Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Saku, Estonia
    Posts
    2,504

    HoF NM Blade Lord help please!

    I will give you a bit of background on how we do the fight. Blade Lord NM is the boss.

    Set markers around the room, for pointers to people to stack in and for tanks to move. Start with BL. Starting from the right corridor of boss room (from the entrance). Take couple of unseen strikes there, then move to next marker, after one or 2 there, move to next and so on. Ranged and healers stay near the walls (or try to) out of the middle. When unseen strike comes we try to stack on the marker set.

    2 tank and 3 heal the fight. We cannot do this with 2 healers as all of our healers are OOM or close to it, when there is still some % to go to p2.

    Our reasons for wiping, improper stacking, one of the tank dieing, enrage. Everything else, but the tank dieing we are working on fixing. Which leads me to my questions:

    1) Why does our paladin tank die even when he has just one overwhelming assault stack or just right when he gets hit with the second overwhelming assault. As he has higher HP than me. If I get my second stack w/o any def. CD on, it brings me to around 10% HP and doesn't kill me, while it tends to one-shot the paladin. What is the difference in our survival? He starts the fight and tends to get more overwhelming assaults in, specially as the fight progresses as the damage increases, but I do tank it later on as well, but I stay alive.

    Me: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AD/advanced
    Paladin: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lador/advanced
    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...m/damageTaken/

    2) How to properly tank and place the boss. Our paladin is good at those things and well he is trying to make me (blonde as I am) try to understand on how the Unseen Strike hit. He said that markers are a good indication on how to make the Unseen Strike throw people at the right place. Boss i tanked so that he is "behind the marker" facing away from it, closer to the tornadoes. When the Unseen Strike is coming. People move to the marker, tank heads for marker as well, and people end up flying away from tornadoes.
    And the bosses is moved after 1-2 Unseen strikes to new location (depending on how well are the tornadoes placed).
    Once in a while the other tank takes the boss to X-alcove to position it better so the Unseen Strike location will be more controlled. Lets say tornadoes are behind the marker, some to the side, he drags him to an alcove, positions him there, though to me it seems as he is dragging boss to a bad place, keeping him maybe too close to other tornadoes. I just don't get that part, why does he do so, I don't get his fancy explanation (call me a bad tank or idiot, I don't mind).

    How should moving be handled?

    3) We stack on the person who gets the Unseen Strike, but occasionally it doesn't hit all the stacked people, hits all of the stacked people, but half won't be tossed away. What goes wrong there?

    Well, by now you are probably curled up on a floor laughing on how people can fail, but would be really nice if you'd try to give some advice.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
    Proud RL of 25-man 8/14 HC Open Raid PUG

    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  2. #2
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    www.deadmen.co.uk
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    How should moving be handled?
    We move using a tank taunt. The taunting tank moves out to their new location, boss then runs across to the new location which means healers have a chance to move without having to heal too. We do a more simple 2 position strat starting where the boss is and then swapping to the opposite side of the room. This minimises the movement needed.

    We find the US a bit hit & miss too, but if you group tightly enough get hit all the time to not have people die, especially if you leave out the debuffed person so they do not take extra damage.

  3. #3
    yo check out my tank's pov video, show you how to move the boss and where to stack. take a look

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i-h2hxnwUA

  4. #4
    For the Unseen Strike direction, the person targetted needs to face away from the group. The boss spawns in front of the target, facing them. So, if the target is facing straight ahead, everyone behind him will be hit. Also, have the target be forward about 2-3 steps from the raid, to ensure the cone is hitting everyone.

    This has to be fast though, as the last second or so before the boss appears, it seems like he already picked his location/direction.

