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  1. #361
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    No. Should I?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 08:56 AM ----------

    Oh sorry I forgot how, for you, not blindly supporting and swallowing every piece of crap, AUTOMATICALLY makes you an active member of some Iranian terrorist organisation.

    Black and white black and white black and white YUHU!!
    Life is so simple like that aint it?
    I don't even know what you're talking about now. I'm not even sure you know what you're talking about. You're kind of babbling. I'm simply pointing out that the man you're praising for superficial populist nonsense also happens to condone the beheading of homosexuals by paramilitary secret police as a valid means of enforcing his country's batshit crazy laws.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  2. #362
    it's still beyond me why the US doesn't destroy lost drones ...

  3. #363
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    I don't even know what you're talking about now. I'm not even sure you know what you're talking about. You're kind of babbling. I'm simply pointing out that the man you're praising for superficial populist nonsense also happens to condone the beheading of homosexuals by paramilitary secret police as a valid means of enforcing his country's batshit crazy laws.
    The man im praising...
    Let me tell you.
    You are "simply pointing" nothing. You are cherry picking ONE aspect of my post SECONDARY to the subject I was treating, twisting it to suit your shallow accusations, and working on it to 1) derail from the subject of the post 2) take the chance to put some dust over people's eyes, aka saying I praise Ahmadinejad.
    That's exactly what you were doing.
    You weren't pointing, you weren't informing, you weren't being constructive.

    You were being misleading.
    Last edited by mmocea043e1e13; 2012-12-08 at 01:44 PM.

  4. #364
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    tbh theres lots to not like about Iran, religious oppression and minorities rights. Because we dont like them doesnt mean i want to kill them to freedom like we did in Iraq with its 1.5 million dead. if we hadnt backed iran into a corner with sanctions and whatever else im fairly confidant the iranian people would have over thrown the clerics by now. but then i dont think peace and harmony are the real reason we want to attack iran. as for economics, modern warfare is expensive and bar making money for haliburton i doubt the average american tax payer will find war a good investment. reading some of the posts on here id say education was a higher requirement.

  5. #365
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    The man im praising...
    Let me tell you.
    You are "simply pointing" nothing. You are cherry picking ONE aspect of my post SECONDARY to the subject I was treating, twisting it to suit your shallow accusations, and working on it to 1) derail from the subject of the post 2) take the chance to put some dust over people's eyes, aka saying I praise Ahmadinejad.
    That's exactly what you were doing.
    You weren't pointing, you weren't informing, you weren't being constructive.

    You were being misleading.
    You can't be serious. Half of your post was about how the West doesn't know about the really going on in Iran. Then you go on to say that even if Iran is as bad as we think it is, you like the fact that he dresses like a normal human being, has a garden, and doesn't drive a flashy car. I'm sorry if I took your apologetics for one of the nastiest regimes on the planet as an actual statement of your feelings about the situation. Next time I'll use my powers of divination to read your mind instead of your words.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    You can't be serious. Half of your post was about how the West doesn't know about the really going on in Iran. Then you go on to say that even if Iran is as bad as we think it is, you like the fact that he dresses like a normal human being, has a garden, and doesn't drive a flashy car. I'm sorry if I took your apologetics for one of the nastiest regimes on the planet as an actual statement of your feelings about the situation. Next time I'll use my powers of divination to read your mind instead of your words.
    Or you coud also read the post, understand the meaning, THEN reply.
    So lets get to the matter.
    You think all the informations we have about Iran are accurate, spot on, not at all influenced by anyone at all.
    You know what they say, fool me once....

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 07:49 PM ----------

    And yes. Since I'm not blindly following anyone, I am glad to admit that not only I like that about him, but I also recognise that if we adopted some of that, in change for some better understanding of human rights we'd all be happy.

  7. #367
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
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    As a persian person who still lives in Iran these threads really amuse me. All the well-informed people around here ..... I must be very misinformed about my own country. Let me clarify few points:


    1- Women are having hard time in Iran but it has gotten alot better; and no, they don't get raped here all the time, not any more than the next country anyway. It is harder in the sense that they don't get the same job opportunities the men get (most managing positions are still filled with men) and they have wear islamic cover while outta house whether they believe in it or not. I'm sure they have it way better than most of arabic countries around. But feminism is doing its thing here too. Still it is going to take some time for people to change the way they think (me included) which is what it takes for things to get better.

