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  1. #321
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Sorry all I see in your post is xenophobia, racism and an almost god complex. Nuclear weapons are already in the region. The horse has bolted. Iran is no threat to us. Your world view is pretty skewed, I'd suggest travelling or reading more than just the daily mail. You want millions of dead Iranians because we're morally superior?

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by tibben View Post
    Good idea. Take all the crap in our landfills and fly it over Iran so they can shoot it down and deal with it. I like it.
    This made me laugh irl. Messed up but hilarious.

    "We have the latest US technology! Wait...what is this? Who would throw away a playboy magazine?! THIS IS WHY WE HATE AMERICANS!"
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  3. #323
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
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    There are two kinds of leadership. Leadership by force and leadership by "not-force". Sadly currently US is trying the force route. I don't think it works in today's world.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  4. #324
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Sorry all I see in your post is xenophobia, racism and an almost god complex. Nuclear weapons are already in the region. The horse has bolted. Iran is no threat to us. Your world view is pretty skewed, I'd suggest travelling or reading more than just the daily mail. You want millions of dead Iranians because we're morally superior?
    And your not? You start a thread at least once a day showing how much you hate Israel and America. I highly doubt you have an unbiased opinion. The truth is Tuvok is absolutely right. Although it's not just the USA an UK, it is the whole of the Modern Secular Western World. Civil rights for both men and women are considered universal, basic Democracy, respect for people of different races, and religions. The freedom to express your unique human qualities.

    In America we believe you have the right to hate America, and we will discourage anyone who wants to stop this right. Look at Syria, they have been an on and off friend of the west. The current leader has done a bunch of things to make peace with western nations, and even with Israel. The current uprising which is made up of people who hate America and Israel have both America and Israel sympathetic, to the point where people are asking publicly why we don't go it and remove him before he uses illegal WMD's on his own people. If we only cared about our interests would we be worried about the civilians?

    Don't get me wrong in the past America has made some blunders of policy, and the previous administration should be tried for war crimes and treason. But to think the modern western world is wrong is a statement of your lack of understanding of who we are and how we feel.

  5. #325
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Your completely wrong, I've never said I hate America or israel. Generally I don't respond to personal comments in a thread as it detracts from the thread.

    Not liking American foreign policy, Israeli oppression or the daily diet of lies were all fed through the media doesn't equate to hating a country or a people. 1.5 million dead Iraqis, a country broken up and largely ran by Iran, infrastructure ruined, corruption endemic doesn't sound like something I'd like to see repeated elsewhere. Why can't you recognise the harm your govt is doing? Or even understand why the rest of he world are unhappy about it? Sort your own house out and leave the ret of the world to do theirs.

  6. #326
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Your completely wrong, I've never said I hate America or israel.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=47675992

    Israel Recruits Army Of Bloggers To Troll Anti-War Websites
    Israel responses to U.N.
    General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=47676036

    I'll let the readers judge for them selves.

    Because once you were focused on Being Horde, now you are waging a propaganda war. P.S. any poli-sci major understands the best Propaganda is to take the truth and twist it to achieve your ambitions.

    Which is exactly what you are doing.


    Edit:

    If you fallow my posts you will see I significantly dislike the choices made by the Bush administration, they screwed the world over big time. I think the whole of the Bush family are criminals. But I also see that for everything there are 2 or more points of view, and none of them cover the full truth. I can see where Israel messed up, but they still deserve to be there. I can see where Bush started a bad war, and things have been f** up around the world because of it. But these things are not the fault of Americans or Jews. Also you don't think every nation has armies of bloggers posting? I am fairly curtain you and a couple of others could fall in that group.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2012-12-07 at 10:43 PM.

  7. #327
    I have a feeling that they're just sending old useless drones into Iranian airspace to let Northrop or Boeing claim the loss as a tax writeoff somehow.

