1. #1

    Help our rogue needs help on 10M Elegon (Normal)

    Well i have been brwosing a little around here but our rogue complains that his DPS is low becouse in the spark fase he just autoattacks the boss so he has all of his energy up for his spark.

    Now no-one is accusing him or something he just came to me for help is there any expierenced rogue out there that could provide me with tips i can give him ?

    here are his details: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...wirve/advanced (i know his cloak is unenchanted he got this one last night and i havnt hade the time to fix that yet).




    PS: If i made any grammar mistakes im sorry xD im not from a english speaking country

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    Not to sound tactless but just auto attacking sounds pretty dumb in general. Unless there's some kind of horrific problem with damage on sparks it should be fine to maintain SND and rup on elegon. In fact, I'd say keeping rupture one elegon is extremely important for assassination's energy regen. I don't play Mutilate main since I think it's about as fun as playing ball in a cup, but if he's having problems transitioning to adds i'd recommend maintaining rupture first and foremost, if it's absolutely impossible to do hold vanish to get Garrote on elegon, and always Envenom the second before adds spawn to reset SND and hopefully get more poison damage on the spark asap.

    If his dps is critically low, you could just leave him on boss... As a rogue I'm not a huge fan of target switching as our ramp time is pretty horrendous.
    Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    I'm no rogue expert but I did notice that he is under hit cap, not by much, and is reforging out of hit in several places in favor of mastery.
    Also, I'm of the understanding that 320 mastery > 80 agi 160 mastery > 160 agi in terms of gems. If that still holds true then there are a few spots where he could regem. Like the red slots could be 80 agi 160 mastery and the yellow could stay that or go 320 mastery.

    Also, he can do more than just auto attack. Pooling energy is fine but letting it stay capped is a dps loss no matter how you look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  4. #4
    Thanks for your comment ^^ (i can handle tactless )

    Anyway we can leave him on the boss for the big add but when the sparks start floating to their towers we need him to kill his spark and at the same time when he is already near the boarder reset his stacks.

    So your saying that Rupture increases energy regen thx 1 tip i will give him already =D (if he dosnt know that already i know i didnt :P )

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koneko View Post
    Thanks for your comment ^^ (i can handle tactless )

    Anyway we can leave him on the boss for the big add but when the sparks start floating to their towers we need him to kill his spark and at the same time when he is already near the boarder reset his stacks.

    So your saying that Rupture increases energy regen thx 1 tip i will give him already =D (if he dosnt know that already i know i didnt :P )
    He is playing assa, he should be very well aware by now that rupture is vital for energy regen.
    You might just mention that he can sneak in a mut or two while waiting for sparks, to at least keep rupture rolling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  6. #6
    And i will ask him about his reforging and hitcap 2 tips keep em coming lads

  7. #7
    Being slightly under hit cap is often how things spreadsheet out for us.(and is 100% acceptable) I will say the deadly momentum glyph helps a ton by keeping SnD up. Other than that you want to put at least 1 mutilates cp's into elegon (if < 5 seconds remain on previous application) prior to sparks popping. The rupture, as stated above, will provide the regen to pump cp+envenoms into the spark.(do not rupture the spark) Also, if the rupture will stay up, mut+env right before the spark is acceptable so you ahve the envenom buff on yourself for first attack on the spark. Hope that makes some kind of sense, it has never failed me.

    edit: this looks horrendous but i am unsure how to make it more easy to read haha, sorry!

  8. #8
    I can understand it dont worry ^^ thx for taking the time

  9. #9
    As a rogue myself i would get him to change enchant on his boots to 140 agility + minor runspeed, since the agility gain is way better than his haste enchant he currently has. other than that keep rupture on boss, but don't just stand there and auto attack and pool energy, i never had any problem killing the sparks as assassination.

    if you have some log that would help to see if he's doing something wrong.

  10. #10
    Hi,

    My name is Swirve and I apparantly have a problem. Since you guys are staging my intervention, I thought I'd drop by and chip in.

    In all seriousness, we were making good progress on Elegon yesterday and my DPS was keeping up with the rest up to the point of the stage with the sparks. The problem was me being scared of not having energy pooled when the sparks spawned and therefore DPS'ing. I didn't just autoattack, but only hit muti to not cap energy and that resulted in a late rupture. I then had enough energy to hit the spark with a two mutilate envenom, killing it halfway to the pillar.
    I have to be more familiar with the timing of the sparks (since DBM doesn't have a timer for sparks???) and take a bit more risk.
    We had a try where I was on Elegon for a 5 cp rupture and a 5cp redirect on a spark and then an envenom on the spark.
    Next time I will go the 5cp rupture envenom on elegon and then switch to the spark (backed up by our tank).