  5. #5
    Okay, we've done it completely different from you guys, you seem to be overcomplicating the Unseen strike.
    What we basically did was have everyone stack up on the target. We MD at the start so we can start at one side of the room and slowly move to the other side. We usually cant even use all the room before we hit 20 %. Just make sure you dont take more than 1 or 2 strikes before you swap your position as tornado hits can get problematic at that point

    What i see as a big problem is your paladin tank (i can comment on this quite well since that's my job as well ).
    He should never go below 50 % even when getting hit by an assault. Since DBM fixed their timers so they actually display properly, make sure he uses SotR 1 second before the CD is off the Assault, that way he'll never take that massive hit that kills him later on.
    It'd be really helpful for him to go more for Mastery and less for the stamina trinkets, since they aren't all that good compared to the mastery trinkets.

    Looking over your logs, especially your mage dps seems really really low. I say tell him to respec frost most likely since fire took a big hit which will be even worse at lower gear levels
    Last edited by Misux; 2012-12-04 at 02:21 PM.
    Kunglight of Fractured - EU Twisting Nether
    Current progress 12/12 NM 1/12 HC

  6. #6
    We set 4 flags. One tank pulls him and drags him to one end of the hallway. I taunt off him at one stack. By then time i hit two stacks we are at 80% and the other tank taunts tot he next flag. Rinse and repeat down the room.

    Your pally tanks needs to learn to use Cds properly, end of story. if he keeps failing you can taunt of him just before the 2nd lands and u take it.

    As for unseen, we had this issue, tell your raid as soon as you get the arrow over your head STOP MOVING, they seem to feel the need to run like headless chickens so that you can't tell where the boss will land. if they don't move at all and everyone stacks on them it will hit everyone. if they run around they screw everyone up. Stand still and stack = win.

    3 healing is gonna suck as he gets ore stacks of intensify and will hit very hard at the end. Phase II we use hearthstones and healing pots while running the first gauntlet after an off spec Hotw from guardian tank and a revival from mistweaver monk to top us up. healers don't heal while running,t heir job is to get to the other end alive and heal there, that's it.

  7. #7
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Magtheridon-US
    Posts
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by Misux View Post
    Okay, we've done it completely different from you guys, you seem to be overcomplicating the Unseen strike.
    This. Don't bother with markers for unseen strike, that will just confuse people even more. Have the target move towards the center of the raid, and everyone else do the same. The only thing I'd tell the target is not to make any sudden turns at the last second because the boss will attack them from the front, so your raid has to be behind them.

    Also, you shouldn't be worried about getting tossed into a tornado by unseen strike. If your whole raid gets there in time, most people probably won't even be below 30% health after it hits, which is more than enough to survive a tornado hit or two (not likely to happen anyway).

  8. #8
    We stack on the current tank ~5s before the unseen strike. The target then faces and takes a little step towards a marker we have set in the middle of the room.

    As for your paladin tank getting rocked, it seems like an active mitigation issue.

    [21:51:37.596] Ralador's Shield of the Righteous fades from Ralador
    [21:51:50.434] Blade Lord Ta'yak casts Overwhelming Assault on Ralador
    [21:51:50.482] Blade Lord Ta'yak Overwhelming Assault Ralador 439938 (O: 23234)

    We never considered 3 healing. If people use personals when they have windstep, you use off-healing CDs on unseen, and make proper use of CDs in P2 - the healing is pretty manageable.

  9. #9
    Never never stack on stairs, we learned the hard way it doesn't hit everyone. This boss is retarded! You pretty much have everything down. If you have a shadow priest you can dispersion the hit by him/herself hunters can too! Make use of class mechanics! And on phase 2 just run dodge tornadoes and on the 2nd run at 12 % everyone but the 2 tanks take the slip stream all the way to the otherside.

  10. #10
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Saku, Estonia
    Posts
    2,504
    Thanks for the tips. We will try him out again tonight.

    Running around like headless chickens is our issue idd, we had moments when the person getting US on them and they were behind the tornado, everyone was like where? The DBM tomtom arrow is useful, but some time it is not enough.

    The comment on the US target needs to facing away from the raid is very useful info. Now we need to figure out which one - move to tank or stand still and all move to US victim - will work best for us.

