs with the Romans.)

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I understand that Slav is where the term Slave originates. Any historians want to chomp on that?
    I know that in the Al-Andalus, a good fraction of the slaves were slavs. This was notorious because many slavic freedmen attained political notability in the Spanish-muslim world.

  7. #127
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I understand that Slav is where the term Slave originates. Any historians want to chomp on that?
    I keep on pointing that out. They were the popular slave race of the Romans, and then the Muslims.

    And to the people who can't tell a Slavic when they see one.
    http://www.russianslavic.as.nyu.edu/...ilburd2011.jpg

    As opposed to a typical Germanic.
    http://www.moviecricket.com/images/a...tger-hauer.jpg

    Oh and a Celt.
    http://images.fanpop.com/images/imag...9_1024_768.jpg

    Since these three groups have intermixed there is some overlap, also since the Germanic peoples often invaded India, you get a odd group of German people in the Subcontinent.
    http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/media/images/guru3_lrg.jpg

    Basically the ancestors of the Germans invaded land by horseback, and spread their language group and genetics all over the place.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Since these three groups have intermixed there is some overlap, also since the Germanic peoples often invaded India, you get a odd group of German people in the Subcontinent.
    http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/media/images/guru3_lrg.jpg

    Basically the ancestors of the Germans invaded land by horseback, and spread their language group and genetics all over the place.
    I once knew a Saudi girl who lived in Pakistan (I still keep in touch with her, actually). She taught me how to say "hello, how are you?" in Urdu, and said that when I said the words, she could swear I was from Northern Pakistan, where people are tall with light skin.
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  9. #129
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I once knew a Saudi girl who lived in Pakistan (I still keep in touch with her, actually). She taught me how to say "hello, how are you?" in Urdu, and said that when I said the words, she could swear I was from Northern Pakistan, where people are tall with light skin.
    Well north of Pakistan are wide open plains of Russia, home to nomadic horsemen. And the ancestors of the Germans.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post

    Basically the ancestors of the Germans invaded land by horseback, and spread their language group and genetics all over the place.
    I am sorry, but i am not convinced. Germans are known for a lot of things, but strong cavalery or Horseman worship are not two of them. Goths are not Thracians the differences are too great to overlook. Germanic people come from the North of europe rather then the middle east.
    Last edited by Cybran; 2012-12-07 at 07:39 PM.
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  11. #131
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    I am sorry, but i am not convinced. Germans are known for a lot of things, but strong cavalery or Horseman worship is not two of them. Goths are not Thracians the differences are too great to overlook. Germanic people come from the North of europe rather then the middle east.
    Umm, Germans invented Knights on Horseback, they have a long history of exceptional cavalry units. The best horsemen in Europe are in Austria. I think you are mixing your images, the guys who ran on foot into battle where not the Germans, they did use infantry but the best of German Warriors have always been on the Back of a horse.

    Also I am talking the History of the last 12,000 years. you are talking the history of the last 1700. Everything I have said is documented scientifically and I have linked much of what I have said.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Umm, Germans invented Knights on Horseback, they have a long history of exceptional cavalry units. The best horsemen in Europe are in Austria.
    I dunno. I'd think the Winged Hussars of Poland would give them a run for their money.

    http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hussars.html
    Last edited by Reeve; 2012-12-07 at 07:57 PM.
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  13. #133
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I dunno. I'd think the Winged Hussars of Poland would give them a run for their money.

    http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hussars.html
    Umm you realize that the Polish are a Mix of Germanic and Slavic peoples, and that the Hussars came out of Austro-Hungarian traditions? And that Hussars is a Hungarian word for Calvary?

