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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I did quote you.

    You have to be one of the most self-deluded people I have ever seen post on a forum.
    Yeah. No you didn't.

    "I am unable to know what a quote is" - Cooper.

    See? Apparently, you said that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 02:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    No one is saying they aren't players. They aren't subscribers because they use a different payment model, PPH. Its like how we don't call F2Pers subscribers. Different payment model.
    This is what a quote from me looks like.

    See the >> symbol? That means you can go to my post.
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  2. #202
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I did quote you.

    You have to be one of the most self-deluded people I have ever seen post on a forum.
    You've gotta be one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen post on ....wait, 29 posts. Oh ok...it all makes sense now.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You've gotta be one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen post on ....wait, 29 posts. Oh ok...it all makes sense now.
    Yeah. Normally, I wouldn't bother with a nobody but he is putting quotes around made up shit and claiming I wrote it. Is that infractable? Seems like trolling.
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  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Yeah. Normally, I wouldn't bother with a nobody but he is putting quotes around made up shit and claiming I wrote it. Is that infractable? Seems like trolling.
    Except for the part where I very clearly quote you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    I don't know how they track "active" accounts or not, but you can't discount millions of people because, "They pay differently than we do and I don't know how it's all tracked."
    I have not done that.

    I am very clear that they are players. Not subscribers. Players.
    You have done that. You're doing it in this very quote. "I don't discount them, I just put them in a different category that doesn't count."

  5. #205
    Edgecrusher said "you can't discount millions of people because"
    To which I responded with "I have not done that. I am very clear that they are players. Not subscribers. Players."


    And you have rewritten it as "I don't discount them, I just put them in a different category that doesn't count."

    and THAT IS NOT A QUOTE.

    You added " I just put them in a different category that doesn't count" which I did not say.
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  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I did quote you.

    You have to be one of the most self-deluded people I have ever seen post on a forum.

    actually you just don't get it. so let's spell it out a little more

    FACT: SWTOR isn't available in China
    FACT: WoW is available in China

    Therefore WoW has access to a hgher subscriber base than SWTOR. Therefore, adding China's WoW population into the available player base to compare it to SWTOR is inaccurate.

    Can SWTOR negotiate with the Chinese government and make the game licensable and playable in a Chinese government. Can they? Yes they can. Have they? No they have not.

    Thus comparing WoW's 10,000,000 subscribers when the majority of those subscribers are in a place that is not at this point accessible to SWTOR is inaccurate. When/if SWTOR does become available in China, then I am all for that straight up comparison.

    And no, I'm also not discounting China's sub base because they pay differently. I'm discounting their sub base based on the FACT part I mentioned previously. If you don't get that part, we can't help you.

    However, you are still obviously clueless because at the start of this point of reference you pretty much called me a racist for making that statement. And as thus shows you really have zero comprehension of the actual facts in the argument.
    Last edited by anyaka21; 2012-12-08 at 03:03 AM.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Striph View Post
    One year later, still no Dual Spec, so my healing sorcerer is locked into raid mode because of the cost to respec to go damage is too prohibitive.
    Free respec as hk-51 mentioned and field respec perk. If THAT is your ONLY beef with SWTOR give it a go. Also a decently equiped damage or tank companion should give you a acceptable solo experience in any case.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    Can SWTOR negotiate with the Chinese government and make the game licensable and playable in a Chinese government. Can they? Yes they can. Have they? No they have not.

    Thus comparing WoW's 10,000,000 subscribers when the majority of those subscribers are in a place that is not at this point accessible to SWTOR is inaccurate.
    So you admit China is accessible to TOR and then later say it is not because of EA/BioWare's choices, and on that basis want to discount WoW's subscribers there. That EA has chosen not to release TOR there is not a logical reason to discount WoW's Chinese numbers. That population is available to BioWare and EA to exploit the same as it is to Blizzard.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    So you admit China is accessible to TOR and then later say it is not because of EA/BioWare's choices, and on that basis want to discount WoW's subscribers there. That EA has chosen not to release TOR there is not a logical reason to discount WoW's Chinese numbers. That population is available to BioWare and EA to exploit the same as it is to Blizzard.
    again, at this time, SWTOR is not available in China, can it be any clearer than that. Until the point that it is negotiated by EA/BW and the Chinese government, then it is not available in China. Really, its just that simple.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    So you admit China is accessible to TOR and then later say it is not because of EA/BioWare's choices, and on that basis want to discount WoW's subscribers there. That EA has chosen not to release TOR there is not a logical reason to discount WoW's Chinese numbers. That population is available to BioWare and EA to exploit the same as it is to Blizzard.
    He isn't discounting them. He is comparing subscriber to subscriber.
    If we were to compare player to player it would be different.
    Player being an umbrella term for people who count through multiple payment models.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 03:32 AM ----------

    The doesn't even matter or really up for debate.

