[Movies] Star Trek: Into darkness

[Vayshan]

Some say Kahn, some say Gary Mitchel, I think it might be Gary, Kahn was never in the federation I believe. I am intrigued by Submarine Enterprise, on itunes/trailers the banner says "come back for the teaser December 17th". Interesting. This trailer, new one on the 17th, and 9 minutes in Imax? Can't say it's not too much.

Why would he have to be in the Federation (I think you meant Starfleet) to be the bad guy in this film? Khan was an Augment, made on Earth as a super soldier (one of MANY). Anyway, atleast the 1701 gets a bath for once :P Having Kirk as her captain must mean she gets pretty dirty.

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 07:02 PM ----------

As for Who Benedict Cumberbatch is playing the two biggest possibilities are Lt Commander Gary Michell or Khan Noonien Singh. JJ Abrams has said he is doing 6 Star Trek Movies in total.

So here is a list of classic formulas. Bolding what he has already done.

Godlike being
Time Travel
Romulans
Klingons
Borg
Cardassians
Vulcans
Alternate versions of Earth
Khan <-Most popular villain in Star Trek Lore.

So the likely remaining 5 stories will have to have.

Godlike Being
Klingons
Borg
Cardassians
Khan

I will have a fit if that guy dares touch the Borg and make a TOS-esque movie with them as the villains! I was already pissed off that they dared put Borg in the Enterprise series (although the episode itself is a favorite one!). But since Abrams doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about Trek lore... Though I'm quite confident he'll make a great movie when it's about the Klingons or the Cardassians because he can create all manner of cold, cruel, brutal and murderous characters. Not to mention plenty of mass destruction and (hopefully) some good large scale fleet combat.

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 07:19 PM ----------

That basically sums up Star Trek. Forever. Star Trek was never deeply entwined in its science. It was just fiction, that happened to be in space.

Seriously, 90% of Star Trek is character interaction, discussion of how to do things and then some fighting/action. It was always at its best when it was at its most dramatic.

You must've watched a different Star Trek than I have. TNG and DS9 had quit a lot of 'techtalk' scenes and often enough went in-depth into their technology. There was plenty of science, but fictional. Voyager toned it down a bit because a lot of people didn't have the brains to comprehend all the science talk. And Enterprise... that was just heavily diluted Trek.

[Gothicshark]

I always thought the DS 9 hatred came from Babylon 5 fans. Being a Babylon 5 fan myself, I was always aware that the Babylon 5 outlying plot, episodes scripts, concepts, etc, etc, had been through the DS 9 team's hands before DS 9 went into production. I think DS 9 aired literally like 2 weeks prior to Babylon 5's first showing, though Babylon 5 had been in the works for longer.

So my viewpoint is that a lot of people saw DS 9 as ripping off Babylon 5, especially given how different it was to a standard Star Trek series, which is where a lot of the hate came from.

It goes deeper than that, J. Michael Straczynski the writer who created Babylon 5 originally wrote the treatment as an idea for Paramount as a spinoff for Star Trek. Paramount reviewed his material and told him they were not interested so he found a studio that was Warner Bros, he removed Star Trek references from his material and Babylon 5 went into production, meanwhile Paramount then hired writers, and staff to produce DS9 which is literally verbatim the story that J. Michael Straczynski submitted.

[Choptimus]

Star Trek is boring, not interested personally.

[Vayshan]

Star Trek is boring, not interested personally.

You did seem to be interested in this thread... Anyway Star Trek goes deep, some people just like their entertainment to be shallow, I guess.

[Deleted]

Really excited for this, I really enjoyed Star Trek 11 (2009 version, not sure what to call it).

When they destroyed Vulcan my jaw almost hit the desk.

Looking forward to see where they take us!

[Gothicshark]

Why would he have to be in the Federation (I think you meant Starfleet) to be the bad guy in this film? Khan was an Augment, made on Earth as a super soldier (one of MANY). Anyway, atleast the 1701 gets a bath for once :P Having Kirk as her captain must mean she gets pretty dirty.

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 07:02 PM ----------


I will have a fit if that guy dares touch the Borg and make a TOS-esque movie with them as the villains! I was already pissed off that they dared put Borg in the Enterprise series (although the episode itself is a favorite one!). But since Abrams doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about Trek lore... Though I'm quite confident he'll make a great movie when it's about the Klingons or the Cardassians because he can create all manner of cold, cruel, brutal and murderous characters. Not to mention plenty of mass destruction and (hopefully) some good large scale fleet combat.

