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  1. #321
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    LOL, sort of why I hate it when "Real Americans" talk about Ford Trucks, Small Towns, Country Music, God, and Football (NFL not kickball).

    And your comment reminds me of Dr Stragelove for some reason.

    Well, it's rather funny, since Americans are the only people on earth I have ever heard of who wave the shit out of their flag, then pretend to be Canadians when they travel. (Americans stop doing that btw, or maybe americans present in this thread should just admit WHY they feel they need to do that, but then I suppose then you'd have to admit some things you don't want to.)
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  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Well, it's rather funny, since Americans are the only people on earth I have ever heard of who wave the shit out of their flag, then pretend to be Canadians when they travel. (Americans stop doing that btw, or maybe americans present in this thread should just admit WHY they feel they need to do that, but then I suppose then you'd have to admit some things you don't want to.)
    We pretend to be Canadians when we travel? Funny I've never pretended to be anything but an American and I've had no issues what so ever. But of course your assumption that americans pretend to be canadians must be correct, so what things do you think I should admit to that I don't want to?

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Well, it's rather funny, since Americans are the only people on earth I have ever heard of who wave the shit out of their flag, then pretend to be Canadians when they travel. (Americans stop doing that btw, or maybe americans present in this thread should just admit WHY they feel they need to do that, but then I suppose then you'd have to admit some things you don't want to.)
    I'm an American unless I visit a country that kidnaps Americans...in that case my wife is American and I'm Polish; I'm just tagging along
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    Me: whyumad* fixed. Seriously though, it's only because they rapin' eveerbody in here and I don't want you to be snatched out yo' windows.
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  4. #324
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Best documented =/= completely documented. While it's true that we have a ton of written and other records of classical Rome, there are also a ton of holes in our knowledge. It's not like we have the Roman equivalent of the Library of Congress sitting around intact.

    It's also interesting that you mention the siege of the Jewish rebels at Masada, the last holdouts of the First Jewish-Roman War. A war that was started by Judean militias attacking Romans and Greek in Jerusalem when they revolted against Roman-imposed taxes, and during which it's estimated over a million people died, many at the hands of the rebels as well as the Romans.

    It was intentional, because the actions of the people native to that land have been consistent though out history. I find it quiet sad that both-sides of the dispute fail to recognize they are the same people, and should be working together.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 02:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Well, it's rather funny, since Americans are the only people on earth I have ever heard of who wave the shit out of their flag, then pretend to be Canadians when they travel. (Americans stop doing that btw, or maybe americans present in this thread should just admit WHY they feel they need to do that, but then I suppose then you'd have to admit some things you don't want to.)
    I'm dual national USA and the UK, when I travel I am very proud of being from California, I wear Vans shoes, video game tee shirts, and khaki jeans. I say 'Dude' a lot. So I am not sure where you get the idea of Americans pretending to be Canadians. When I lived in London I knew some Canadians, they were quiet and meet, really boring. Now the Australians and Irish they knew how to Party so if I was to pretend to be something I would be Aussie or Irish, and then get wasted.

  5. #325
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    I don't trust Iran and have no reason to. Countries with a track record like Iran don't get afforded the benefit of the doubt by the west. If they don't like it, too bad, it's not their decision to make. Their lack of cooperation with UN inspectors means that the mere possibility of them developing nuclear weapons is cause for the west to hold them on a tight leash. Some nations can be trusted with nuclear weapons, unstable middle eastern nations do not qualify in that regard, therefore it is the responsibility of those in the world with power to make sure such destructive weaponry does not fall into irresponsible hands.
    "The truth, my goal."

  6. #326
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    I don't trust Iran and have no reason to. Countries with a track record like Iran don't get afforded the benefit of the doubt by the west. If they don't like it, too bad, it's not their decision to make. Their lack of cooperation with UN inspectors means that the mere possibility of them developing nuclear weapons is cause for the west to hold them on a tight leash. Some nations can be trusted with nuclear weapons, unstable middle eastern nations do not qualify in that regard, therefore it is the responsibility of those in the world with power to make sure such destructive weaponry does not fall into irresponsible hands.
    why dont you trust them? that just sounds like xenophobia to me. what has Iran actually done to make you have that opinion? you see israel which has never submitted to inspections and regularly attacks its neighbours in gaza and lebanon as more "trusted" country? why is that? "the west should hold them on a tight leash" like a dog do you mean? who are we to think we have that right? you know Iran had a popular democracy till the CIA and MI5 over threw it and imposed the Shah which then led to the Ayatollahs that they have now.

    if we do attack Iran as we did in Iraq, millions of innocent people will die. 1.5 million dead Iraqis, no WMDs found. no link to Al Queada. Do you really want another war? for what end? corporate profits?

