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  1. #21
    i seriously respect your commitment as a reaidlead, but in case it's a not a group of rl-friends or something similar i would never dedicate that much effort to fixing somebody else's dmg.

    as harsh at it sounds, but those guys who pull of like 60k dps won't get much better even if you tell them how to play.

    maybe you should think about getting new members for your group if your situation doesn't change.

  2. #22
    High Overlord Alwayshealing's Avatar
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    Thanks Subanark I will tell relay this to the group. We have been doing the stand on the edge and hop once for ranged thing but not for pylons so thats very helpful.

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwayshealing View Post
    Everyone in our raid group is a min iLv of 481 that I know of. I am wondering what else I could do as the Raid lead to assist them. Again I thank you all for taking time to look over this and give advice, thank you!
    Everyone in your group is ilvl 481 and your mage, rogue and shaman doing under 60k dps???????

    Are they always inside the sphere area for the buff?
    Are they resetting every 6 stacks?
    With ilvl 481 why can they NOT kill more than 3 orbs? I could kill 4-5 orbs when I was still in blues (Elemental Shaman)
    How many waves of big add you get in the second phrase 2 before you push him into second orb phrase?
    How many (and who) dps the big add?
    Is anyone dead during any period of time in the raid?
    What dps do your rogue, mage and shaman pull on boss like Feng?

    Past ilvl 475 you should be aiming for around 90k dps, under 60k with ilvl 481 is really not acceptable.

  4. #24
    Can add couple things but mostly what others have said above is correct. Main issue is your 3 DPS below your blood DK. If they are 480+ geared then its a case of going to EJ having a read and send them to a target dummy. Would recommend your mage goes fire over arcane as well.

    Simple things such as keeping dots up on boss as you kill protectors and sparks.

    Are you using Stormlash totem at the start or on a wave of adds? Would recommend wave 3/4 to get that extra 5% damage buff on the boss, If you can get 5 stacks on the first set its considerably less time to 50% and the next set of adds.

    For the pull all your ranged and healer can position themselves on the very edge of the vortex so that when they jump they lose stacks meaning rtanged and healer never have to move in p1. Its hard to find the spot after the first set of adds easily doable pre pull tho.

    Try and make sure the protectors are taken to melee before taken out so melee can cleave and also have melee switch back onto the boss at like 30% of protector unless they are running out to reset stacks. For 10man normal this is a bit of a gear check so you need to make sure you are doing everything to get extra numbers.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Shroomkinsux View Post
    Would recommend your mage goes fire over arcane as well.
    i strongly suggest to read up on some patch notes bro

  6. #26
    High Overlord Alwayshealing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    Everyone in your group is ilvl 481 and your mage, rogue and shaman doing under 60k dps???????

    Are they always inside the sphere area for the buff?
    Are they resetting every 6 stacks?
    With ilvl 481 why can they NOT kill more than 3 orbs? I could kill 4-5 orbs when I was still in blues (Elemental Shaman)
    How many waves of big add you get in the second phrase 2 before you push him into second orb phrase?
    How many (and who) dps the big add?
    Is anyone dead during any period of time in the raid?
    What dps do your rogue, mage and shaman pull on boss like Feng?

    Past ilvl 475 you should be aiming for around 90k dps, under 60k with ilvl 481 is really not acceptable.
    ~They are always inside til 6 then they do a hop to drop the stacks.
    ~Yes.
    ~They are getting 3 its the 4th I believe we are struggling on.
    ~All Ranged & Melee are on the add.
    ~Usually there are 0 dead, sometimes someone does die during spark phase though because they try and drop stacks on the opposite side of the heals.
    ~ http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...d/?s=136&e=487 That was our Feng kill this week.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 11:32 AM ----------

    Yes Shroom & Arynzerr I personally requested she go Arcane for Elegon after I saw the patch notes nerf to fire. I thought with the burst it would be better and there was an increase in her Dps after the switch, was that the wrong call to make?

  7. #27
    I'd honestly say that it's your dps. Swap them out for the fight or replace imo. As for sparks, Kill 5 and burn boss for 6th set, Can't really go wrong with that.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Markle View Post
    3 of your dps appear to be out dps'd by your blood DK tank. I can see why you are having issues. Not sure what you gear situations are like but the mage, shaman and rogue need to step it up for sure
    this all over. those 3 were inconsistent and low dps....i certainly hope the pug was one of them (i didnt check too in depth)
    Originally Posted by statlerthegreat
    I don't play a real world simulator. I play World of Warcraft. Where I am a Goblin, named after an explosive, that hurls balls of arcane "fuck you up" at internet dragons/ogres/whateverthehellmaloriakis.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Alwayshealing View Post
    was that the wrong call to make?
    no it was a good idea in general, but if your mage can't play the spec, better let him stick to the spec he is familiar with.