    Swtor has 500k-1 million subscribers at last given figure
    WoW sold 10 million copies of Mist of Panderia.

    This means that wow has 10 to 20 times the number of players than Swtor.
    WoW has a player split of about 40/60 between west and east players, historically.
    So about 4 million subscribers and about 6 million PPH accounts.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-12-08 at 03:33 AM.
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  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    He isn't discounting them. He is comparing subscriber to subscriber.
    If we were to compare player to player it would be different.
    Player being an umbrella term for people who count through multiple payment models.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 03:32 AM ----------

    The doesn't even matter or really up for debate.

    Swtor has 500k-1 million subscribers at last given figure
    WoW sold 10 million copies of Mist of Panderia.

    This means that wow has 10 to 20 times the number of players than Swtor.
    WoW has a player split of about 40/60 between west and east players, historically.
    So about 4 million subscribers and about 6 million PPH accounts.
    Just a point of clarification, MoP has not sold 10mil copies. China players do not pay for expansions. They just pay by the minute/hour. Their agreement with the Chinese government allows this.

    Therefore, the basic conclusion is that since the NA/EU population has around 4mil, then that's roughly how many copies of MoP that have been sold.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    Just a point of clarification, MoP has not sold 10mil copies. China players do not pay for expansions. They just pay by the minute/hour. Their agreement with the Chinese government allows this.

    Therefore, the basic conclusion is that since the NA/EU population has around 4mil, then that's roughly how many copies of MoP that have been sold.
    True. I keep forgetting how good the options are over there. Its like, more flexible payment method AND they don't pay for expansions?
    I guess so long as you don't complain about the lack of human rights its pretty good. Kind of like America.

    Edit: That was a joke. Well, partly. We do have a bad tenancy to imprison civil dissidents.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-12-08 at 04:11 AM.
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  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    So you admit China is accessible to TOR and then later say it is not because of EA/BioWare's choices, and on that basis want to discount WoW's subscribers there. That EA has chosen not to release TOR there is not a logical reason to discount WoW's Chinese numbers. That population is available to BioWare and EA to exploit the same as it is to Blizzard.
    Actually, there is a reason to discount China's numbers. The money coming in from the average Chinese player is no more reliable than the money a F2P game's cash shop pulls in. Being that they can have an account, pick it up and put it down when they choose, and not have to pay the same amount nor be saddled with a monthly subscription means they aren't the same as a subscriber. That, in and of itself, discounts their participation in the program. At least monetarily.

  14. #214

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    If paying is the requirement than all preferred status players are subscribers because they paid 5 or more dollars.
    And if players pay once in league, would they then be subscribers?

    Because the PPH accounts could buy a 30 hour card and log in twice a year and be considered a "subscriber" under Coopers definition.
    Now that's a strawman if I ever saw one, that's not even remotely what he's saying and you know it. He literally states they pay to play, ergo they pay for game time, in order to keep playing you have to keep continue paying as game time expires. They pay less under a different model but that doesn't change the fact they pay to play just like any other player.

    Preferred status players are not under a P2P model at all. It's just another attempt to change goalposts when the attempt to spin SWTORs numbers to be comparable to WoW's didn't fly.

    Maybe it would be better if some people faced the reality that SWTOR has some real issues that made all those people leave, never come back and not be replaced by anyone, and that those issues should be addressed. Instead of labeling people bringing up a problem as haters, paid shills from other companies, whiners etc. and make up numbers and faulty comparisons to perpetuate the notion that SWTOR is fine and dandy.

    It's still the same game with mostly the same issues and some new, and therein the problem lies. I mean maybe the game should just get that damn ready check already which they said they'd do months ago instead of having people rabidly defend it by saying that they just tell everyone to say yes of they're there on vent (yes fucking really) or that they just jump and that's every bit as good and convenient if not better than a ready check.
    Last edited by Zokonorb; 2012-12-08 at 11:09 AM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    2 hide helms
    You have to buy the ability to hide your helm now??? LOL

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Sojou View Post
    You have to buy the ability to hide your helm now??? LOL
    Depends on how you define "buy".

    I didn't pay money for it.
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  18. #218
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Depends on how you define "buy".

    I didn't pay money for it.
    My definition of 'buy' for that feature is more akin to 'don't need'. Either way it's viable.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Maybe it would be better if some people faced the reality that SWTOR has some real issues that made all those people leave, never come back and not be replaced by anyone, and that those issues should be addressed. Instead of labeling people bringing up a problem as haters, paid shills from other companies, whiners etc. and make up numbers and faulty comparisons to perpetuate the notion that SWTOR is fine and dandy.
    Maybe we should then be asking the same question of WoW then. We should be asking why 30,000,000 people have left WoW and have never gone back.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    Maybe we should then be asking the same question of WoW then. We should be asking why 30,000,000 people have left WoW and have never gone back.
    Well, it would be closer to 40,000,00 people. A lot of people have tried wow over the past 7 years.
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