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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Narna's Avatar
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    Unseen Strike hits in a cone, what my group does is, around 2 seconds before it hits, start to stack up. Identify who is the target, and everyone stack behind them. There will be a very faded version of the boss, ready to strike, and by that you can see where it's about to hit.

    Tanking/moving the boss was a non-issue for my raid. Just move them after an Unseen Strike, and when there are too many cyclones around the boss.

    To be honest, the only problem my raid group had was surviving the cyclone phase, the first phase was simple. Range DPS spread out, melee always stay behind the boss. When the boss does Windstep, make sure your melee don't go crazy, wait for the boss to come back to his original position. Your healers should not be OOMing in Phase 1. Are they over healing? Are they geared enough?
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  2. #22
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Our healing done: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...m/healingDone/

    Most healers, but the pala have logged out in their DPS gear, but yes. They should be all around 480ish ilvl.

    Answer from Ralador:
    aslong as i have not nailed timing on SOTR it is safer to go for healthpool
    haste % i would get from reforging ... after i did some more calculating... with other trinkets(corean and darkmaster) i have... i could upgrade haste ~6%... and lose 55k healthpool.

    aslong as i keep failing at active migitation... refoging, changing gear or anything else is meaningless anyways
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-12-05 at 12:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  3. #23


    Yes, I know it's from a hunter's PoV, but that's irrelevant.
    I linked my video to show how little effort goes into this fight, tornadoes were stacked on the boss' platform because we could, it wasn't to make it easier because then we would've spread them a bit more across the room.

    Have your Unseen Strikes target turn the boss in any direction you don't have tornadoes in, and keep an eye on the DBM timers.
    Stack out 8 yards at all times except for Unseen.
    If there's not a Wind Step cast incoming, and there's approx. 5 sec until Unseen then stack.
    Unseen Strikes is a frontal cone, the marked target being the middle, but it's so forgiving it's laughable. I can be behind him and still get hit. Unseen should not be your biggest problem.

  4. #24
    My group fight the boss in the middle and have people at max range in a circle at strike we all run under a mark in the center and take the hit and run back easy. however our monk and pala healer fail in phase 2

  5. #25
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    if he can't pop is own cooldowns for assault just give him externals and gg

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  6. #26
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Unseen Strikes is a frontal cone, the marked target being the middle, but it's so forgiving it's laughable. I can be behind him and still get hit.
    Laughable you say? If we stacked on the marked person (which we will change on our next attempts), on some cases, people didn't get hit. And if not all of our raid didn't get hit by the US, some would die. We cannot consider this as something we could ignore. As the hunter of hours used stamina potion, just to get his HP to close to 400kish to survive the last US we take :/
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  7. #27
    Mechagnome
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    One more thing, if he cant get SotR up for UA let him glyph Divine Protection, 20% phys reduction for every 2nd UA.. Which should be enough to survive it just fine. But I would really recommend him to use different gearing strategy and learning to play his class properly - because thats what raiding is about...
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    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
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  8. #28
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Someone posted on the first page that I just should take his second Assault on myself, if I don't have any stacks of my own. Which we will probably try on our next attempt, if the survival will still be an issue.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Laughable you say? If we stacked on the marked person (which we will change on our next attempts), on some cases, people didn't get hit. And if not all of our raid didn't get hit by the US, some would die. We cannot consider this as something we could ignore. As the hunter of hours used stamina potion, just to get his HP to close to 400kish to survive the last US we take :/
    Are everyone stacking? As in everyone in the entire raid.
    I really can't imagine it missing more than one person if everyone stacks. It seems too unlucky to happen more than once..