    2- Homosexuality IS supposed to be punished by death (some religious crap) but I've never actually heard of that law being enforced. They just keep it secret and frankly no one really cares. I think the government prefers to have its reports showing no sign of it than actually admitting there are homosexuals around and executing them. They are not culturally accepted by most people though.

    3- Most of the community (above 50% including the educated and civilized) do not agree with our government's foreign policy and think it is wrong. Hell we don't even like their domestic policies while we're at it.

    4- I work in power industry and I assure you we absolutely don't need a nuclear power plant. We can have all the power we need using SC or CC power plants (Iran is the 2nd country in the world when it comes to natural gas resources). But just so you know, the nuclear power plant's contract was signed before the revolution about 35 years ago and back then everyone, including US, seemed to be OK with it. Funny thing this same regime executed the guy who signed the nuclear contract with russia because they thought it was treason to have nuclear power plant in a country that doesn't need it. Now the same guys want the power plant. Really no idea here.

    5- Generally people here don't like or at best don't care about US. Lets face it you guys haven't really played nice for the last 33 years. Still I think they would pick US over China if they were given the choice.

    6- Iraq attacked Iran. The war took 8 years. US, UK and few other countries supported Iraq and Russia supported Iran (or sold to both sides maybe). In the end both sides agreed to just forget about it and let it go. ( ) Surprisingly we have a pretty good relationship with Iraqi people. I personally like those fellas.

    7- I think at this point we all agree that US is not really fair when it comes to who should have what and its not really about making the world a better place. If you really think it is about human rights or making the world a better place you should think about how many starving Africans could be saved for every Iraqi or Afghanistan citizen killed. In the end there was no WMD in Iraq and all it took to kill Bin Laden were few commandos.

    8- If you are looking for extremists you should look in both sides. There are some Zionists that believe they are superior to everyone else and they are not even secretive about it. OFC this side has few crazy guys of its own too.

    9- Not a Muslim but living in an Islamic country I can tell you the bad stuff doesn't come from the religion. It comes from the corrupt mind of its followers. I assure you Iranians would be the very same people if they were Christians. You will be surprised how similar Islam is to other religions. Not that I like the rest of'em, but lets not bring religions into this and make it more complicated than it already is.

    10- Iran's army is very well equipped and the guys in charge up there really know their shit. You want proof, look at Hezbollah and Israel's history (not that I support any side).

    11- Terrorist is something you make up. If you are the guy in charge you define who is the terrorist and who is the victim. If Iran was in charge it was probably the other way around. So these words don't really mean anything. You go to Iraq and kill 1.5m people and you act like your soldiers are heroes and you have done something epic that should be written in history with golden pen or something. The guy blows up a car and kills 2 americans he becomes a terrorist. My point is words can be deceiving and what you have in your mind is not necessarily accepted by others.

    TLDR: Its not that simple. There is no good guys or bad guys. There are two uptight hard asses who are not willing to let go of their stupidity and solve the damn problem.

    O.T. I personally don't know what to make of it. Usually both sides lie when it comes to these matters. I'm sure my side does.

    P.S. There is a Lebanese-born French Christian author called Amin Maalouf. I think it was in 2009 he wrote a book called "Le Dérèglement du monde" ("troubled world" or something close) on this very subject. Why americans didn't become the knight in shining armor they expected, why muslims and jews are having problems and all that. It is a very interesting read from someone who has seen both sides, if you can find the english version.

    Sorry for bad english...
    Last edited by Deleo; 2012-12-09 at 04:51 AM.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  8. #368
    Deleted
    I bet my balls someone is going to come up with something like, "this guy is not really Iranian"

  9. #369
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Or you coud also read the post, understand the meaning, THEN reply.
    So lets get to the matter.
    You think all the informations we have about Iran are accurate, spot on, not at all influenced by anyone at all.
    You know what they say, fool me once....

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 07:49 PM ----------

    And yes. Since I'm not blindly following anyone, I am glad to admit that not only I like that about him, but I also recognise that if we adopted some of that, in change for some better understanding of human rights we'd all be happy.
    Ah man, I love posts like this. The problem isn't that you're either unclear or intentionally saying something awful, it's that I'm not reading or understanding your meaning. Got it.

    Anyway, have fun being an apologist for the Iranian government!
    Last edited by Beavis; 2012-12-08 at 09:15 PM.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    Ah man, I love posts like this. The problem isn't not that you're either unclear or intentionally saying something awful, it's that I'm not reading or understanding your meaning. Got it.

