It was intentional, because the actions of the people native to that land have been consistent though out history. I find it quiet sad that both-sides of the dispute fail to recognize they are the same people, and should be working together.
---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 02:52 PM ----------
I don't trust Iran and have no reason to. Countries with a track record like Iran don't get afforded the benefit of the doubt by the west. If they don't like it, too bad, it's not their decision to make. Their lack of cooperation with UN inspectors means that the mere possibility of them developing nuclear weapons is cause for the west to hold them on a tight leash. Some nations can be trusted with nuclear weapons, unstable middle eastern nations do not qualify in that regard, therefore it is the responsibility of those in the world with power to make sure such destructive weaponry does not fall into irresponsible hands.
"The truth, my goal."
if we do attack Iran as we did in Iraq, millions of innocent people will die. 1.5 million dead Iraqis, no WMDs found. no link to Al Queada. Do you really want another war? for what end? corporate profits?
Who are we to think we have the right? We are the most powerful civilsation on the planet by miles, we are the most socially and morally advanced people the world has ever known. I don't see countless christian churches getting built in Saudi Arabia, I don't see immigrants flocking to Albania, I don't see the US government locking up a pop band for questioning the government, and I don't see UK men banning their women from owning mobile phones in case their wives use them to elope. Like it or not, we are in charge. The good thing is that our philosophies in the west mean that we respect every other culture and nation. We have no qualms with anyone unless they pose a threat to our existence. The only problem with our enlightened way of life is sometimes people go too far and start thinking that the west can solve all the world's problems. We still have to protect our interests and we cannot allow ourselves to get soft. The world has to know we will not stand by prattling on about rights while our citizens are jeopardised by people who do not afford us the same courtesy.
"The truth, my goal."
Sorry all I see in your post is xenophobia, racism and an almost god complex. Nuclear weapons are already in the region. The horse has bolted. Iran is no threat to us. Your world view is pretty skewed, I'd suggest travelling or reading more than just the daily mail. You want millions of dead Iranians because we're morally superior?
Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfangi7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |
There are two kinds of leadership. Leadership by force and leadership by "not-force". Sadly currently US is trying the force route. I don't think it works in today's world.
I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.
In America we believe you have the right to hate America, and we will discourage anyone who wants to stop this right. Look at Syria, they have been an on and off friend of the west. The current leader has done a bunch of things to make peace with western nations, and even with Israel. The current uprising which is made up of people who hate America and Israel have both America and Israel sympathetic, to the point where people are asking publicly why we don't go it and remove him before he uses illegal WMD's on his own people. If we only cared about our interests would we be worried about the civilians?
Don't get me wrong in the past America has made some blunders of policy, and the previous administration should be tried for war crimes and treason. But to think the modern western world is wrong is a statement of your lack of understanding of who we are and how we feel.
Your completely wrong, I've never said I hate America or israel. Generally I don't respond to personal comments in a thread as it detracts from the thread.
Not liking American foreign policy, Israeli oppression or the daily diet of lies were all fed through the media doesn't equate to hating a country or a people. 1.5 million dead Iraqis, a country broken up and largely ran by Iran, infrastructure ruined, corruption endemic doesn't sound like something I'd like to see repeated elsewhere. Why can't you recognise the harm your govt is doing? Or even understand why the rest of he world are unhappy about it? Sort your own house out and leave the ret of the world to do theirs.
Israel Recruits Army Of Bloggers To Troll Anti-War Websites
Israel responses to U.N.
General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five
I'll let the readers judge for them selves.
Because once you were focused on Being Horde, now you are waging a propaganda war. P.S. any poli-sci major understands the best Propaganda is to take the truth and twist it to achieve your ambitions.
Which is exactly what you are doing.
If you fallow my posts you will see I significantly dislike the choices made by the Bush administration, they screwed the world over big time. I think the whole of the Bush family are criminals. But I also see that for everything there are 2 or more points of view, and none of them cover the full truth. I can see where Israel messed up, but they still deserve to be there. I can see where Bush started a bad war, and things have been f** up around the world because of it. But these things are not the fault of Americans or Jews. Also you don't think every nation has armies of bloggers posting? I am fairly curtain you and a couple of others could fall in that group.