  8. #328
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Sorry all I see in your post is xenophobia, racism and an almost god complex. Nuclear weapons are already in the region. The horse has bolted. Iran is no threat to us. Your world view is pretty skewed, I'd suggest travelling or reading more than just the daily mail. You want millions of dead Iranians because we're morally superior?
    I left my liberal idealism behind a long time ago in favour of a realisation of pure truth. The truth is that the west is the most powerful civilisation on Earth by far. Our civilisation believes in and fights for human rights. Our civilisation believes in an accountable government that can be thrown out by the people without fear of being squashed by tanks or killed with mustard gas or ak47s or rockets. Where other countries have to engage in civil war to overthrow the current government, we simply hold a vote of no cofidence. Our women are equal to the men. We accept immigrants from all over the world seeking a chance at a fair life. Our laws are based on reason and our justice system is not contaminated by religious doctrine. Yet still there are people even in our own land that seem to think we are the villains just because we have the courage to stand up for what we believe in.

    Self-hating apologist westerners have no place in the world, because they are so caught up in their own self-righteousness and idealism that they fail to realise just how advanced we are as a society. This is not the year 1,000,000 AD, this is 2012 AD. Humanity is not a utopia yet and there are still irrational, terrible people out there. Get out of your dream world and realise that you cannot defeat the enemies or threats of the west armed with nothing but good intentions. The west is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it is the damn best chance this world has at achieving the goal of freedom and peace for everyone. Hating on the west is ultimately self-destructive. You must face reality. The middle-east simply cannot be trusted with nuclear weaponry. You think they have the right to develop it because we have nuclear weapons? Wrong. We have proved that we will not use nuclear weapons against our enemies. Do you honestly believe fanatically religiously motivated nations possess the same amount of restraint the west does? Even if they do, do you have faith in the security of said nations and the integrity of the leaders to not allow these horrendously destructive weapons to fall into the hands of people who place no value on the life of a human?

    What I have is not a god complex, it is a realism complex, something which dreamers like yourself lack. I am the real dreamer here, because I envision where humanity will be millions and billions of years from now. Our progress will be stunted by people who cannot recognise what our best chances are at this moment in time. I applaud your good intentions, but you need to be practical. The fact that little girls are being killed in afghanistan simply because they believe in education for women should tell you how backwards nations like these are. And clearly the decent, upstanding muslim citizens don't have the will to stand up against this tyranny otherwise they would do so, therefore we are left with no choice but to take a harsh stance against this archaic way of life and make it very clear that we will not allow such people to pose a threat to our citizens and the people across the world we desire to protect from them.

    Power is power, and we have it in spades. How lucky for the world that the west is the most powerful civilisation. South America seemingly revolves around the drug trade, Africa contains countless nations caught up in individual wars led by psycopathic warlords, the middle east oppresses its women and enslaves itself to a religion, China still to this day suppresses its own citizens and Russia locks up pop singers in a siberian prison. My point is you don't realise how fucking lucky you are to be a part of the west, and yes everything could be so much better but we are dealing with humans and not fairies so it is time to get fucking real about this situation before we get so entranced in our fantasies that we end up falling behind.

    The west in its current state is only a stepping stone. The future of humanity has much more in store for it than this. But the west is necessary for the progression of mankind, it is a means to an end and not an end in itself and that is what I believe. I am not a patriot of the west. I am someone who sees the world for what it is, and sees the west as this world's best hope at this moment in time. I challenge you to give me a better example of a civilisation that stands for human rights and progression, then you can tell me the west isn't worth protecting vigourously.
    Last edited by Tuvok; 2012-12-07 at 11:07 PM.
    "The truth, my goal."

  9. #329
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Self hating apologist? What planet are you on? Get a grip. 1.5 million Iraqi dead for no strategic, moral or any other reason somewhat undermine your argument. What were we protecting there? That's advancing mankind is it. Your basically saying we're better than them, they're lesser humans. Untermensch even. The end justifies the means. We've heard that before somewhere. It didn't work out then either. The west is at a point of terminal decline. Economies have flat lined. We're massively in debt. We waste our money on pointless war. Wakeup and take your sub par mien kampf Psycho babble somewhere people don't read so much.