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 07:19 PM ----------

You must've watched a different Star Trek than I have. TNG and DS9 had quit a lot of 'techtalk' scenes and often enough went in-depth into their technology. There was plenty of science, but fictional. Voyager toned it down a bit because a lot of people didn't have the brains to comprehend all the science talk. And Enterprise... that was just heavily diluted Trek.

there are a couple of places in trek lore with the official books where they have already place the Borg in the Alpha quadrant prior to TNG. Also in a couple of places the Borg could actually come up as being responsible. For instance 'the Doomsday machine' has been hinted at as being constructed to fight the Borg. Same goes with the Galactic Barrier.

edit:
Places in which the Borg have been linked in books.
V'Ger either was created using Borg tech or V'Ger made the first Borg
Columbia NX-02 - the Survivors become the first Borg after the ship is crashed back in time and space.
Kirk accidentally losses a girl who is trying to be saved from illness with nanotechnology and implants through a black-hole she ends up the Borg Queen.

-yes all the current books and comics set in the Star Trek Universe place Earth Humans as being responsible for the 1st Borg.

[Markluzz]

Another embarrassing JJ "star wars" trek movie.

How was the first embarrassing? It was a strong movie and highly acclaimed.

[Vayshan]

there are a couple of places in trek lore with the official books where they have already place the Borg in the Alpha quadrant prior to TNG. Also in a couple of places the Borg could actually come up as being responsible. For instance 'the Doomsday machine' has been hinted at as being constructed to fight the Borg. Same goes with the Galactic Barrier.

From Memory Alpha wiki: "Greg Cox's Star Trek: The Next Generation - Q Continuum novels state that the galactic barrier was in fact created by the Q Continuum as a method of preventing the powerful being known only as "0" from returning to the Milky Way Galaxy, from which he was banished for his destruction of the Tkon Empire." The Planet Eater wouldn't make a good weapon to fight Borg, imo though.

[Gothicshark]

From Memory Alpha wiki: "Greg Cox's Star Trek: The Next Generation - Q Continuum novels state that the galactic barrier was in fact created by the Q Continuum as a method of preventing the powerful being known only as "0" from returning to the Milky Way Galaxy, from which he was banished for his destruction of the Tkon Empire." The Planet Eater wouldn't make a good weapon to fight Borg, imo though.

Also from Memory Alpha Wiki:Peter David's - Vendetta

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_..._%28episode%29

Peter David's TNG novel Vendetta connects the planet killers with the Preservers, an ancient race first mentioned in "The Paradise Syndrome", who have fought the Borg as well as created the galactic barrier. This method of attack used against the Borg would be consistent with that seen used by Species 8472 in Star Trek: Voyager. Also, David's description of the new planet killer's look matches Norman Spinrad's original conception.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vendetta
This novel indicates that the planet killer from TOS: "The Doomsday Machine" was designed to combat the Borg; destroying dead planets left in the Borg's wake and then using its anti-proton beam to destroy encountered Borg cubes.

[Clockwork Pinkie]

Why would he have to be in the Federation (I think you meant Starfleet) to be the bad guy in this film? Khan was an Augment, made on Earth as a super soldier (one of MANY). Anyway, atleast the 1701 gets a bath for once :P Having Kirk as her captain must mean she gets pretty dirty.

I'm just going from that because he's wearing a federation shirt in the trailer, a black one. And in a movie like this, Kahn would probably be known everywhere, and disguising yourself as one of the federation probably won't do much.

[DDazzle]

I'm just going from that because he's wearing a federation shirt in the trailer, a black one. And in a movie like this, Kahn would probably be known everywhere, and disguising yourself as one of the federation probably won't do much.

sorry to be the nerd here, but backing what Vayshan was saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ion_of_Planets
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfleet

not the same thing

[shadowlich]

How was the first embarrassing? It was a strong movie and highly acclaimed.

Its not star trek, it doesn't have any humanity or ethics in it, it just blatant action.

[SirRobin]

They're doing Gary Michell. He's from a Star Trek TOS episode. Captivating storytelling. Go watch.

You can watch the Gary Mitchell episode here. It's called "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

Seen it and not getting that vibe from the trailer. "Superhuman" type stunts make me think Khan. Not getting a "godlike" vibe from the trailer.

[Clockwork Pinkie]

Well, Alica Eve's character has been revealed.
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=97940

Today, ComingSoon.net was afforded the rare opportunity of visiting Abrams' Bad Robot Productions and talking with some of the talent behind next summer's much anticipated release. We'll have a lot more from the visit posted soon, but one mystery was officially revealed: Alice Eve's role is that of Carol Marcus.

