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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    And the community has been pretty clear from the start how they feel about the current space combat system. About 93% opposed it early on. Now I think just about everyone who was hoping for a JTL expansion announcement has quit/unsubbed.
    Yeah, it's not been the most popular feature. But they spent a lot of time on it, and completely re-doing it wasn't feasible at the time (and they weren't very good at listening to feedback during beta -_-). Not to mention that in the grand scheme of things, the space combat is lower on the priority list (though it would be amazing to see it).

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    I really feel its necessary to point out EXACTLY what I said.

    I did not say that every star wars game has to have freeform space combat. Just that when Star wars has had space combat, it has been free flight. Thus leading people to expect it to be free flight.

    Its like saying "You shouldn't expect a golf game to have a pitching wedge because they aren't in football. Not all sports games have pitching wedges."
    Understood.

    I really think they wanted to do space as a set-piece minigame. Just a background distraction to complement the ground game. What they did with the rail shooter is in some ways more complex and technically challenging than just drawing a big box, placing some props in it, calling it "space" and setting the player free in it to do... whatever he wants. I mean it sounds really simple doesn't it?

    But Bioware has (or had) a cinematic objective for the game that extended to everything, including this little, almost revolutionary minigame for its MMO. They wanted it to be like Han & Leia's escape from Hoth. That whole scene where they're dodging asteroids and TIE fighters. It's much harder to orchestrate that (and maintain suspension of disbelief) in a cinematic style if you don't have the player's position, velocity, and orientation locked down. I guess what I'm saying is, we got what we got because this is what they wanted to show us.
    ^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".

  3. #63
    Banned Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    And the community has been pretty clear from the start how they feel about the current space combat system. About 93% opposed it early on. Now I think just about everyone who was hoping for a JTL expansion announcement has quit/unsubbed.
    I now you are very passionate about this, but I think the majority of people who play this game don't even care about the space aspect. It's a sad thing to be sure, but I haven't met anyone other than you really who holds it so high and integral to the experience. I think that was mostly the feedback/research they had when creating the game initially...which is a good explanation as to why it kinda just dropped into what it is.

    Could they turn it into something magical that would be a selling point and get some new blood on board? Toooootally. Will they? It doesn't seem like it.

  4. #64
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    Don't get me wrong, I would kill for what they had in SWG:JTL.
    ^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".

  5. #65
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    Astonishingly, just as bad as it was a year ago. I know, I tried getting back to swtor and just banged my head into the same fucking problems. Bioware didn't learn jackshit.

  6. #66
    As to what they said, in a somewhat derogatory way, about "rpg players" being unable to cope with a three dimensional representation of space...
    If they had taken 5 minutes to look at what's around the market they would have noticed that 3rd person perspective space combat solves the issue of orientation.
    Privateer and Moonbreakers both use a mouse based, 3rd person perspective that gives that "omg flying through asteroids" feel while also giving players the rewarding feeling of having DONE the flying.
    I know I am a little too passionate about this but I feel this is one of those things they should have talked about openly first before setting themselves on the rails path. A 9 to 1 ratio against would have emerged in 2007 just as quickly as it did in 2011. Granted, that's a hypothetical, but we have no reason to conclude otherwise.
    And yes, I did know about the rails before I bought the game as I was a beta tester, however they said that this was just the first "iteration" of space and that they had huge plans and space was going to be a "big deal" and seemed to imply that their goal would be JTL eske. But all of that has turned out to be mainly PR spin.
    The date they have throw out for their "huge plan" is 2014 (ideally). Which is probably the year I might pay a subscription again. I find this baffling because around 2014 we will have star citizen. Swtor plans to compete for space sim fans, they do because they are sinking 2+ years of development into the SSSP, against star citizen under very similar time tables.
    This might sound a little cynical but I think EA might be funding the SSSP just to see if they can outshine star citizen because pat robertson turned down EA.
    People talk about the end game or repetitive planet quest being a swtor "killer" but I really think that its because it lacks a niche that builds off the IP and sets it apart from its competition, namely space combat.
    But I digress.

    Ugh. That's all I feel now. Ugh.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    People talk about the end game or repetitive planet quest being a swtor "killer" but I really think that its because it lacks a niche that builds off the IP and sets it apart from its competition, namely space combat.
    But I digress.
    I think you meant to say 'namely, everything extra that isn't questing'. And you are right. Since we've already had this sad, sad convo before.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    This might sound a little cynical but I think EA might be funding the SSSP just to see if they can outshine star citizen because pat robertson turned down EA.
    Erm, they turned down a game like Star Citizen because they don't think there's a market for it. And until it made got 6 million+ in Kickstarter funding, there was no hard evidence that suggested otherwise (that I know of).

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Erm, they turned down a game like Star Citizen because they don't think there's a market for it. And until it made got 6 million+ in Kickstarter funding, there was no hard evidence that suggested otherwise (that I know of).
    Well, I don't ACTUALLY think they would invest 2 years of development time into swtor space to spite some guy.
    But it would be funny and very EA.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Erm, they turned down a game like Star Citizen because they don't think there's a market for it. And until it made got 6 million+ in Kickstarter funding, there was no hard evidence that suggested otherwise (that I know of).
    Man I would so play Eve if it wasn't so fucking complicated and newb unfriendly, not to mention boring with all that huge amount of travelling and grinding.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I now you are very passionate about this, but I think the majority of people who play this game don't even care about the space aspect. It's a sad thing to be sure, but I haven't met anyone other than you really who holds it so high and integral to the experience. I think that was mostly the feedback/research they had when creating the game initially...which is a good explanation as to why it kinda just dropped into what it is.

