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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    Maybe we should then be asking the same question of WoW then. We should be asking why 30,000,000 people have left WoW and have never gone back.
    Irrelevant, because while people have quite WoW, more have replaced them proving it's very capable of attracting and holding large numbers of players. SWTOR, not so much people left and there wasn't really anyone to replace them. Again with attempting to move to goalpost in order to avoid the uncomfortable truth that SWTOR has real issues that drove people away that never got fixed.

    Btw, are we still pretending next to constant growth of playerbase for over half a decade is comparable to a playerbase shrinking to a fraction of its original size in 6 months being "synonymous numbers"?
    Last edited by Zokonorb; 2012-12-08 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Irrelevant, because while people have quite WoW, more have replaced them. SWTORs leavers, not so much. Again with attempting to move to goalpost in order to avoid the uncomfortable truth that SWTOR has real issues that drove people away that never got fixed.
    I don't recall anyone disputing that.

    However, a more accurate statement is that 10 to 20 times more people have tried WoW and thus the 80% retention rate that WoW and swtor share still results in WoW having 10 to 20 times more players than swtor.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 07:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Btw, are we still pretending next to constant growth of playerbase for over half a decade is comparable to a playerbase shrinking to a fraction of its original size being "synonymous numbers"?
    Growth isn't the same thing as retention rate.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Zephyr - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dakra Prime -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Rhino- Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    the 80% retention rate that WoW and swtor share
    According to your make belief methodology with differ from game to game in order to get numbers that suit your agenda, "Oh herrow these numbers are the same as wow's according to these two different methods, SWTOR must be doing great, and lets ignore any other factor but these two numbers that we got using two different methods".

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Growth isn't the same thing as retention rate.
    And neither of those things is not something SWTOR has.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    According to your make belief methodology with differ from game to game in order to get numbers that suit your agenda, "Oh herrow these numbers are the same as wow's according to these two different methods, SWTOR must be doing great, and lets ignore any other factor but these two numbers that we got using two different methods".



    And neither of those things is not something SWTOR has.
    make believe I assume? And "herrow"? Is that like racist against chinese for "hello"? I don't even. Where did I give you the idea that I am chinese?

    Also, no one has made the claim that "swtor must be doing great".
    Its like you are arguing against posts that don't exists.

    Lets backtrack
    Originally that other guy points out: The retention rate of the two games is similar, and similar to other MMOs.
    You claim that that is impossible.
    I point out that it is possible because 10 to 20 times more people have tried WoW out than swtor.
    To which you responded with claims that I am saying that swtor is doing great. Which I have not.

    And its not "two different methods" it is simply this.

    Half a billion people have tried WoW at some point over the past 7 years. 10 million have stayed.
    2.4 million people have tried Swtor at some point over the past year. 500k to 1 million have stayed.

    These are not value statements. Do not attempt to attribute my personal feelings to them in an effort to deny their existence. What is up with people trying to make up quotes these days?
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Zephyr - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dakra Prime -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Rhino- Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Depends on how you define "buy".

    I didn't pay money for it.
    Stop arguing semantics. You have to buy it. Someone has to pay money for it, and if it's not you, you purchased it through a significant time investment in the game.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    make believe I assume? And "herrow"? Is that like racist against chinese for "hello"? I don't even. Where did I give you the idea that I am chinese?

    Also, no one has made the claim that "swtor must be doing great".
    Its like you are arguing against posts that don't exists.
    Yeah people just went out their way with faulty methodology to claim SWTOR has WoW's retention rate for kicks and giggles, the very point of that was to spin numbers into showing SWTOR is a better light.

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    And its not "two different methods" it is simply this.
    Using a certain number for one game and another number for the other, is nothing but two different methods. If we were to apply the WoW method to SWTOR the numbers for SWTOR would no doubt be worse, but that wouldn't fit the spin he was trying to put off.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Using a certain number for one game and another number for the other, is nothing but two different methods. If we were to apply the WoW method to SWTOR the numbers for SWTOR would no doubt be worse, but that wouldn't fit the spin he was trying to put off.
    But that's not what I am doing. I am comparing swtor subscribers to wow players. If anything I am ignoring swtor f2p players so I am making swtor look worse.

    I am simply explaining to you how WoW can have 10 million players with a low retention rate.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 09:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Stop arguing semantics.
    It's kind of my thing but I shall lay off it for a bit.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Zephyr - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dakra Prime -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Rhino- Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Irrelevant, because while people have quite WoW, more have replaced them proving it's very capable of attracting and holding large numbers of players. SWTOR, not so much people left and there wasn't really anyone to replace them. Again with attempting to move to goalpost in order to avoid the uncomfortable truth that SWTOR has real issues that drove people away that never got fixed.

    Btw, are we still pretending next to constant growth of playerbase for over half a decade is comparable to a playerbase shrinking to a fraction of its original size in 6 months being "synonymous numbers"?
    The fact of the matter is actually that one has to wonder if so many people have tried WoW, why have they not stuck with it. Because, as you have claimed, they have easily replaced those which they have lost. However, they still have only 4mil NA/EU subs, 6mil Chinese subs, though probably less at this point since MoP has been out for a while and people are realizing it really is the same as it has always been. If so many people have tried WoW and it's so great, why doesn't it have 20mil subs or even 30mil subs?

    It's retention rate. It's the same thing across the board with any MMO. WoW just has a higher number of players, and over half of which are inaccessible to any other mmo.