Marcus, played by Bibi Besch in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, was, in the original timeline, a Federation scientist whose work led to the top-secret "Project Genesis". She had a relationship with James T. Kirk and became mother to his son, David, but the pair ultimately decided that it was best for her to raise the boy alone.

[Mormolyce]

Why would he have to be in the Federation (I think you meant Starfleet) to be the bad guy in this film? Khan was an Augment, made on Earth as a super soldier (one of MANY).

Because the blurb says "from within their own organisation".

[Frontenac]

When the crew of the Enterprise is called back home, they find an unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization has detonated the fleet and everything it stands for, leaving our world in a state of crisis. With a personal score to settle, Captain Kirk leads a manhunt to a war-zone world to capture a one man weapon of mass destruction. As our heroes are propelled into an epic chess game of life and death, love will be challenged, friendships will be torn apart, and sacrifices must be made for the only family Kirk has left: his crew. Written by Paramount Pictures

This was on IMDb.

On Wikipedia, they say that Cumberbatch said his character's name was John Harisson. But, if that's not the case, I think that Gary Mitchell fits more the description above than Khan. A "one man weapon of mass destruction" is exactly what Gary Mitchell was or could have been. Khan was stronger and smarter than most humans, but he needed his group of superhumans. Alone, he is certainly not a one man weapon of mass destruction. They also say that the vilain was from their organisation (Star Fleet). Mitchell was a Star Fleet officer, not Khan.

[Gothicshark]

Well, Alica Eve's character has been revealed.
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=97940

Well that is actually really interesting and absolutely no help, it makes it clear that the villain is one of two characters from lore, but sadly Carol Marcus was introduced to Kirk by Gary Mitchell, who eventually has a son with Kirk, and builds the genesis weapon and faces off against Khan.

So I can safety say It is absolutely either Khan or Mitchell.

Had it been any other side character, literally any other side character and it would have been clear.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 01:10 AM ----------

This was on IMDb.

On Wikipedia, they say that Cumberbatch said his character's name was John Harisson. But, if that's not the case, I think that Gary Mitchell fits more the description above than Khan. A "one man weapon of mass destruction" is exactly what Gary Mitchell was or could have been. Khan was stronger and smarter than most humans, but he needed his group of superhumans. Alone, he is certainly not a one man weapon of mass destruction. They also say that the vilain was from their organisation (Star Fleet). Mitchell was a Star Fleet officer, not Khan.

Umm the Super Human known as Khan single highhandedly conquered China, India, and the Middle East. He was considered the Greatest Military mind of Star Trek History. Kirk only beat him because Khan wasn't use to Space combat, and he was unfamiliar with Star Ships.

[SirRobin]

Well I would be the first to admit that the bad guy in the new movie certainly doesn't look as physically impressive as I would expect a Khan knockoff to be. So maybe it is the "ultimate power" guy.

[Frontenac]

Well that is actually really interesting and absolutely no help, it makes it clear that the villain is one of two characters from lore, but sadly Carol Marcus was introduced to Kirk by Gary Mitchell, who eventually has a son with Kirk, and builds the genesis weapon and faces off against Khan.

So I can safety say It is absolutely either Khan or Mitchell.

Had it been any other side character, literally any other side character and it would have been clear.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 01:10 AM ----------



Umm the Super Human known as Khan single highhandedly conquered China, India, and the Middle East. He was considered the Greatest Military mind of Star Trek History. Kirk only beat him because Khan wasn't use to Space combat, and he was unfamiliar with Star Ships.

Khan did not do it alone. He had an entire army with him. An army of super humans just like him. We see a few of them in "The Wrath of Khan". So he was certainly not "a ONE man weapon of mass destruction". And again, he never was in Star Fleet.

[Gothicshark]

Khan did not do it alone. He had an entire army with him. An army of super humans just like him. We see a few of them in "The Wrath of Khan". So he was certainly not "a ONE man weapon of mass destruction". And again, he never was in Star Fleet.

He had 80 not an Army, and they were his family. If you watch the Japanese trailer he continues his speech and say's it's all about family.


At the same time as it has been pointed out Cumberbatch is not a buff kind of guy, so this is why I am saying it is clear that it has to be one or the other. However it is not entirely conclusive either way. Even the release of Alica Eve's character being Kirk's baby mama Carol Marcus doesn't help since the Charater was mentioned by Gary Mitchell as being introduced to Kirk, and first seen in Wrath of Khan. It is actually insanely brilliant of JJ Abrams to drop the hints the way he has because there are just enough facts to confuse the issue. Which is defiantly apart of typical JJ Abrams marketing strategies. To this day no one is quiet sure what Cloverfield was.

Japanese Trailer with extra long speech: http://youtu.be/BrHlQUXFzfw