  10. #30
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Someone posted on the first page that I just should take his second Assault on myself, if I don't have any stacks of my own. Which we will probably try on our next attempt, if the survival will still be an issue.
    Sorry, but I call this BS. Your pala tank will get used he can slack all the time if you babysit him like this. Tell him to do his part of the fight properly or look for a new tank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    "you need to understand that my computer and i have a relationship that was here before i met you, and will be here long after we break up. if i could have sex with the CD-rom drive, you would be irrelevant. just so we're clear on this"

  11. #31
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    On the times when this happens, everyone has stacked on the person who get the US, but still it tends to miss some. Maybe the stack has not been that perfect.

    I just hope that I manage to explain to the raiders that they a) need to face away from the raid when US comes on them b) everyone should be bit behind the person.

    Getting the slight feeling that Elagon seems easier
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-12-05 at 01:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  12. #32
    High Overlord Pippo89's Avatar
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    Quoting: Answer from Ralador:

    aslong as i have not nailed timing on SOTR it is safer to go for healthpool
    haste % i would get from reforging ... after i did some more calculating... with other trinkets(corean and darkmaster) i have... i could upgrade haste ~6%... and lose 55k healthpool.

    aslong as i keep failing at active migitation... refoging, changing gear or anything else is meaningless anyways


    I'm sorry, but how can he fail with SOTR?
    What's so difficult with building up 3HP and using a damaging ability which procs the main mitigation (which also is buffed by mastery)?
    Sorry, but Paladins are having an easy time with mitigation this addon (again :P), so there is not much 'to nail' with SOTR. Use it when available and/or the existing buff of it is about to run out..

    Wait a few secs with full Holy Power before the Overwhelming Assault, hit him with SOTR and it's done.
    Above is nothing against Paladins, I'm tanking with a Pally myself since Firelands (myself being warrior). And I would 'slap' him too if he ever says the same like your tank..

    Concerning the haste, I have to say I've read about this stat because my pally alt is tank with his offspec, but I have not made any theorycrafting about it. My personal conclusion is Hitcap --> 7,5-15% expertise --> Mastery --> Haste --> Dodge/Parry.

    So I can't really tell you if the 6% haste are a gain above 55k HP. BUT I would say: Yes. 6% or 10%, his HP-generating abilities will be available more often. That's a good deal in my opinion.

    And with about 476iLvl I would never gem into full stamina..
    Yes, it's a more personal decision compared to Cata (and I really like it). BUT there are some 'waypoints' to pass before you can gem 'whatever you want'.

    As far as I can say, my pally offtank (me being warrior MT, as said) gemmed and reforged into 'full' haste and expertise hardcap. He's happy with it, our healers noticed no disadvantage compared to his mastery-build and neither did I.
    In fact, I notice his mitigation is smoother because he is generating Holy Power at a steadier rate. Thus, SOTR has a higher uptime.

    Offtopic: Sadly, no matter how much haste he got, Warrior Tank DMG still beats Paladin by far :P

    Concerning Wind Step:
    I do not recommend Clemency but rather the Hand of Purity!
    Purity is available every 30 seconds and reduces the dmg from the dot by 70%. You can cover every single Wind Step with 2 Paladins, and every 2nd to 3rd with one Pally.
    Protection removes the debuff, which is not bad.. But look at the cooldown of it. Clemency only delays it, but does not reduce it.

    Concerning your healers & phase 2:
    Well, running oom before Phase 2 even starts, while three-healing it, is not so good.

    When getting to phase 2, don't let the whole raid run if you got some movement experts (sarcasm!). Group the 'experts' and the offtank together and let them stay at the first wall you're pushed against. Give them one to two healers and let the non-failers and your best healer run.

    Our phase 2 composition looks as following:
    Runners: Me (MT), Melees (all of them = 1-2 in 10 man), 1 of 2 Hunters (the one with better movement, latency/fps whatever), mage and only 1 of 3 healers: the shaman, who is also the best of 'em.
    Wall-Huggers: Offtank, Affliction Warlock, 2nd Hunter, Holy Priest (problems with tornadoes...), Holy Pally (see priest).

    Worked out very well for us.