    As for 3 healing. Well... Our 3 healers are close to OOM when we get closer to 20% and as far as I've asked, 2 healing will drain their mana even faster. Deterrance as far as I know only reduced the damage, but doesn't make the hunter immune to the rest of the damage. Please correct me here, but deterrence doesn't give you full damage immunity against US.

    Probably w/o a hunter's MD starting close to the bosses starting location, like shown on 3rd post's video in this topic would be optimal, as we loose less DPS that way. Because the travel time from bosses starting area to the one end of the corridor is long enough for us to loose some DPS. Probably me taking the boss after 1 stack from the paladin sound like something to try out.

    As for prot. pally. He says that his healing mastery is not that great and somethingsomething about to use it you need crapton of globals as well and mastery uptime of 25% or so.

    For us, on the tries when we reached p2, you don't need 2 tanks at boss, one tank+maybe one healer, for the last 1.5% percent till 10%. I can keep my self up during the running to the other end and with healer is easier and other tanks, other healers and DPS already in the new location gives lot of free pewpew time.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
    Proud RL of 25-man 8/14 HC Open Raid PUG

    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    As for prot. pally. He says that his healing mastery is not that great and somethingsomething about to use it you need crapton of globals as well and mastery uptime of 25% or so.

    For us, on the tries when we reached p2, you don't need 2 tanks at boss, one tank+maybe one healer, for the last 1.5% percent till 10%. I can keep my self up during the running to the other end and with healer is easier and other tanks, other healers and DPS already in the new location gives lot of free pewpew time.
    Well, I'm currently sitting in 488 ilevel gear and I have never (not even when i was 10 ilevels lower) had any issues with Overwhelming Assault because I was keeping my eyes open. The trick is to keep 5 HP ready 3 secs before and just using SotR, then a CS or J and another SotR after that. Even with his low mastery he should still get hit fairly low.

    Logs quite clearly tells me that he isn't using SotR the last 6-7 seconds before Assaults. Sometimes, he can just wait 1-2 seconds using his SotR and he shouldn't die. Tell him to play better and be more aware of timers or direct him here and I'll personally give him a slapping so he wakes up and stops whining...

    On another note, SotR doesn't take up any globals and whatever gains him HP he should be using all the time anyways, so he's basically either clueless or lying to explain himself to you. Also tell him to keep his SS up so he can save his SotR more for the Assaults.

    Gave you my Damage taken logs so you can compare them to his, he takes double the damage from Overwhelming assaults. He does take 2 more hits (another cycle) than me cuz your DPS isn't as good, but still should be lower.

    me
    him
    Last edited by Misux; 2012-12-04 at 10:24 PM.
    Kunglight of Fractured - EU Twisting Nether
    Current progress 12/12 NM 1/12 HC

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post

    1) Why does our paladin tank die even when he has just one overwhelming assault stack or just right when he gets hit with the second overwhelming assault. As he has higher HP than me. If I get my second stack w/o any def. CD on, it brings me to around 10% HP and doesn't kill me, while it tends to one-shot the paladin. What is the difference in our survival? He starts the fight and tends to get more overwhelming assaults in, specially as the fight progresses as the damage increases, but I do tank it later on as well, but I stay alive.

    Paladin: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lador/advanced
    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...m/damageTaken/
    In short, because he is bad.

    Looking at his armory, he is clearly following Askmrrobots paladin math (stam>all) instead of doing any actual research for himself.

    What he doesn't know is, Askmrrobot asks you to gear for stam because it gears based off heroic modes - ie in his current gear he doesn't get enough stats to use this strategy (nor does he need anywhere near that much health).

    If you guys are raiding 10 man, here is the stat priority he should be following:

    Hit Cap (7.5%) > Expertise (15%) > Haste > Mastery > Parry > Dodge

    He currently isn't expertise capped and since he has very low mastery and virtually no haste he will be getting very spiky damage in take - horrible for your healers and worse for the strike.