    No one is disputing that WoW is king. No one is disputing that WoW has more subs than anyone else. No on is disputing that WoW is the most popular MMO on the planet and that it makes the most money. No one is disputing that SWTOR isn't perfect. No one is disputing that SWTOR could have been better. No one is disputing that WoW is a better MMO.

    What we've constitently argued, and what you keep disputing is the retention rate. You've said that if SWTOR was better, their retention rate would be better, even though it has the same retention rate that every mmo in existence has. That is where we disagree.
    Last edited by anyaka21; 2012-12-08 at 11:21 PM.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    You've said that if SWTOR was better, their retention rate would be better, even though it has the same retention rate that every mmo in existence has. That is where we disagree.
    Except you use different methods to come to that conclusion as it fits your agenda, and you also choose to ignore the fact SWTOR is unable to attract players, which also fits your agenda, you also chose to ignore they also lost their players with no one to replace them within the course of half a year, which again you do because it fits your agenda of trying to spin SWTORs state into better than it is.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    Maybe we should then be asking the same question of WoW then. We should be asking why 30,000,000 people have left WoW and have never gone back.
    That's not what that number means. At all.

    It's obviously pointless to explain it to you (yet again) because you have no absolutely no interest in being objective, but for the audience the forty million number is the number of accounts that have ever paid for game time in World of Warcraft. Currently, of those forty million, about ten million have their account active at any given time. That does not mean that only the same ten million people have ever kept their accounts going since launch; some leave and then come back later, but are replaced by another account during the interim, as players cycle in and out of actively playing.

    That is not at all the same metric as taking peak active subscribers and comparing it to current active subscribers. To do that would require using the twelve million peak number and comparing it to the current ten million number, giving a retention rate of 83%. That would be comparing apples to apples. Or one could compare TOR's total number of historical subscribed accounts to the current subscription base, which would be using the same methodology as using WoW's total historical subscribers, but that number may not be available.

    What one cannot do, however, with any sort of intellectual honesty or validity is compare WoW current subscribers/total historical subscribers against TOR current subscribers/peak subscribers.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 12:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    It's retention rate. It's the same thing across the board with any MMO. WoW just has a higher number of players, and over half of which are inaccessible to any other mmo.
    Oh, by the by, this is just a flat out lie. Just off the top of my head, Rift is available in China, and Guild Wars 2 signed a deal for the Chinese market in August.
    Last edited by Cooper; 2012-12-08 at 11:56 PM.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    WoW just has a higher number of players, and over half of which are inaccessible to any other mmo.
    How are chinese players inaccessible to other MMO's? That's a rethorical question by the way, because they obviously aren't. They are only inaccessible by choice of the people behind the game. And even if it was available in chine its problems would still linger.

  12. #232
    500,000 / 2,500,000 = 20%
    10,000,000 / 50,000,000 = 20%

    20% retention rate for both games.

    Its not a different method.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Zephyr - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dakra Prime -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Rhino- Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  13. #233
    It's kind of noticable that one of the major strategy for WoW to retain their playerbase is to translate the game into more and more languages. It was funny in Cata ... well the game sucx, but at least we will release it in portugeese or italian or whatever language ... playerbase loss mitigated. Also asians seem to be pretty bad at english. So it's pointless to compare playerbase of MMO with 25 language versions to MMOs with 2-3-4 language versions. It only makes sense to compare the playerbases in comparable markets like WoW EU vs TOR EU etc.

    Regardless after certain playerbase treshold the game does not benefit from more players, because all the extra cash just gets written off as profit. It's all about getting to the treshold. If WoW had 1000000000 players it would be the same game .... just the profit would go from 80% to 99%. Same goes for TOR. As long as BW makes decent bucks and keeps working on the game, it's all peachy. Now the question is do they

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  14. #234
    I did take a break after deciding to play the full halo games some months ago. Game is better now, lots of legacy perks and lfg thing. Played pandamon for like a month (a nice friend gave me a copy) and quit again. SWTOR is still better overall. Worth trying it again, even if just as a F2P to see the stories, they are amazing (specially compared to wow that has no story...)
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post

    Half a billion people have tried WoW at some point over the past 7 years. 10 million have stayed.
    2.4 million people have tried Swtor at some point over the past year. 500k to 1 million have stayed.
    Completely off-topic but did a billion get reclassified as 100 million now ?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Tannaya View Post
    Completely off-topic but did a billion get reclassified as 100 million now ?
    late night writing between swtor loading screens is known to cause typos.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Zephyr - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dakra Prime -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Rhino- Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  17. #237
    i quit a while ago because I did not want to pay for garbage, now they add F2P, which isn't F2P, you still gotta pay for garbage

  18. #238
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    So it has come to a point where I would kindly ask a moderator to lock this thread as it only serves as a vehicle to bash SWTOR and World of Warcraft. I like both games, so this thread has really turned to utter shit and there's no point in keeping it running.

    We have numerous threads detailing the state of the game, we don't really need a soapbox for the peanut gallery to hurl rotten fruit with their words.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    500,000 / 2,500,000 = 20%
    10,000,000 / 50,000,000 = 20%

    20% retention rate for both games.

    Its not a different method.
    Choosing numbers that represent different things isn't different methodology? It could very well be a textbook example of different methodology. You could desperately do with some higher learning if you think that isn't using a different method.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    Choosing numbers that represent different things isn't different methodology? It could very well be a textbook example of different methodology. You could use some higher learning.
    current subscriber of swtor / the number of people who have played swtor
    current players of wow / the number of people who have played wow
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-12-09 at 01:56 PM.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Zephyr - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dakra Prime -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Rhino- Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

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