    I hope this wall of text did help you.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Someone posted on the first page that I just should take his second Assault on myself, if I don't have any stacks of my own. Which we will probably try on our next attempt, if the survival will still be an issue.
    You shouldn't. He seems as quite an awful tank, if he can't at least utilize his active mitigation to deal with stuff like that, as other people have said, you're better off trying to find a new tank, because if he cannot use his SotR properly (doesn't take half a brain) he's basically useless and stam stacking wont save him ...
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  14. #34
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exileos View Post
    Are everyone stacking? As in everyone in the entire raid.
    I really can't imagine it missing more than one person if everyone stacks. It seems too unlucky to happen more than once..
    No, in fairness my raid has experienced this, too. We'll all be stacked directly on top of the victim on my screen, but only half the raid will take damage. The move is sometimes buggy (huehuehue).
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pippo89 View Post
    Quoting: Answer from Ralador:

    aslong as i have not nailed timing on SOTR it is safer to go for healthpool
    haste % i would get from reforging ... after i did some more calculating... with other trinkets(corean and darkmaster) i have... i could upgrade haste ~6%... and lose 55k healthpool.

    aslong as i keep failing at active migitation... refoging, changing gear or anything else is meaningless anyways


    I'm sorry, but how can he fail with SOTR?
    What's so difficult with building up 3HP and using a damaging ability which procs the main mitigation (which also is buffed by mastery)?
    Sorry, but Paladins are having an easy time with mitigation this addon (again :P), so there is not much 'to nail' with SOTR. Use it when available and/or the existing buff of it is about to run out..

    Wait a few secs with full Holy Power before the Overwhelming Assault, hit him with SOTR and it's done.
    Above is nothing against Paladins, I'm tanking with a Pally myself since Firelands (myself being warrior). And I would 'slap' him too if he ever says the same like your tank..

    Concerning the haste, I have to say I've read about this stat because my pally alt is tank with his offspec, but I have not made any theorycrafting about it. My personal conclusion is Hitcap --> 7,5-15% expertise --> Mastery --> Haste --> Dodge/Parry.

    So I can't really tell you if the 6% haste are a gain above 55k HP. BUT I would say: Yes. 6% or 10%, his HP-generating abilities will be available more often. That's a good deal in my opinion.

    And with about 476iLvl I would never gem into full stamina..
    Yes, it's a more personal decision compared to Cata (and I really like it). BUT there are some 'waypoints' to pass before you can gem 'whatever you want'.

    As far as I can say, my pally offtank (me being warrior MT, as said) gemmed and reforged into 'full' haste and expertise hardcap. He's happy with it, our healers noticed no disadvantage compared to his mastery-build and neither did I.
    In fact, I notice his mitigation is smoother because he is generating Holy Power at a steadier rate. Thus, SOTR has a higher uptime.
    Short version:
    I am hit/exp capped as priority (more or less). - but i leave some room for flexibility of trinket change.
    I am using SOTR always when available - i just fail at timing things right.
    Contrary everyone's opinion i know how to gem/enchant- i will listen a reasoned response but not blind flailing that all my choices suck.

    Long version:

    1.
    SOTR can have uptime of roughly 25% (lasts 3 sec, preparation takes 7.5 or 9 seconds,dependant if i use any other skills in between) ... not much more in normal circumnstances (ofc. more with haste or proper cooldowns) ...And i'm using it whenever it's available.
    What i'm not good at is predicting when the overwhelming strike comes... sometimes it's at 26sec of buff remaining, sometimes it's even as low as 13sec... and even with 5 HoPo stacked up i cannot cover more than 6 sec of that period in a row...