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    It's our new way of getting rid of garbage. Fly it over Iran and let them deal with it.
    Good idea. Take all the crap in our landfills and fly it over Iran so they can shoot it down and deal with it. I like it.

  8. #328
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    why dont you trust them? that just sounds like xenophobia to me. what has Iran actually done to make you have that opinion? you see israel which has never submitted to inspections and regularly attacks its neighbours in gaza and lebanon as more "trusted" country? why is that? "the west should hold them on a tight leash" like a dog do you mean? who are we to think we have that right? you know Iran had a popular democracy till the CIA and MI5 over threw it and imposed the Shah which then led to the Ayatollahs that they have now.

    if we do attack Iran as we did in Iraq, millions of innocent people will die. 1.5 million dead Iraqis, no WMDs found. no link to Al Queada. Do you really want another war? for what end? corporate profits?
    I'm not xenophobic, I simply don't have faith in the ability of most middle eastern countries to make rational decisions. A lack of rationality and nuclear weapons are not a good mix. Can you honestly tell me that it is anything but a threat to the entire planet that a volatile part of the world like the middle east starts developing nuclear weapons? I'm really not interested in political correctness, it is time to face the truth of the situation, and if that means the west has to stand up and say no to Iran, and enforce that "no" to protect the safety of the west and the rest of the world then so be it.

    Who are we to think we have the right? We are the most powerful civilsation on the planet by miles, we are the most socially and morally advanced people the world has ever known. I don't see countless christian churches getting built in Saudi Arabia, I don't see immigrants flocking to Albania, I don't see the US government locking up a pop band for questioning the government, and I don't see UK men banning their women from owning mobile phones in case their wives use them to elope. Like it or not, we are in charge. The good thing is that our philosophies in the west mean that we respect every other culture and nation. We have no qualms with anyone unless they pose a threat to our existence. The only problem with our enlightened way of life is sometimes people go too far and start thinking that the west can solve all the world's problems. We still have to protect our interests and we cannot allow ourselves to get soft. The world has to know we will not stand by prattling on about rights while our citizens are jeopardised by people who do not afford us the same courtesy.
    "The truth, my goal."

  9. #329
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Sorry all I see in your post is xenophobia, racism and an almost god complex. Nuclear weapons are already in the region. The horse has bolted. Iran is no threat to us. Your world view is pretty skewed, I'd suggest travelling or reading more than just the daily mail. You want millions of dead Iranians because we're morally superior?

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by tibben View Post
    Good idea. Take all the crap in our landfills and fly it over Iran so they can shoot it down and deal with it. I like it.
    This made me laugh irl. Messed up but hilarious.

    "We have the latest US technology! Wait...what is this? Who would throw away a playboy magazine?! THIS IS WHY WE HATE AMERICANS!"
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  11. #331
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
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    There are two kinds of leadership. Leadership by force and leadership by "not-force". Sadly currently US is trying the force route. I don't think it works in today's world.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  12. #332
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Sorry all I see in your post is xenophobia, racism and an almost god complex. Nuclear weapons are already in the region. The horse has bolted. Iran is no threat to us. Your world view is pretty skewed, I'd suggest travelling or reading more than just the daily mail. You want millions of dead Iranians because we're morally superior?
    And your not? You start a thread at least once a day showing how much you hate Israel and America. I highly doubt you have an unbiased opinion. The truth is Tuvok is absolutely right. Although it's not just the USA an UK, it is the whole of the Modern Secular Western World. Civil rights for both men and women are considered universal, basic Democracy, respect for people of different races, and religions. The freedom to express your unique human qualities.