    Could they turn it into something magical that would be a selling point and get some new blood on board? Toooootally. Will they? It doesn't seem like it.
    People don't care about it because it sucks. Also, the idea that it's revolutionary is laughable. There have been plenty of on-rails shooters in the past, including Rebel Assaults I and II. And considering JTL was the most popular part of Galaxies from pretty much the time it launched, plus the popularity of the X-Wing/TiE Fighter series, plus the expectation that a Star Wars MMO includes worthwhile space (even Cryptic understood that Star Trek requires both planet-based and space-based components; it's the same with Star Wars), the idea that BioWare's research said nobody cares about space isn't very believable.

    No, it's more likely just more BioWare hubris - that they thought their stories are so awe-inspiring that nobody could possibly want anything else.

    Having no space component worth mentioning makes the smuggler class completely pointless. What is a smuggler what doesn't smuggle? All they can do is go around fulfilling the WoW-based rogue archetype. They shouldn't even be called smugglers.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    I did not say that every star wars game has to have freeform space combat. Just that when Star wars has had space combat, it has been free flight. Thus leading people to expect it to be free flight.
    Rebel Assault would like to have a word with you ;-)

    Sure, I would have prefered freeform space combat, too, but I never really expected it. SWG didn't start out with space combat either and neither did Kotor (which is probably the closest to SWTOR that we can get as far was previous games are concerned.)

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Azhreia View Post
    SWG didn't start out with space combat either
    Not entirely true. Galaxies was planned to have 3D space from the beginning, then that part was split off not all that long before release so it could be issued as an expansion. But everybody who was following the game knew prior to launch that a 3D spaceflight component was going to be included at some point.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    It's true.
    Well, I guess I'll start with thanking Kitty for making me look like a jackass. I found it amusing that I can make enemies by trying to pay a compliment to someone. I guess that's how it goes when one opinion is different from another. It's not anything I'm going to lose sleep over, though.

    When I read your posts, hk-51, I do see the critiques you have for the game. Most are justifiable. I know how you, Kitty, and most other people on this forum feels about the game. I do read most every thread here. But I also see you being one of the few people trying to help people realize that it's not as bad as most people make it out to be. THAT is what I was talking about. THAT is what I meant about fighting the good fight.
    A true Patriot fights for their country, not for their government.

  15. #75
    There are obvious flaws with the game, but they're either being looked into or already having attention paid towards it. Its not like Bioware says "oh well" and ignores what is wrong. I see them working to improve the game and taking in feedback. That is why I play this game. The Developer->Community communication is outstanding. People can argue that but we never get the term "Soon" thrown at us from every direction. If they can't answer it for obvious reasons- then they state they can't address our issue for now, etc.

    Again, there are glaring issues with the game but the game can be fun if you go in already knowing a brand new MMO will have kinks. Its not even a year old yet... yes a year is still young for an MMO.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    Well, I guess I'll start with thanking Kitty for making me look like a jackass. I found it amusing that I can make enemies by trying to pay a compliment to someone. I guess that's how it goes when one opinion is different from another. It's not anything I'm going to lose sleep over, though.

    When I read your posts, hk-51, I do see the critiques you have for the game. Most are justifiable. I know how you, Kitty, and most other people on this forum feels about the game. I do read most every thread here. But I also see you being one of the few people trying to help people realize that it's not as bad as most people make it out to be. THAT is what I was talking about. THAT is what I meant about fighting the good fight.
    No one is enemies in these parts. :P I appreciate it. Its better than being called a "game bashing hater" or "bioware fan boy".

    (And depending on the day of the week I get called a different one)
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  17. #77
    Banned Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    Well, I guess I'll start with thanking Kitty for making me look like a jackass. I found it amusing that I can make enemies by trying to pay a compliment to someone. I guess that's how it goes when one opinion is different from another. It's not anything I'm going to lose sleep over, though.

    When I read your posts, hk-51, I do see the critiques you have for the game. Most are justifiable. I know how you, Kitty, and most other people on this forum feels about the game. I do read most every thread here. But I also see you being one of the few people trying to help people realize that it's not as bad as most people make it out to be. THAT is what I was talking about. THAT is what I meant about fighting the good fight.
    No one was hating on you, your tone came across very normal compared to most things here. Just lately he's been getting crap from drivebys about being an EA fan boy and I wanted to make sure that didn't start in this thread too. No enemies were made in the process of your compliment. Compliment away.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    There are obvious flaws with the game, but they're either being looked into or already having attention paid towards it. Its not like Bioware says "oh well" and ignores what is wrong. I see them working to improve the game and taking in feedback. That is why I play this game. The Developer->Community communication is outstanding. People can argue that but we never get the term "Soon" thrown at us from every direction. If they can't answer it for obvious reasons- then they state they can't address our issue for now, etc.

    Again, there are glaring issues with the game but the game can be fun if you go in already knowing a brand new MMO will have kinks. Its not even a year old yet... yes a year is still young for an MMO.
    Agreed.

    Except when it comes to communication about space.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    No one is enemies in these parts. :P I appreciate it. Its better than being called a "game bashing hater" or "bioware fan boy".

    (And depending on the day of the week I get called a different one)
    stop posting the stuff I post when I post the stuff that I post that you post.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    stop posting the stuff I post when I post the stuff that I post that you post.
    It's like us posting here so much has made us vulcan mind meld or something.
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