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  1. #21
    I'm not sure I agree on the value of the Glyph of Loose Mana. When 6-camping and specifically after having blown cooldowns, the mana gem provides a safety net if you go without an AM proc for awhile. So in a situation where you blow cooldowns, use your AM procs and then have to use 4-5 ABs in a row because of no procs, then the mana gem gets you instantly back up to 100% or close to it. If you do have the glyph, you are still below 80% and still have to weave in some Scorchs to get your mana back up (while your cooldowns may still be running).

    If AM procs were more predictable, then the glyph would allow for a more proactive gem use. But that's not the case right now.

  2. #22
    6-charge camping feels really good. You keep your mana high and you never have to worry about how many stacks you have.
    I haven't gotten the start of the fight down yet. I think I've been ABing to about 4 then I start scorch weaving.
    I literally alternate scorch and AB, and then AM on every proc. I never ABarr except to finish an Alter Time rotation.

    If you're interested, here are my guild's logs from last night. (The first fight got split from the rest some how.)
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/p80zy5axg2hbk1gn/
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-m51cd4zzjvo3fh9g/

    Only 3 of the fights were done on Heroic, thus, none of these ranks are that exciting. People like to ask for logs though, so, just in case.

  3. #23
    Arcane explosion while moving. Glyph it

  4. #24
    why would you go for haste when you benefit from the mastery at all times?
    you have no upbuilding time which would be reduced by haste.

    care to explain your thoughts behind that?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by arynzerr View Post
    why would you go for haste when you benefit from the mastery at all times?
    you have no upbuilding time which would be reduced by haste.

    care to explain your thoughts behind that?
    If you loose stacks, its way faster to get em back, your mana regen is increased, so everytime you get AM and cast bomb or scorch, you regen more mana than with mastery gear, You can drop mana lower with less impact to dps, cause your mastery is far less

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    If you loose stacks, its way faster to get em back.
    so haste is better for the failers?
    hm ok i get what you're saying...think i'm gonna reforge to haste anyways as it's frost/arcane - viable.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by arynzerr View Post
    so haste is better for the failers?
    hm ok i get what you're saying...think i'm gonna reforge to haste anyways as it's frost/arcane - viable.
    well its also more dps when camping 6 stacks

  8. #28
    As a main frost (trying to switch) how much worse is crit than mastery if I'm still haste stacking?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by razzan View Post
    As a main frost (trying to switch) how much worse is crit than mastery if I'm still haste stacking?
    its a fair bit less powerful, but lets say if you gain 1k stats of crit and loose 1k mastery, its prolly under 1k dps difference

  10. #30
    My question is that, would 6 charge camping still be a dps gain if there were adds along with the boss for the cleave dmg barrage does?

    Single target it seems consensus is to camp, but when you have 2 mobs or 3, I'm not so certain.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Hankscorpio View Post
    My question is that, would 6 charge camping still be a dps gain if there were adds along with the boss for the cleave dmg barrage does?

    Single target it seems consensus is to camp, but when you have 2 mobs or 3, I'm not so certain.
    You still stay at 6 stacks, barrage isn't worth it vs re-building the stacks.

  12. #32
    So this thread has been an eye-opener for me! I actually have been just rebuilding stacks, and having success! But i want to maximize as best as possible.

    SO if i am understanding this correctly, first things first is to reforge/regem to full haste, as if i was gearing for frost.

    and now my goal is to get to 4 stacks of charges > then i am just spamming scorch and using AM when the proc occurs? And how often am i throwing another AB in? Just 1 to keep me under 100% mana? and Refreshing NT when needed? And thats netting my the highest DPS i can achieve?

    yeah this was a big shock to hear, let me know if i am understanding that correctly ^^

    Thanks guys!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by vynka View Post
    At least in LFR, I managed to mantain 6stack by pre-casting 2 Runes in a row and just letting me go each time I had an AM proc, while hovering over the 2 runes spamming scorch. Dunno if in NM you can cast while letting he drag you.

    Also noted that Glyph of Loose Mana lets you cast 2-3 consecutive Blasts.
    On LFR, you can park your ass and RoP against one of the side pillars during Get Away and keep casting like normal.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  14. #34
    With 6 charge camping what armour is best?

    frost for the extra haste?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktec View Post
    With 6 charge camping what armour is best?

    frost for the extra haste?
    Frost if you're going the haste build route. Mage armor if mastery.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TheoriesLA View Post
    Frost if you're going the haste build route. Mage armor if mastery.
    Going to have to disagree with you here, frost armor gives 7% (multiplicative) while mage armor gives 3000 mastery (10% flat)

    While you may be thinking to yourself that 10% is better than 7% it really isn't since mage armor gives just a flat increase while frost armor stacks multiplicatively, giving you more stats than you would get normally from a flat boost.
    Since haste and mastery are so close in value (regardless of what build you use) and the haste bonus from frost armor will likely put you over the 15 tick breakpoint for nether tempest, always use frost armor, the exception being later in the expansion when GCD capping during lust becomes an issue, at which point you would use mage armor

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    Going to have to disagree with you here, frost armor gives 7% (multiplicative) while mage armor gives 3000 mastery (10% flat)

    While you may be thinking to yourself that 10% is better than 7% it really isn't since mage armor gives just a flat increase while frost armor stacks multiplicatively, giving you more stats than you would get normally from a flat boost.
    Since haste and mastery are so close in value (regardless of what build you use) and the haste bonus from frost armor will likely put you over the 15 tick breakpoint for nether tempest, always use frost armor, the exception being later in the expansion when GCD capping during lust becomes an issue, at which point you would use mage armor
    Hmm this is a very good point. I'll try out frost armor in full mastery build this week and see how it stands. All the top parsing mages at the moment are using mage armor still which is the reason I based my conclusion in my previous post.
    Last edited by TheoriesLA; 2012-12-15 at 04:56 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    Going to have to disagree with you here, frost armor gives 7% (multiplicative) while mage armor gives 3000 mastery (10% flat)

    While you may be thinking to yourself that 10% is better than 7% it really isn't since mage armor gives just a flat increase while frost armor stacks multiplicatively, giving you more stats than you would get normally from a flat boost.
    Since haste and mastery are so close in value (regardless of what build you use) and the haste bonus from frost armor will likely put you over the 15 tick breakpoint for nether tempest, always use frost armor, the exception being later in the expansion when GCD capping during lust becomes an issue, at which point you would use mage armor
    I'm gonna stick with mage armor. EVERY single top parse I see for Arcane mages on WoL have them using Mage Armor.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggimannd View Post
    I'm gonna stick with mage armor. EVERY single top parse I see for Arcane mages on WoL have them using Mage Armor.
    I would venture a guess they do it cause they will get haste capped if they would use Frost armor..

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggimannd View Post
    I'm gonna stick with mage armor. EVERY single top parse I see for Arcane mages on WoL have them using Mage Armor.
    Blindly following the best in the world doesn't always yield the expected results, the reason these guys have top parses is because 1) they are amazing players no doubt and 2) they are geared to the tits, you have to adjust what you do to your own specific gear and situation, for me personally I am not reaching 15 ticks of nether tempest without frost armor and I know for a fact that the extra tick is a dps boost. Do what fits YOUR playstyle/gear, not what guys in 500+ ilvl are doing.

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