  10. #30
    High Overlord Alwayshealing's Avatar
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    No our pug was a Hunter I believe top or 2nd highest dps?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Desminn View Post
    this all over. those 3 were inconsistent and low dps....i certainly hope the pug was one of them (i didnt check too in depth)
    I am almost always nr1. on DPS on Elegon with 120k-ish on my DK. Don't count tanks in your assesments of DPS. Never do that. Vengeance is way too "RNG" of a factor.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Oh and I notice the Shaman is also Elemental, FUN!!!!!

    How the hell can he NOT break 4 orbs? I would expect him to break 6 in ilvl 478 gear (yes I am checking him out on armoury now).

    Flame Shock > Lava Burst > Elemental Blast should pretty much killed it if any of those over loaded, if not, an extra Lightning Bolt would finish it off, this is extremely easy to pull off for the first 4-5 orbs. Very doable for 6th orb too, but, if your Shaman really having issue with the 5th and 6th somehow, tell him to burn Elemental Mastery on the 5th orb. And yes it will be up if he used it at the beginning of the fight with Ascendance, I used to have to burn EM to down the 5th and 6th orb when my gear was blue, in his current gear, he shouldn't really need it but the option is there.

    Ah that reminds me of one of his problem. He chose Ehco!!!!! Tell him to take EM for now, at the moment EM is way better than Echo, although as the expansion goes on, with more and more haste gear out there, eventually EM will start to lose it's appeal, but for now, EM is strong, very strong, especially when you burn it with Ascendance. And in this case, there is your 5th and 6th orb kill, tell him to pick that up.

    Is his Elemental offspec? I just saw he got the Golden Lotus riung with Crit, whereas there is a hit+haste alternative when you buy rings from Golden Lotus, the only reason I can think of is he is resto main and crit is good for resto. (actually checked his main is resto, now it make sense)

    471 purple weapon, and Windsong...sigh. But I will let that one slip as apparently a lot of people cannot afford (or willing to pay for) Jade Spirit (come on that benefit resto a lot too).

    If his main is Resto then it explains a lot why the sub 60k dps in that gear, he probably need to learn how to play Elemental properly first on a target dummy.

  13. #33
    High Overlord Alwayshealing's Avatar
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    Ok Arynzerr, I will speak to her today as tonight is raid night and let her make the call whatever can get those sparks down and boost dps up. Maybe there is an addon I could suggest. Hmmmm, I better go do more research on Rogues/Mages/Shamans. Thank you all!

  14. #34
    I'm sure I'll be repeating some of what you've read already.

    1) The dps should be higher. Granted, you shouldn't expect your log to look like others' who have done it quite a bit. The thing is, when people get 10 or more of the debuff stacks, it's going to inflate their numbers much higher than yours. But that still doesn't excuse dps being below the tanks on this fight.

    2) Your raid should be making the most of the buff for standing in the middle of the circle, which increases healing received and damage done. They should find ways to also drop it before it stacks too high. Ranged/heals can stand at a sweet spot on the edge where standing they get the buff but jumping drops it. They need to make sure they are getting the damage buff for the waves as well as Elegon and protectors (and if they can jump at the edge to drop reset debuff before adds die, that'll help heals).

    3) With waves of charges, I think you should concentrate on killing 4 waves each time. Each additional stack makes the fight MUCH easier. 7 waves killed total is doable, but really tough. Find out who the weak links are and have the tanks help them out, possibly heals. They need to be able to get 4 reliably, even if it means saving CDs for them. Remember, these mobs are going to be up for like 10 secs or w/e, so their rotation may be diff than a regular boss mob. If you can kill 5-4, the last phase just keeps getting easier. Regardless, you need to decide on a set amount (at least 4-4), and don't attack the waves after that. Just use the extra time to burn the boss.

    4) Everyone should be pre-potting. It's tremendously helpful on this fight. You want to get Elegon to 85% having only summoned 2 protectors. 3 is workable, but tougher.

    5) You want to get Elegon to 50% from 85% only getting 3 protectors. This is easier the more waves you kill the first time. 4 protectors means your dps is low and it's going to be tough. And you have to work on getting the timing right so that you don't have a protector to kill when the waves are getting ready to spawn (maybe having melee peel off boss early to help w/ protector).

    6) When you kill the pylons, synchronize it. Each person/group responsible for a charge should take that respective pylon as well. The more pylons are down, the faster Elegon summons adds. If they go down together, you end up having to kill less adds. Also, keep using the buff right up until the floor gives way. If you're standing on the sweet spot, you won't fall in.