    In America we believe you have the right to hate America, and we will discourage anyone who wants to stop this right. Look at Syria, they have been an on and off friend of the west. The current leader has done a bunch of things to make peace with western nations, and even with Israel. The current uprising which is made up of people who hate America and Israel have both America and Israel sympathetic, to the point where people are asking publicly why we don't go it and remove him before he uses illegal WMD's on his own people. If we only cared about our interests would we be worried about the civilians?

    Don't get me wrong in the past America has made some blunders of policy, and the previous administration should be tried for war crimes and treason. But to think the modern western world is wrong is a statement of your lack of understanding of who we are and how we feel.

  13. #333
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Your completely wrong, I've never said I hate America or israel. Generally I don't respond to personal comments in a thread as it detracts from the thread.

    Not liking American foreign policy, Israeli oppression or the daily diet of lies were all fed through the media doesn't equate to hating a country or a people. 1.5 million dead Iraqis, a country broken up and largely ran by Iran, infrastructure ruined, corruption endemic doesn't sound like something I'd like to see repeated elsewhere. Why can't you recognise the harm your govt is doing? Or even understand why the rest of he world are unhappy about it? Sort your own house out and leave the ret of the world to do theirs.

  14. #334
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Your completely wrong, I've never said I hate America or israel.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=47675992

    Israel Recruits Army Of Bloggers To Troll Anti-War Websites
    Israel responses to U.N.
    General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=47676036

    I'll let the readers judge for them selves.

    Because once you were focused on Being Horde, now you are waging a propaganda war. P.S. any poli-sci major understands the best Propaganda is to take the truth and twist it to achieve your ambitions.

    Which is exactly what you are doing.


    Edit:

    If you fallow my posts you will see I significantly dislike the choices made by the Bush administration, they screwed the world over big time. I think the whole of the Bush family are criminals. But I also see that for everything there are 2 or more points of view, and none of them cover the full truth. I can see where Israel messed up, but they still deserve to be there. I can see where Bush started a bad war, and things have been f** up around the world because of it. But these things are not the fault of Americans or Jews. Also you don't think every nation has armies of bloggers posting? I am fairly curtain you and a couple of others could fall in that group.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2012-12-07 at 10:43 PM.

  15. #335
    We're violating their airspace? Hmmm...just what the fuck are they going to do about it? Lol. I don't think anyone wants to go to war with the United States. Perhaps if their leadership wasn't so adamant about threatening our allies, we would give a shit. As an average, politically neutral (well...libertarian) American, I couldn't give two shits what we get caught doing in Iran. If they want to start a war over it, while unfortunate for us, it's definitely way more unfortunate for them.

  16. #336
    I have a feeling that they're just sending old useless drones into Iranian airspace to let Northrop or Boeing claim the loss as a tax writeoff somehow.

  17. #337
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Sorry all I see in your post is xenophobia, racism and an almost god complex. Nuclear weapons are already in the region. The horse has bolted. Iran is no threat to us. Your world view is pretty skewed, I'd suggest travelling or reading more than just the daily mail. You want millions of dead Iranians because we're morally superior?
    I left my liberal idealism behind a long time ago in favour of a realisation of pure truth. The truth is that the west is the most powerful civilisation on Earth by far. Our civilisation believes in and fights for human rights. Our civilisation believes in an accountable government that can be thrown out by the people without fear of being squashed by tanks or killed with mustard gas or ak47s or rockets. Where other countries have to engage in civil war to overthrow the current government, we simply hold a vote of no cofidence. Our women are equal to the men. We accept immigrants from all over the world seeking a chance at a fair life. Our laws are based on reason and our justice system is not contaminated by religious doctrine. Yet still there are people even in our own land that seem to think we are the villains just because we have the courage to stand up for what we believe in.