We're violating their airspace? Hmmm...just what the fuck are they going to do about it? Lol. I don't think anyone wants to go to war with the United States. Perhaps if their leadership wasn't so adamant about threatening our allies, we would give a shit. As an average, politically neutral (well...libertarian) American, I couldn't give two shits what we get caught doing in Iran. If they want to start a war over it, while unfortunate for us, it's definitely way more unfortunate for them.
I have a feeling that they're just sending old useless drones into Iranian airspace to let Northrop or Boeing claim the loss as a tax writeoff somehow.
Self-hating apologist westerners have no place in the world, because they are so caught up in their own self-righteousness and idealism that they fail to realise just how advanced we are as a society. This is not the year 1,000,000 AD, this is 2012 AD. Humanity is not a utopia yet and there are still irrational, terrible people out there. Get out of your dream world and realise that you cannot defeat the enemies or threats of the west armed with nothing but good intentions. The west is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it is the damn best chance this world has at achieving the goal of freedom and peace for everyone. Hating on the west is ultimately self-destructive. You must face reality. The middle-east simply cannot be trusted with nuclear weaponry. You think they have the right to develop it because we have nuclear weapons? Wrong. We have proved that we will not use nuclear weapons against our enemies. Do you honestly believe fanatically religiously motivated nations possess the same amount of restraint the west does? Even if they do, do you have faith in the security of said nations and the integrity of the leaders to not allow these horrendously destructive weapons to fall into the hands of people who place no value on the life of a human?
What I have is not a god complex, it is a realism complex, something which dreamers like yourself lack. I am the real dreamer here, because I envision where humanity will be millions and billions of years from now. Our progress will be stunted by people who cannot recognise what our best chances are at this moment in time. I applaud your good intentions, but you need to be practical. The fact that little girls are being killed in afghanistan simply because they believe in education for women should tell you how backwards nations like these are. And clearly the decent, upstanding muslim citizens don't have the will to stand up against this tyranny otherwise they would do so, therefore we are left with no choice but to take a harsh stance against this archaic way of life and make it very clear that we will not allow such people to pose a threat to our citizens and the people across the world we desire to protect from them.
Power is power, and we have it in spades. How lucky for the world that the west is the most powerful civilisation. South America seemingly revolves around the drug trade, Africa contains countless nations caught up in individual wars led by psycopathic warlords, the middle east oppresses its women and enslaves itself to a religion, China still to this day suppresses its own citizens and Russia locks up pop singers in a siberian prison. My point is you don't realise how fucking lucky you are to be a part of the west, and yes everything could be so much better but we are dealing with humans and not fairies so it is time to get fucking real about this situation before we get so entranced in our fantasies that we end up falling behind.
The west in its current state is only a stepping stone. The future of humanity has much more in store for it than this. But the west is necessary for the progression of mankind, it is a means to an end and not an end in itself and that is what I believe. I am not a patriot of the west. I am someone who sees the world for what it is, and sees the west as this world's best hope at this moment in time. I challenge you to give me a better example of a civilisation that stands for human rights and progression, then you can tell me the west isn't worth protecting vigourously.
Last edited by Tuvok; 2012-12-07 at 11:07 PM.
"The truth, my goal."
Self hating apologist? What planet are you on? Get a grip. 1.5 million Iraqi dead for no strategic, moral or any other reason somewhat undermine your argument. What were we protecting there? That's advancing mankind is it. Your basically saying we're better than them, they're lesser humans. Untermensch even. The end justifies the means. We've heard that before somewhere. It didn't work out then either. The west is at a point of terminal decline. Economies have flat lined. We're massively in debt. We waste our money on pointless war. Wakeup and take your sub par mien kampf Psycho babble somewhere people don't read so much.
All of these problems we are seeing in Africa and the middle/Near East have to due with the Would moving towards a type 1 civilization. A world with one uniform government, economy, and has the Ability to colonize the solar system. Some estimate we will get there in 100 years, I am hoping for sooner. Sadly nations like Iran need to be addressed by the Global community. I am hoping for a peaceful resolution, although looking at human history I am sure it will be a big war with nukes.
I agree with soulcrusher, you are a racist and you only see the realism from your point of view. Not because you don't want to, because you lack the perspective to understand realism. Read more, travel more and come back here.
---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 01:41 AM ----------
Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-12-07 at 11:45 PM.