    7) In the final phase, everyone stack in the middle behind the boss including the OT. Tanks should taunt swap to allow the other to go clear their stacking debuffs. No one else should clear theirs; they should all be zerging the boss. Blow BL here, chain raid CDs, 2nd pot, etc. DPS should pop immunities if they're close to dying (even if they can't dps, they can still buy their healers time).

    Also, Ancestral Guidance is a pretty sick option for your elem during the final phase.

  15. #35
    Just a few tips for the shaman, if he is having trouble on the orbs use lightning bolt on boss to stack earth shock to 5-7 and use Flame Shock - > Lava burst - > Elemental Blast -> Lightning bolt rotation on orbs, Save earth shock for 3rd-4th orb to guaranteed. If lucky on crits he should kill the orb with the elemental blast and help out others.

    Also switch to Ancestral guidance and macro it to ascendance so both pop at the same time. Use Ascendance the first time after the you down the first set of pillars and only when the floor spawns for the extra healing / damage and nuke down the adds with lava beam, this basically means that the adds will all die in 2-4 seconds if stacked and all the raid will be healed fully, less work for you healers. The second time he should use it is when you enter last phase, at 20-30% your group will be topped at 100% for 10secs. This made the fight so much easier for the healers, good luck with the kill.

  16. #36
    High Overlord Alwayshealing's Avatar
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    Grym the Elemental Shaman is my husband lol He was healing beside me til we lost our Boomkin, and found a Resto Druid to replace her spot but then the question of who would go Dps came up. The other heals preffered to stay Resto so my husband agreed to Dps. He has been staring at EJ.com constantly and spending coutnless hours trying to perfect his Ele set but he knows he is greatly lacking atm.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Alwayshealing View Post
    Ok Arynzerr, I will speak to her today as tonight is raid night and let her make the call whatever can get those sparks down and boost dps up. Maybe there is an addon I could suggest. Hmmmm, I better go do more research on Rogues/Mages/Shamans. Thank you all!
    i personally still like to stick to frost for elegon, as you can easily instagib the orbs with your procs.
    if she has experience with frost, this would be her best call i guess.

  18. #38
    Have ranged stack on the edge with healers. If they do it right, they can just jump to remove the stacks. Have mellee kill the add since they have to run out anyways.
    kill 4 sparks and just dps Elegon on the 5th
    Try to kill the pylons around the same time to minimize adds. They spawn when the pylons on both sides go down, so we will put 1 person on the front, and have the others burn the back then middle, that ways all 6 tend to go down around the same time.
    Tanks should not be beating the DPS on damage done
    In final phase your resto druid should pop tree and LB everyone to stabalize as they run in, then spam RG.
    Once you down him once, it gets easier.

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwayshealing View Post
    ~They are always inside til 6 then they do a hop to drop the stacks.
    ~All Ranged & Melee are on the add.
    That is how we did differently.

    We have 2 person on add only, the rest stay on boss. The boss should hit 85% as the second add dies, and about 4-5 add dead when hitting 50%.

    As for the orbs, I hope it is others that fails, your Shaman SHOULD NOT fail before the 5th orb at least, as LvB + EB the orb is pretty much near dead, with good overload proc it is already dead with plenty of time to nuke the boss a few times before next orb comes.

    Your dps in Feng is...really low as well. Elemental Shaman with ilvl 478, in a pretty much stand still fight with very minimal movement, and he has Unleash Gylph so that shouldn't even bother him. 49k dps on Feng with 478 gear with purple weapon and the DMC relic, there is something wrong with his rotatio and such.

    What is his general rotation/priority he do?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by arynzerr View Post
    i seriously respect your commitment as a reaidlead, but in case it's a not a group of rl-friends or something similar i would never dedicate that much effort to fixing somebody else's dmg.

    as harsh at it sounds, but those guys who pull of like 60k dps won't get much better even if you tell them how to play.

    maybe you should think about getting new members for your group if your situation doesn't change.
    well....part of being a raidlead is knowing how and when to tell some one they cant cut it =\

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwayshealing View Post
    No our pug was a Hunter I believe top or 2nd highest dps?
    yeah the hunter and druid were the most consistent it seemed. well there is plenty of advice here. the above quote i found the most relevant. if they arnt close friends and need a raid lead to tell them how to play/spec their class then they dont get a raid seat imho.
    Originally Posted by statlerthegreat
    I don't play a real world simulator. I play World of Warcraft. Where I am a Goblin, named after an explosive, that hurls balls of arcane "fuck you up" at internet dragons/ogres/whateverthehellmaloriakis.

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