    Self-hating apologist westerners have no place in the world, because they are so caught up in their own self-righteousness and idealism that they fail to realise just how advanced we are as a society. This is not the year 1,000,000 AD, this is 2012 AD. Humanity is not a utopia yet and there are still irrational, terrible people out there. Get out of your dream world and realise that you cannot defeat the enemies or threats of the west armed with nothing but good intentions. The west is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it is the damn best chance this world has at achieving the goal of freedom and peace for everyone. Hating on the west is ultimately self-destructive. You must face reality. The middle-east simply cannot be trusted with nuclear weaponry. You think they have the right to develop it because we have nuclear weapons? Wrong. We have proved that we will not use nuclear weapons against our enemies. Do you honestly believe fanatically religiously motivated nations possess the same amount of restraint the west does? Even if they do, do you have faith in the security of said nations and the integrity of the leaders to not allow these horrendously destructive weapons to fall into the hands of people who place no value on the life of a human?

    What I have is not a god complex, it is a realism complex, something which dreamers like yourself lack. I am the real dreamer here, because I envision where humanity will be millions and billions of years from now. Our progress will be stunted by people who cannot recognise what our best chances are at this moment in time. I applaud your good intentions, but you need to be practical. The fact that little girls are being killed in afghanistan simply because they believe in education for women should tell you how backwards nations like these are. And clearly the decent, upstanding muslim citizens don't have the will to stand up against this tyranny otherwise they would do so, therefore we are left with no choice but to take a harsh stance against this archaic way of life and make it very clear that we will not allow such people to pose a threat to our citizens and the people across the world we desire to protect from them.

    Power is power, and we have it in spades. How lucky for the world that the west is the most powerful civilisation. South America seemingly revolves around the drug trade, Africa contains countless nations caught up in individual wars led by psycopathic warlords, the middle east oppresses its women and enslaves itself to a religion, China still to this day suppresses its own citizens and Russia locks up pop singers in a siberian prison. My point is you don't realise how fucking lucky you are to be a part of the west, and yes everything could be so much better but we are dealing with humans and not fairies so it is time to get fucking real about this situation before we get so entranced in our fantasies that we end up falling behind.

    The west in its current state is only a stepping stone. The future of humanity has much more in store for it than this. But the west is necessary for the progression of mankind, it is a means to an end and not an end in itself and that is what I believe. I am not a patriot of the west. I am someone who sees the world for what it is, and sees the west as this world's best hope at this moment in time. I challenge you to give me a better example of a civilisation that stands for human rights and progression, then you can tell me the west isn't worth protecting vigourously.
    Last edited by Tuvok; 2012-12-07 at 11:07 PM.
    "The truth, my goal."

  18. #338
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Self hating apologist? What planet are you on? Get a grip. 1.5 million Iraqi dead for no strategic, moral or any other reason somewhat undermine your argument. What were we protecting there? That's advancing mankind is it. Your basically saying we're better than them, they're lesser humans. Untermensch even. The end justifies the means. We've heard that before somewhere. It didn't work out then either. The west is at a point of terminal decline. Economies have flat lined. We're massively in debt. We waste our money on pointless war. Wakeup and take your sub par mien kampf Psycho babble somewhere people don't read so much.

  19. #339
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    I left my liberal idealism behind a long time ago in favour of a realisation of pure truth.
    2012 AD.
    I know you and I have differing opinions on some politics, but what you wrote there I could not say better. Granted for me Swap the words "Liberal Idealism" with "Religious Conservatism".

    All of these problems we are seeing in Africa and the middle/Near East have to due with the Would moving towards a type 1 civilization. A world with one uniform government, economy, and has the Ability to colonize the solar system. Some estimate we will get there in 100 years, I am hoping for sooner. Sadly nations like Iran need to be addressed by the Global community. I am hoping for a peaceful resolution, although looking at human history I am sure it will be a big war with nukes.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    stuff
    You are living in well because your governments mass murdered/mass murdering brown/black people and used/using their natural as well as human resources. The very advancement of your "western civilization" is based on shit. You are sinked to shit up to your throat and now you are selling us fucking western moral and civilization?

    I agree with soulcrusher, you are a racist and you only see the realism from your point of view. Not because you don't want to, because you lack the perspective to understand realism. Read more, travel more and come back here.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 01:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I am hoping for a peaceful resolution, although looking at human history I am sure it will be a big war with nukes.
    West(USA) says hi about nukes. If there is one country(currently) that needs to be addressed by globe, thats USA. They should stop spreading democracy.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-12-07 at 11:45 PM.

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