    Anyway, have fun being an apologist for the Iranian government!
    I will. It's great to be able to think with your own head and not be part of the hive you know?
    You get to decide what you like and what you don't like based on YOUR OWN judgement (amazing isnt it).

    An apologist for the Iranian government... Do you come up with this crap by yourself or you have it written somewhere?
    Anyway, read that guy's post while you're around here.
    See if you learn something.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    I get it now, the US tactic is to send drones in Iran and bury them in drones. One day, every iranian will have a battle drone, using them as toys around and not even knowing what to do with them.


    Actually... the chinese/russians could reverse engineer it and get their own. They're not that stupid.
    We're talking about the chinese dude! I bet by now they already have reverse-engineered, duplicated every possible part of the drone and sell them as toys all over the world.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 10:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    I'm not xenophobic, I simply don't have faith in the ability of most middle eastern countries to make rational decisions. A lack of rationality and nuclear weapons are not a good mix. Can you honestly tell me that it is anything but a threat to the entire planet that a volatile part of the world like the middle east starts developing nuclear weapons? I'm really not interested in political correctness, it is time to face the truth of the situation, and if that means the west has to stand up and say no to Iran, and enforce that "no" to protect the safety of the west and the rest of the world then so be it.

    Who are we to think we have the right? We are the most powerful civilsation on the planet by miles, we are the most socially and morally advanced people the world has ever known. I don't see countless christian churches getting built in Saudi Arabia, I don't see immigrants flocking to Albania, I don't see the US government locking up a pop band for questioning the government, and I don't see UK men banning their women from owning mobile phones in case their wives use them to elope. Like it or not, we are in charge. The good thing is that our philosophies in the west mean that we respect every other culture and nation. We have no qualms with anyone unless they pose a threat to our existence. The only problem with our enlightened way of life is sometimes people go too far and start thinking that the west can solve all the world's problems. We still have to protect our interests and we cannot allow ourselves to get soft. The world has to know we will not stand by prattling on about rights while our citizens are jeopardised by people who do not afford us the same courtesy.

    And this: "The truth is that the west is the most powerful civilisation on Earth by far. Our civilisation believes in and fights for human rights."

    Tuut tuut!

    So what's it gonna be fruitcake?
    Last edited by tibe; 2012-12-08 at 09:32 PM.

  12. #372
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    Anyway, have fun being an apologist for the Iranian government!
    its not really about apologising for anyone is it? its about not wanting to see another Iraq and over a million people dead.

  13. #373
    This whole post is getting funny. Human rights really... You would have to be a blind follower to think any of the middle east wars happen over this. I am a US citzen and i really dont care about these wars until they spill onto our soil or have the threat to. Fear is the most powerful weapon. If a country is about to gain the power to put fear in the US via chemical, biological or nuclear i expect my government to preemptively strike. We have to power to attack early so yes i believe we should.

    Most of the fights are also fossil fuel driven. As of right now it is by far the cheapest way to get things as the oil industry controls the world paying off politians. If the oild industry wants something they can easily pay off a few people to get it. They rule the world. The US is just their muscle right now.

    Iraq was the best stategic point to take as a start for a new stronghold in the middle east it just hasnt worked that way. Im not a US follower i just understand how the world works, my country takes care of our best intrests first as i expect them to. If its beneficially to me that we invade then by all means if people are willing to invade say some other country go for it. Most of the wars before this were the direct part of the cold war. It wasnt a war with the countries we fought but an indirect way to have our war with the USSR without spilling it to either of oir shores. So to say the us did anything without it being a slight at Russia is assinign. There will always be war because there will always be extremists just glad it has stayed off my shores.

  14. #374
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    If a country is about to gain the power to put fear in the US via chemical, biological or nuclear i expect my government to preemptively strike. We have to power to attack early so yes i believe we should.
    neither Iraq or now Iran is/was a threat to the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    As of right now it is by far the cheapest way to get things as the oil industry controls the world paying off politians. If the oild industry wants something they can easily pay off a few people to get it. They rule the world. The US is just their muscle right now.

    Iraq was the best stategic point to take as a start for a new stronghold in the middle east it just hasnt worked that way. I If its beneficially to me that we invade then by all means if people are willing to invade say some other country go for it.
    not sure if im understanding you but are you saying it was a good thing to kill 1.5 million iraqis as it benfited the USA financially?