  10. #330
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    I left my liberal idealism behind a long time ago in favour of a realisation of pure truth.
    2012 AD.
    I know you and I have differing opinions on some politics, but what you wrote there I could not say better. Granted for me Swap the words "Liberal Idealism" with "Religious Conservatism".

    All of these problems we are seeing in Africa and the middle/Near East have to due with the Would moving towards a type 1 civilization. A world with one uniform government, economy, and has the Ability to colonize the solar system. Some estimate we will get there in 100 years, I am hoping for sooner. Sadly nations like Iran need to be addressed by the Global community. I am hoping for a peaceful resolution, although looking at human history I am sure it will be a big war with nukes.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    stuff
    You are living in well because your governments mass murdered/mass murdering brown/black people and used/using their natural as well as human resources. The very advancement of your "western civilization" is based on shit. You are sinked to shit up to your throat and now you are selling us fucking western moral and civilization?

    I agree with soulcrusher, you are a racist and you only see the realism from your point of view. Not because you don't want to, because you lack the perspective to understand realism. Read more, travel more and come back here.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 01:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I am hoping for a peaceful resolution, although looking at human history I am sure it will be a big war with nukes.
    West(USA) says hi about nukes. If there is one country(currently) that needs to be addressed by globe, thats USA. They should stop spreading democracy.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-12-07 at 11:45 PM.

  12. #332
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    I left my liberal idealism behind a long time ago in favour of a realisation of pure truth. The truth is that the west is the most powerful civilisation on Earth by far. Our civilisation believes in and fights for human rights. Our civilisation believes in an accountable government that can be thrown out by the people without fear of being squashed by tanks or killed with mustard gas or ak47s or rockets. Where other countries have to engage in civil war to overthrow the current government, we simply hold a vote of no cofidence. Our women are equal to the men. We accept immigrants from all over the world seeking a chance at a fair life. Our laws are based on reason and our justice system is not contaminated by religious doctrine. Yet still there are people even in our own land that seem to think we are the villains just because we have the courage to stand up for what we believe in.

    Self-hating apologist westerners have no place in the world, because they are so caught up in their own self-righteousness and idealism that they fail to realise just how advanced we are as a society. This is not the year 1,000,000 AD, this is 2012 AD. Humanity is not a utopia yet and there are still irrational, terrible people out there. Get out of your dream world and realise that you cannot defeat the enemies or threats of the west armed with nothing but good intentions. The west is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it is the damn best chance this world has at achieving the goal of freedom and peace for everyone. Hating on the west is ultimately self-destructive. You must face reality. The middle-east simply cannot be trusted with nuclear weaponry. You think they have the right to develop it because we have nuclear weapons? Wrong. We have proved that we will not use nuclear weapons against our enemies. Do you honestly believe fanatically religiously motivated nations possess the same amount of restraint the west does? Even if they do, do you have faith in the security of said nations and the integrity of the leaders to not allow these horrendously destructive weapons to fall into the hands of people who place no value on the life of a human?

    What I have is not a god complex, it is a realism complex, something which dreamers like yourself lack. I am the real dreamer here, because I envision where humanity will be millions and billions of years from now. Our progress will be stunted by people who cannot recognise what our best chances are at this moment in time. I applaud your good intentions, but you need to be practical. The fact that little girls are being killed in afghanistan simply because they believe in education for women should tell you how backwards nations like these are. And clearly the decent, upstanding muslim citizens don't have the will to stand up against this tyranny otherwise they would do so, therefore we are left with no choice but to take a harsh stance against this archaic way of life and make it very clear that we will not allow such people to pose a threat to our citizens and the people across the world we desire to protect from them.