    To clear some other stuff up:
    - I am aware that rupture regens energy
    - I use askmrrobot for quick fixes to my gems/chants/reforging
    - Assassin might be as fun as playing ball in a cup,l but I like my poisons.

    All the help is really appreciated btw.
    Thanks

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Also, I'm of the understanding that 320 mastery > 80 agi 160 mastery > 160 agi in terms of gems. If that still holds true then there are a few spots where he could regem. Like the red slots could be 80 agi 160 mastery and the yellow could stay that or go 320 mastery.
    This part is wrong. Red sockets are 160 agility red gems, yellow sockets are 80 agility 160 mastery gems. That's how Combat gemming works (80agi 160haste gems in red, 320 haste in yellow), but not how Assassination gemming works.

    Honestly, it should be judged more on "He says he can't do it, so don't do it" than it should on whether or not he's doing something wrong.
    In my 10 man raid, we usually end up having one person free to help orbs; if you have that same situation in your raid, then having that free person focus on the Rogue's orb should work.

    EDIT: Keep Rupture up on the boss (ANY amount of combo points, since any level of Rupture will proc Venomous Wounds), and don't be afraid to Vanish as the orb spawns to get some combo points onto the orb. Only use Envenom on the add, and make sure you use Dispatch and Blindside procs on the add, since Dispatch is one of the strongest moves in an Assassination rogue's arsenal.
    Last edited by Carp The Fish; 2012-12-04 at 02:53 PM.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
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  12. #12
    Hey this is tips from my perspective.

    1) AskMrRobot is broke, and it has been for a long time. Please dont use it... ever. LOL Try using wowreforge.com. It works really well, and you can even set up the stat weights differently if you want to.
    2.) As far as I know, Rupture only regens energy when your target dies with rupture on it (relevant to the remaining time left on the dot) In my opinion, they die too fast to put up rupture when envenom is quicker dmg cause they need to die fast.

    To help with your dps on that fight in general, dump anticipation and pick up versatility because on that fight you have to switch targets so many times. When you're on the spark phase, you can still gather combo points, then switch to the spark, redirect and hit with a good envenom, it hits pretty hard, and it will help you burst it down faster. To help your healers, I'd pick up Elusiveness so when the adds start exploding you take so little dmg.

  13. #13
    Shadowcraft is up and working, honestly if your playing rogue and using anything but that your doing it wrong. As for gems, pure agils / agil+mast are best. 2x mastery is not outweighing 1x agil for ass.

    Ok for assassination, try to see if you can manage protectors without swapping. If you are swapping to protectors and chasing them out of the platform there is no way your going to even do semi decent dps. Melee should just tunnel boss. As for resetting stacks, rotate step/sprint to get back on boss ASAP. Try to wait until the add is just about casting his big hit before running out. I personally was watching the add until it was -10% and then running out to reset. As for p2 resetting try to reset on every orb you chase out.

    During the "phase 2" where the little orbs come out try to keep rupture up on elegon. Rupturing on the little adds is a complete waste. 1-2 mutis worth of CPs and envenom on the orbs seems to work fine to keep up SnD. Same thing as before for resetting stacks, rotate step/sprint to get back on boss ASAP. Do try to pool energy up prior to the orb coming out as thats the best burst your going to get. Try to have your mouse over the spot where your adds going to spawn to get maximum uptime. Also, start attack macros help here if you are low on energy and mashing muti. If you do have a few seconds before they come out and energy is getting high feel free to muti / envenom elegon since envenom is a BUFF and even if you target swap youll still get it's bonus. You should be fine without using any cooldowns on the orbs (vendetta/SB).

    Edit: after looking at shadowcraft your gems are fine, get a cloak enchant (180 hit) and run the reforger again. Seeing a little bit of an upgrade. As for gearing, your missing a good few pieces from daily VP grind. These pieces of gear go along way. (mast/hit helm + crit/mast belt + haste/hit gloves)

    Quote Originally Posted by Swirve View Post
    I didn't just autoattack, but only hit muti to not cap energy and that resulted in a late rupture. I then had enough energy to hit the spark with a two mutilate envenom, killing it halfway to the pillar.
    I have to be more familiar with the timing of the sparks (since DBM doesn't have a timer for sparks???) and take a bit more risk.
    We had a try where I was on Elegon for a 5 cp rupture and a 5cp redirect on a spark and then an envenom on the spark.
    Next time I will go the 5cp rupture envenom on elegon and then switch to the spark (backed up by our tank).
    5 cp finishers are too much on the little adds. Your essentially wasting envenom buff uptime. 3 globals and the things already halfway to the pillar. 1 muti envenom + another muti if need be for 3+. Use redirect on the 4th/5th if your having trouble there. Also vanish is a free muti. DBM doesnt show a spark timer but elegon has a specific cast for when the adds are coming out. Its to the tune of "powering down" and "powering up". (down is after adds die, up is before they come out)
    GL dood
    Last edited by rewynd; 2012-12-04 at 03:27 PM.