  14. #134
    Ok this became like the most interesting thread on MMO-C ever.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Umm you realize that the Polish are a Mix of Germanic and Slavic peoples, and that the Hussars came out of Austro-Hungarian traditions? And that Hussars is a Hungarian word for Calvary?
    o.O No, I didn't realize that.
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  16. #136
    Warchief Azgraal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Oh interesting! i had always assumed that the Portus Cale city had kept existing. I guess it makes sense, only a few cities from the roman era remained after the decay of the empire and the germanic invasions, and even if new cities took the same place and name, they had to be basically rebuilt and refounded.
    Thanks for clearing up that mistake!
    No problem, we all learn something everyday!
    The majority of roman cities in the portuguese side of the iberan peninsule eventually became important cities of Portugal when it was founded, much because the roman cities were built on strategical points, so it made sense to populate them. So, the name of the modern places derives from the latin names, as in the example on my last post, Bracara Augusta became Braga, Coninbriga became Coimbra, among others. This is typical in the north and centre of the country, to the south the Moor presence is more evident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Ok this became like the most interesting thread on MMO-C ever.
    QTF!
    Last edited by Azgraal; 2012-12-07 at 08:06 PM.
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  17. #137
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Oh an Ironically the remaining Hussar units in the world include Nations like Canada and Chili

  18. #138
    Mechagnome
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    Because it's hard to pronounce some names in relatively unknown languages I suppose.

    Take Mallorca. It's spanish, so the double l is j, but many Norwegians - myself included - say it with l, not j. Which pisses off a lot of other Norwegians. "It's pronounced j, not l! How fucking hard can it be?" To which I'd like to reply with "Alright, give me the name of China in Mandarin. Or the name of Japan, or the name of the Andaman Islands, which btw, good fucking luck with that".

    Furthermore, you might have different languages in a country, and if we were to say China in Mandarin, we should also be able to do so in Cantonese (exact spelling escapes my mind). We have two common names for Norway in Norwegian; Norge and Noreg. Then you have the Sami languages (or dialects, depending on how you regard it) as well as Kven (derived from Finnish). The latter languages aren't that widespread, but they still have a name for Norway which I reckon is different from Norge/Noreg (I don't know Finnish-Ural very well), so you could/should end up with quite possibly four different ways of saying "Norway". On Papua New-Guinea they have well over 200 different languages. Nay, keep it the way it is.

    Mallorca with double ll. If you want to say j, cuz it's spanish, it's København (Copenhagen) and Danmark in Danish, Köpenhamn (Copenhagen), Sverige (Sweden) in Swedish, Ísland in Icelandic, Suomi in Finnish... I can keep going...

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenskap View Post
    Because it's hard to pronounce some names in relatively unknown languages I suppose.

    Take Mallorca. It's spanish, so the double l is j, but many Norwegians - myself included - say it with l, not j. Which pisses off a lot of other Norwegians. "It's pronounced j, not l! How fucking hard can it be?" To which I'd like to reply with "Alright, give me the name of China in Mandarin. Or the name of Japan, or the name of the Andaman Islands, which btw, good fucking luck with that".

    Furthermore, you might have different languages in a country, and if we were to say China in Mandarin, we should also be able to do so in Cantonese (exact spelling escapes my mind). We have two common names for Norway in Norwegian; Norge and Noreg. Then you have the Sami languages (or dialects, depending on how you regard it) as well as Kven (derived from Finnish). The latter languages aren't that widespread, but they still have a name for Norway which I reckon is different from Norge/Noreg (I don't know Finnish-Ural very well), so you could/should end up with quite possibly four different ways of saying "Norway". On Papua New-Guinea they have well over 200 different languages. Nay, keep it the way it is.

    Mallorca with double ll. If you want to say j, cuz it's spanish, it's København (Copenhagen) and Danmark in Danish, Köpenhamn (Copenhagen), Sverige (Sweden) in Swedish, Ísland in Icelandic, Suomi in Finnish... I can keep going...
    actually double l sound in spanish makes a y sound.

  20. #140
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    actually double l sound in spanish makes a y sound.
    Depends on which Spanish. In Colombia, it would be a j sound, not a y sound. I'm accustomed to the j sound, personally, having spent a deal of time in South America and with South Americans, but Mexicans would use the y sound.
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