    Power is power, and we have it in spades. How lucky for the world that the west is the most powerful civilisation. South America seemingly revolves around the drug trade, Africa contains countless nations caught up in individual wars led by psycopathic warlords, the middle east oppresses its women and enslaves itself to a religion, China still to this day suppresses its own citizens and Russia locks up pop singers in a siberian prison. My point is you don't realise how fucking lucky you are to be a part of the west, and yes everything could be so much better but we are dealing with humans and not fairies so it is time to get fucking real about this situation before we get so entranced in our fantasies that we end up falling behind.

    The west in its current state is only a stepping stone. The future of humanity has much more in store for it than this. But the west is necessary for the progression of mankind, it is a means to an end and not an end in itself and that is what I believe. I am not a patriot of the west. I am someone who sees the world for what it is, and sees the west as this world's best hope at this moment in time. I challenge you to give me a better example of a civilisation that stands for human rights and progression, then you can tell me the west isn't worth protecting vigourously.
    Yay you get the award for the most self righteous post of the year. Congratulation on your bullshit.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 11:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I know you and I have differing opinions on some politics, but what you wrote there I could not say better. Granted for me Swap the words "Liberal Idealism" with "Religious Conservatism".

    All of these problems we are seeing in Africa and the middle/Near East have to due with the Would moving towards a type 1 civilization. A world with one uniform government, economy, and has the Ability to colonize the solar system. Some estimate we will get there in 100 years, I am hoping for sooner. Sadly nations like Iran need to be addressed by the Global community. I am hoping for a peaceful resolution, although looking at human history I am sure it will be a big war with nukes.
    I really like it when people accuse Iran of being bad for peace and ignore the fact that they have NEVER engaged in a war of aggression since its creation and will probably never do.

  13. #333
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    You are living in well because your governments mass murdered/mass murdering brown/black people and used/using their natural as well as human resources. The very advancement of your "western civilization" is based on shit. You are sinked to shit up to your throat and now you are selling us fucking western moral and civilization?

    I agree with soulcrusher, you are an racist and you only see the realism from your point of view. Not because you don't want to. I totally believe you lack the perspective to understand realism. Read more, travel more and come back here.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 01:41 AM ----------



    West(USA) says hi about nukes.
    Oh please, don't try and attribute the success of the west to purely to the exploitation of other races. Look at you, you have no real argument against me, all you can do is call me a racist and tell me to travel more. Try providing a real argument and maybe I will take you seriously. If you remember, western civlisation abandoned any exploitation against races long ago. We do not currently wander the African wastes taking slaves and hoarding resources. On the contrary, immigrants arrive on our shores by the thousands every day and we accept them. The west is more tolerant than any other civilisation, do you deny this or do you want to keep living in the past and denying present reality?

    Let me tell you something, when you speak of our civilisation in inverted commas and say our success is based on shit, you are the racist. Of course, it is impossible to be racist against the west isn't it? Such hilarious double standards. The very idea of the west being a victim of prejudgement is ludicrous right? No, because your inability to provide anything but an insulting response with such presumptuousness self-assuredness is an example of what is wrong. You have no legitimate claim to speak about the west or me in such a way. What's more is, I don't care what you say about me, try contributing to the actual discussion instead of trying to discredit me.

    As for nukes that were used twice in WW2, if you don't see the irrelevance of that situation in regard to the current situation with the middle east you seriously need to stop using emotions to guide your arguments.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 11:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Yay you get the award for the most self righteous post of the year. Congratulation on your bullshit.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 11:47 PM ----------


    I really like it when people accuse Iran of being bad for peace and ignore the fact that they have NEVER engaged in a war of aggression since its creation and will probably never do.
    It appears that it is too much to ask these days for people to explain themselves. Apparently reasoning is not necessary to form an opinion anymore. I would be happy and most open to your objections if you were to actually spend the time and have the courtesy to explain them instead of flat out being insulting.