  15. #375
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    This whole post is getting funny. Human rights really... You would have to be a blind follower to think any of the middle east wars happen over this. I am a US citzen and i really dont care about these wars until they spill onto our soil or have the threat to. Fear is the most powerful weapon. If a country is about to gain the power to put fear in the US via chemical, biological or nuclear i expect my government to preemptively strike. We have to power to attack early so yes i believe we should.

    Most of the fights are also fossil fuel driven. As of right now it is by far the cheapest way to get things as the oil industry controls the world paying off politians. If the oild industry wants something they can easily pay off a few people to get it. They rule the world. The US is just their muscle right now.

    Iraq was the best stategic point to take as a start for a new stronghold in the middle east it just hasnt worked that way. Im not a US follower i just understand how the world works, my country takes care of our best intrests first as i expect them to. If its beneficially to me that we invade then by all means if people are willing to invade say some other country go for it. Most of the wars before this were the direct part of the cold war. It wasnt a war with the countries we fought but an indirect way to have our war with the USSR without spilling it to either of oir shores. So to say the us did anything without it being a slight at Russia is assinign. There will always be war because there will always be extremists just glad it has stayed off my shores.
    You first ramble about how the wars are initiated by those with the money and the oil industry, and then goes on to speak about how those wars benefit you? Unless you're one of these "big shots" all what these wars do, is reduce your quality of life.

  16. #376
    Sorry about the babbling but to rephrase my point, the war was initiated by the oil industry with planned minimal benefits for the US or at least reasons given. The new wars are the war for fossil fuels. It has more to do with blocking china from getting the oil. Its just like the cold war. We got into vietnam over communism, our war with korea was about the same but earlier. With the fall of Russia we had a new objective spear headed by the oil company lobiests. We dont do anything for human rights by killing people. And yes even thoigh one and a half million people died its a part of war. War doesnt happen without casualties hence not a human rights thing. How can the us buy oil from iran right now with the sanction and not look like a hypocrite? But it can go to china when we feel it should come to us. There is always an underlying reason for wars now a days that gets covered up. If we wanted to save the world we would use our defense budjet for other things, but we dont we use them for gaining things like all wars have.always been. Its either defense or attacking for gain.

    It has nothing to do with human rights. We are a capitalistic country trying to gain more capital.

  17. #377
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    neither Iraq or now Iran is/was a threat to the USA



    not sure if im understanding you but are you saying it was a good thing to kill 1.5 million iraqis as it benfited the USA financially?

    Um think agian, the Iraq war only benefited one group of Nations and the US is not one of them, you really need to rethink who you hate. Their are 3 of you who hate America and Israel so much that you are blind to what is really going on, sad thing is I bet you live in a nation which has media controlled by the actual guilty party. Who controls Iraq's oil now? Who had the biggest gain from that war? Who would benefit from the US invading Iran? Who benefits from the Muslim Community always hating Israel? Who has rewritten history? Who pays/bribes/blackmails nations to do what they want? Who has that kind of wealth and power?

  18. #378
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Um think agian, the Iraq war only benefited one group of Nations and the US is not one of them, you really need to rethink who you hate. Their are 3 of you who hate America and Israel so much that you are blind to what is really going on, sad thing is I bet you live in a nation which has media controlled by the actual guilty party. Who controls Iraq's oil now? Who had the biggest gain from that war? Who would benefit from the US invading Iran? Who benefits from the Muslim Community always hating Israel? Who has rewritten history? Who pays/bribes/blackmails nations to do what they want? Who has that kind of wealth and power?
    A couple of things

    I was responding to a previous poster and his comments about the war being financially justified
    Stop mixing dislike of a governments foreign policy with hatred for a nation. Like a lot of people in the west I grew up with a love of America, it's music and it's culture. Recent foreign policy including war for oil and targeted assignation from drones are for me things that should be discussed. A lot of Americans don't like these things either.
    Lastly who do you mean? Which country?

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wouldn't it be hilarious if the US was loading these old drones up with absolutely fake coding and parts/devices that do nothing but look integral, then letting them fall into the hands of Iran in the hope they make it over to China and completely confuse them?

    /tinfoilhat
    That's actually a pretty brilliant idea.

  20. #380
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Lastly who do you mean? Which country?

    Who has the most to gain from the War in Iraq, and a possible war in Iran. As a famous detective once said, the guilty party is usually the one with the most to gain.

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