    2.
    I AM hit/exp capped actually (or close to in on majority of cases)
    I have total of 4 trinkets to choose from so far--have had no luck in getting more:
    dps trinkets- lessons of darkmaster (str clicky), cold chorium coaster (10k AP proc)
    HP trinkets - relic of niuzao (8.8k dodge clicky) and brewfest stamina trinket.
    And i have 3 combinations i can use with them:
    My reforge gets me hitcapped and little over exp cap with both dps trinkets.
    hitcapped and 14.89% exp with darkmaster+ niuzao
    AND I am slightly below hit/exp cap with both stamina trinkets.
    this allows me to play around with my healthpool/dps abit as needed- (~50k possible healthpool difference) while remaining as close as possible to the cap at all cases.
    I will get more trinkets when i get lucky..i have no magic way to force them drop so far.

    3.
    And with about 476iLvl I would never gem into full stamina..
    are you looking at right person? my Ilvl is 484/485 depending on trinkets i use atm.
    stamina is side-product for my current gear mostly... exept few stam gems... i will look into getting them replaced with haste/something combinations.
    Mastery damage reduction percentage is high enough so i am trying to focus more on haste than mastery aswell just like your pally offtank.- significantly better uptime beats few % smaller damage reduced....

    4.
    additional- just replaced 2 of my full stam gems with stam/haste ones. - maybe lost few thousand health for now, we'll see how it works out.

    5. - to other posters. -
    there is no point trying to argue my holy prism choice. :P

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Our healing done: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...m/healingDone/

    Most healers, but the pala have logged out in their DPS gear, but yes. They should be all around 480ish ilvl.

    Answer from Ralador:
    That answer is frankly... wrong.

    6% haste would vastly improve his rotation, as well as his self heals from SS, SoI and whatever end tier talent he picks.

    It would improve his survivability by a large margin, and this only scales higher with skill and gear.

    By stacking HP instead he is just making himself look tankier, when in reality he is taking far more damage. 55k health makes little difference when you are taking 200k hits each time.

    Seriously, stamina stacking IS NOT a valid strategy. Stacking dodge/parry would be better for your current progression.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 09:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by metsla99 View Post
    5. - to other posters. -
    there is no point trying to argue my holy prism choice. :P
    Why? You are clearly wrong :S

    EDIT: Can you also specify what stops you from hitting a cooldown before unseen strike lands? For example Divine Protection (glyphed) or Ardent Defender? Or why your Sacred Shield uptime is so low? I mean, SOTR isn't your only problem here...

    EDIT 2: Lots of stam gems still, missing DP glyph, wrong chant on wep going by your armory
    Last edited by Kanadei; 2012-12-05 at 10:17 PM.

  17. #37
    Fine, here's my armory http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nglight/simple

    I'm 4/6 MSV HC and 16/16 normal so I'm not wrong in my choices obviously, because I know what I'm doing, since you seem to doubt everybody who is giving you the right advice.
    Holy Prism is very situationally good, but usually you can get away with using Light's Hammer for all fights, on some fights it's amazing (see Stone Guards, Wind Lord etc.)
    First of all, you need more mastery but I know gear might be an issue right now until you fully understand what you're doing. Make sure your hit/exp caps are in there, because you really honestly need them to keep your SotR uptime as high as possible.

    Now for timing, you say "just me failing on timing". That's no "just", that's the whole point of the active mitigation system. If you can't handle that, you're a bad tank, the end. So learn the fights and learn when your SotR can be really beneficial in negating big damage coming in, this is not only true for Blade Lord, but for alot of other bosses, like any dragon breath and so forth.

    Please, stop arguing with us, we're seriously only trying to help you kill the damn boss.
    Kunglight of Fractured - EU Twisting Nether
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  18. #38
    DBM has a very accurate timer as to when the next stack of the debuff will land.

    Watch it like a hawk. If you are still unsure then use Holy avenger the first time you tank, this will give you more than 20 seconds to time it. Next use GoaK, thats another 12 seconds of grace (whiile you can stack HP for another 6 seconds grace), 3rd time use holy avenger again.
    If you still end up getting wrecked by it then you're screwed :P

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