    Tell him to regear, get rid of brewfest trinket, expertise cap, take off stam gems and enchants, re-chant weapon to Windsong or Dancing Steel and improve his SotR uptime as well as popping a cooldown (we have a lot as paladins, including a glyphed 20% decrease with a 1 min cd, rotating that and other cds should mean he never takes a full strike to begin with) each time the overwhelming assault hits.

    It's called "Active Mitigation" for a reason. You can't just stack stam and then afk.

    EDIT: Just saw he is missing the glyph for Divine Protection which changes it to a 20% physical/20% magic decrease. That would help a lot on this fight as you can basically pop it every assault.

    EDIT 2: His healing done is very sub par for a Prot Paladin. He has a Sacred Shield uptime of 15%... this should be closer to 80% and would help decrease his damage taken by a lot.

    To put this into perspective. He used Sacred Shield 3 times in an 8.5 minute attempt. It's cooldown is 30 seconds.

    He's also using the worst end tier talent for Prot Pallys, Holy Prism is a healer talent or for PvP, he would be much better off with Light's Hammer or Execution Sentence - Light's Hammer especially scales very well with vengeance and helps with self/spot heals.
    Last edited by Luciferiuz; 2012-12-04 at 11:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Saku, Estonia
    Posts
    2,504
    Ralador's (paladin answers):
    I know what I'm doing with my enchants and gems.

    Losing stamina will not gain me enough other useful stats by far (or is basically 3% haste increase good enough for 50k HP loss?).

    Working on getting trinkets anyways - no luck on drops.

    Holy prism is most reliable of the talents for me - 20 sec cooldown, instant damage ... plus smart heal to help healers out.
    Light's hammer relies on loosely stacking/staying in one place for 16 seconds for both your target and raid - not what i would count reliable in this fight. On top of that ... 1 minute cooldown - too long to be that useful.

    Execution sentence may be nice but by my calculations, if i keep prism on cooldown I do get more damage out of it than execution sentence with it's 1 minute cooldown. One shot from it may do more damage yes... but 3 shots from holy prism do more and give roughly total of 750k healing over that minute as well ( ~40-50k per target, 5 targets, 3x per minute).

    God knows we do need that extra healing.

    I know I should be using sacred shield more... That is a mistake on my part.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-12-05 at 09:31 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
    Proud RL of 25-man 8/14 HC Open Raid PUG

    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  14. #14
    I kinda agree with the critique offered above. The only time stam matters is if there are huge spikes in damage that would kill you otherwise. 2 stam trinks is complete overkill. I don't use any and I have similarish gear. Dropping 1 and capping expertise will help.

    While overwhelming assault killed the tank, he died because he didn't have a cooldown up at the ONLY time that it matters for a tank in this fight. Lack of stam was not the underlying cause of death, lack of CD usage was.

    Since he has holy avenger talented he should use it. It's better than Guardian of the ancient kings for mitigating predictable physical damage. 18 seconds of unlimited holy power generation translates to over 20 seconds of -50% physical damage taken. He should use holy avenger 10 sec or so before the 2nd stack of overwhelming assault and then spam sotr on CD and he will take 50% less damage for 20 seconds or so. How awesome is that? Add to this sacred shield. Our last kill was 2 min shorter than your longest attempt and mine did over 1mill healing, put into your raid that means I did 4x more in a shorter attempt. It should heal / mitigate at least 10% of the dmg your pala took and is definately a place where he can improve.

    Also, if they haven't get the healer (and tank) to talent into clemency. Hand of protection removes the debuff ppl get, its a bit of a pain for dps but they can cancel the aura instantly and should get used to doing so. It will reduce healing req's quite dramatically.

    Finally, 2 healing seems counter intuative but it should work if your dps passes muster. Every minute the boss gets a "fury" type buff that increases his damage done. 3 healing it increases the damage you do and indirectly causes the damage received to spike towards the end of p1. Having said this, your mages and hunters dps needs to improve 32k from an ilevel 477 mage is in no way shape or form acceptable. I do more at ilevel 460 on a mage and I won't even raid on that char yet since I feel its subpar. Once again, longer fight = more damage received.