  14. #14
    Rupture gives energy through Venomous Wounds (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=79134/venomous-wounds) each time it ticks (well, it has a chance at each tick).

    I find it best to keep Rupture up on Elegon at all times (Vanish helps here) and SnD too, though building a 4 CP Rupture on the Sparks is much better than a straight Envenom: it adds to your energy regen, nearly fills your energy bar when the Spark dies, and allows you to go destack while watching your Spark die (from the various DoTs). Our raid (a bad one that is) has been struggling on Elegon (70+ tries for Normal 10-man) but I've been able to consistently do 5 to 6 sparks with only Rupture and discarding Envenom completely. Moreover, it frees up time to go DPS the boss and help with the Enrage timer.

    And as the others have said, Shadowcraft > Ask Mr. Robot.

  15. #15
    Looking at your char on shadowcraft there's not much you can do to improve gear wise, even a few reforges will only give about 200 dps, however at this moment for you 1 agi > 2 master, so might want to look into that.
    Death Knight-90 Druid-90 Hunter - 90 Mage - 90 Monk - 90 Paladin - 90 Priest - 90 Rogue - 90 Shaman - 90 Warrior - 90
    What doesn't kill me gives me vengeance.
    I am a dying breed - laying it all on the line.

    HC Burning Legion - 14/14H

  16. #16
    I use versatility on this fight being able to transfer combo points every orb is really nice. Won't have to worry about energy pooling as much.

  17. #17
    Why is everyone against rupturing the spark?
    I do it all the time.
    It gives alot of energy back.
    And pop Feint before all the sparks die to soak damage.

  18. #18
    (This is all from Heroic. No one was very geared for our Normal kill, so we used a weird strat. Should work for Normal just as well, though.)
    I keep Rupture rolling on Elegon as much as possible (at any CP) while still having a good amount of energy to blow on the Charge. This becomes harder later in the phase as Charges come faster. Any Blindside procs I get during this, I save for the Charge. Once the charge is out, I do a 2-3CP Env to get the Charge into execute range as soon as possible, then Dispatch a few times and it dies.

    I usually kill the charges before they're even close to the edge. This lets me just stay in for 2+ sets of Charges at a time with feint (glyphed; Elusiveness not necessary) to get better uptime on the boss. We do 5 Charges then 4, so it works like this:

    P2a:
    1. Kill first Charge, Sprint out to reset, ShS to boss
    2. Kill second Charge, get back on the boss (no reset)
    3. Feint as the third Charges come out, kill third Charge, reset stacks and ShS boss
    4. Kill fourth Charge, get back on the boss (no reset)
    5. Feint as the fifth Charges come out, kill fifth Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    6. Ignore sixth set and just focus boss, then Sprint out a few seconds after the Charges hit

    P2b:
    1. Kill first Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    2. Feint as second Charges come out, Kill second Charge, Sprint out to reset, ShS to boss
    3. Kill third Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    4. Feint as fourth Charges come out, Kill fourth Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    5. Ignore fifth set and just focus boss, then get out ASAP

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    (This is all from Heroic. No one was very geared for our Normal kill, so we used a weird strat. Should work for Normal just as well, though.)
    I keep Rupture rolling on Elegon as much as possible (at any CP) while still having a good amount of energy to blow on the Charge. This becomes harder later in the phase as Charges come faster. Any Blindside procs I get during this, I save for the Charge. Once the charge is out, I do a 2-3CP Env to get the Charge into execute range as soon as possible, then Dispatch a few times and it dies.

    I usually kill the charges before they're even close to the edge. This lets me just stay in for 2+ sets of Charges at a time with feint (glyphed; Elusiveness not necessary) to get better uptime on the boss. We do 5 Charges then 4, so it works like this:

    P2a:
    1. Kill first Charge, Sprint out to reset, ShS to boss
    2. Kill second Charge, get back on the boss (no reset)
    3. Feint as the third Charges come out, kill third Charge, reset stacks and ShS boss
    4. Kill fourth Charge, get back on the boss (no reset)
    5. Feint as the fifth Charges come out, kill fifth Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    6. Ignore sixth set and just focus boss, then Sprint out a few seconds after the Charges hit

    P2b:
    1. Kill first Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    2. Feint as second Charges come out, Kill second Charge, Sprint out to reset, ShS to boss
    3. Kill third Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    4. Feint as fourth Charges come out, Kill fourth Charge, get back on boss (no reset)
    5. Ignore fifth set and just focus boss, then get out ASAP
    This guy knows what he's talking about, I do something very similar (still working on heroic, but similar strats). Shadowstep will make you or break you on this part of this fight, depending on how well you use it.

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