    What you need to realise is that I do not take my own thoughts for granted and that I am open to my mind being changed if a compelling argument is made. You won't get anywhere with a one line post branding me self-righteous, but if you were to actually explain yourself then I would listen to you and think about what you say carefully in the hopes of gaining greater insight. I only have the best interests of humanity over course of the future in mind, I don't care about winning arguments or being right. So please, provide some reasoning if you really believe I am wrong.
    Last edited by Tuvok; 2012-12-08 at 12:10 AM.
    "The truth, my goal."

  14. #334
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    I really like it when people accuse Iran of being bad for peace and ignore the fact that they have NEVER engaged in a war of aggression since its creation and will probably never do.

    I'll do this in bullet points.

    1. Regular executions of:
    -- Raped women
    -- people accused of being gay
    -- people who do not accept the shi'a version of Islam
    -- Political prisoners

    2. Sponsors the terrorists groups like Hezbollah.

    3. Iran has sponsored attacks in other Muslim countries such as Balochistan in Pakistan.

    4. The 1988 Iran massacre
    --They killed thousands of political prisoners
    --as many as 30,000 prisoners may have been executed

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    Oh please, don't try and attribute the success of the west to purely to the exploitation of other races. Look at you, you have no real argument against me, all you can do is call me a racist and tell me to travel more. Try providing a real argument and maybe I will take you seriously. If you remember, western civlisation abandoned any exploitation against races long ago. We do not currently wander the African wastes taking slaves and hoarding resources. On the contrary, immigrants arrive on our shores by the thousands every day and we accept them. The west is more tolerant than any other civilisation, do you deny this or do you want to keep living in the past and denying present reality?

    Let me tell you something, when you speak of our civilisation in inverted commas and say our success is based on shit, you are the racist. Of course, it is impossible to be racist against the west isn't it? Such hilarious double standards. The very idea of the west being a victim of prejudgement is ludicrous right? No, because your inability to provide anything but an insulting response with such presumptuousness self-assuredness is an example of what is wrong. You have no legitimate claim to speak about the west or me in such a way. What's more is, I don't care what you say about me, try contributing to the actual discussion instead of trying to discredit me.

    As for nukes that were used twice in WW2, if you don't see the irrelevance of that situation in regard to the current situation with the middle east you seriously need to stop using emotions to guide your arguments.
    The first part of my post is a good, if not best, counter argument to your utopic western civilization. I suggest you to read it again. You are not better than east, north whatever morally or any term. I do accept that not every part of the world is as educated as west(still ignorant rate is beyond imagination in your societies) but that's the difference of opportunity not some sort of unique skill of west.


    If you can't understand the relevancy of nukes, try harder. You will get it, I hope.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-12-08 at 12:18 AM.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Oh no, they found another one of our toy airplanes that they'll have no idea how to use or reproduce...

    The Chinese should buy it so they can pretend they know what to do with it!
    good job thinking you know better than the rest of the world. Just because people study in your country does not make your countrymen superior.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    4. The 1988 Iran massacre
    --They killed thousands of political prisoners
    --as many as 30,000 prisoners may have been executed
    Don't dive into history, west is major champion when it comes to "frag"

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Olo View Post
    The US has patrolled those waters (and the rest of the whole world) for years, in part, to keep shipping lanes open.
    yeah... right

    that is what they are for

  19. #339
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Don't dive into history, west is major champion when it comes to "frag"
    History? that was 24 years ago the people in power then are still in power. I was in high-school when it happened My then girlfriend had an uncle killed. So no it's not a dusty fact. I took it easy on Iran with my bullet points. Trust me unless you are Shi'a they want you to die.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    I really like it when people accuse Iran of being bad for peace and ignore the fact that they have NEVER engaged in a war of aggression since its creation and will probably never do.
    Greeks might disagree...guess it depends on where you draw the "creation line."

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