    Hope the above help and GL.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    707
    Stamina is not really stat to go on his gear lvl. As someone said he would do much better with other stats. It kinda makes me laugh when he says he should use sacred shield "more". SS should have near to 100% uptime, with high Vengeance it can absorb shitloads of damage and prevent death. Also, his SoTR uptime seems rather low and he is not using WoG to help healers(WoG with stacks of Bastion and Vengeance is basically another LoH)

    Compare some other palas on WoL and see whats their uptime on mentioned buffs...
    For example: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...7007#tab-auras
    Another one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...5294#tab-auras
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    "you need to understand that my computer and i have a relationship that was here before i met you, and will be here long after we break up. if i could have sex with the CD-rom drive, you would be irrelevant. just so we're clear on this"

  16. #16
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Saku, Estonia
    Posts
    2,504
    Are there any good WeakAura imports for HoF, as I've tried searching the forums, found topics but no import codes. I could be blind or idiot if there is a topic.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
    Proud RL of 25-man 8/14 HC Open Raid PUG

    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  17. #17
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Also, if they haven't get the healer (and tank) to talent into clemency. Hand of protection removes the debuff ppl get, its a bit of a pain for dps but they can cancel the aura instantly and should get used to doing so. It will reduce healing req's quite dramatically.
    This can help as well, all the paladins should use this and dps can just macro their spam ability with /cancelaura Hand of Protection.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 11:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Are there any good WeakAura imports for HoF, as I've tried searching the forums, found topics but no import codes. I could be blind or idiot if there is a topic.
    How could WA help you on this fight?
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    "you need to understand that my computer and i have a relationship that was here before i met you, and will be here long after we break up. if i could have sex with the CD-rom drive, you would be irrelevant. just so we're clear on this"

  18. #18
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    2,342
    Here is the log from our last kill of Blade Lord: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4355&e=4772

    You really shouldn't HAVE to 3 heal it. We ultimately 3 healed it because of our strat in P2 (I park at one end of the hallway, while the Paladin and Druid go to the other, and I help Lifegrip anyone who didn't quite "make it" back up to my platform when he switches sides).

    We've only ever had a tank death after 2 stacks of Overwhelming Assault. If your Paladin is consistently biting it from Overwhelming Assault, the most likely explanation is that he's not keeping his Active Mitigation up properly.

    As others have stated, he needs to stop stacking Stamina. This is not Wrath of the Lich King, or the end of DS. He doesn't have the gear to be stacking Stamina and have it actually be worthwhile. No amount of that Stamina is going to save him from Overwhelming Assault when his other stats are not correct.
    Tiriel <Demise> of US-Kel'Thuzad

    Thank you to Yoni for this AMAZING signature!

  19. #19
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Saku, Estonia
    Posts
    2,504
    WA well could possible make it more visible when the Overwhelming assault is off CD maybe.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
    Proud RL of 25-man 8/14 HC Open Raid PUG

    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    WA well could possible make it more visible when the Overwhelming assault is off CD maybe.
    That's why you have DBM. The timers were off the first week of HoF but now it's more reliable so he should be watching that.
    What the others have pointed out is also very true.
    For a trinket, until i got my Stuff of Nightmares (ToES) I was using a Ghost Iron Dragonling, just because it offers so damn much Hit/exp/mastery which is basically what we want.

    Holy Prism has become better since it became a smart heal, and personally i like it for that fight particularly for the same reasons he gives. It does sacrifice some uptime on SotR, and that's why you need to be much more aware of when you're using the buff. Especially at low haste and without hit/exp caps he should not be using anything hampering his uptime

    He needs to take this criticism, since he obviously needs to learn and not follow AskMrRobot blindly, since it's quite shit for Paladin gearing atm.
    Kunglight of Fractured - EU Twisting Nether
    Current progress 12/12 NM 1/12 HC

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •