1. #1

    help me understand blood

    I have read guides but I still can't wrap my mind around some things. If you guys could explain with examples that would be great.

    How does a dk tank 5man and raids. I have only done dungeons on my dk but still not sure how I should be using my runes. Guides say to use runes on death strike as much as possible. Do I spam abilities or death strike only? What does a dk tank do in a dungeon that's different from raids? Trash, boss pulls?

    Runes. It's really confusing for me. Not sure how they are used or what to spend them on. All I do atm is use whatever I can and then dump the rp on rune strike till I get runes back.

    Rune "gaming" I cannot understand.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    "Gaming" runes is something you do with the Runic Empowerment talent, by only spending ONE of the two Blood Runes (and making sure to have your other runes fully depleted), and using Rune Strike to procc Death Runes in the place of Frost and Unholy Runes so you can use Death Strike more. If you pick Blood Tap you don't need to do this, AND you have a lot more control of you runes, I really recommend it.

    Using your runes as a Tank is extremely situational, generally though Frost/Unholy and Death Runes will be used for Death Strike, whereas Blood Runes will be used for Blood Boil, Heart Strike, Rune Tap and Soul Reaper (enemy below 35%).

  3. #3
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    It used to be a slight bit more complicated when Bone Shield used an unholy rune and Blade Barrier only activated when a blood rune was recharging, but mainly it works like this:

    - Use a blood rune on Blood Boil or Heart Strike (HS < 3, BB > 3) or Pestilence to spread diseases if in the opening of the fight.
    - Use the rest of your runes on Death Strikes. In 5 mans you can pretty much blindly use it, but in raids you will sometimes want to hold off when you know some serious physical damage is incoming (or you can pre-shield)
    - Use Rune Strike to burn off your RP and regen your runes as death runes (hence why you only use one blood rune), either through runic empowerment or runic corruption. Alternately you can take Blood Tap which offers the most control but I'm pretty sure RE is ahead of that in raiding

    So mainly it works by burning runes through a combination of blood abilities (HS, BB, Pest), and the frost/unholy/death through DS, and regenerating those runes by using the runic power generated by them by hitting Rune Strike.

    That's the basics.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    I have read guides but I still can't wrap my mind around some things. If you guys could explain with examples that would be great.

    How does a dk tank 5man and raids. I have only done dungeons on my dk but still not sure how I should be using my runes. Guides say to use runes on death strike as much as possible. Do I spam abilities or death strike only? What does a dk tank do in a dungeon that's different from raids? Trash, boss pulls?

    Runes. It's really confusing for me. Not sure how they are used or what to spend them on. All I do atm is use whatever I can and then dump the rp on rune strike till I get runes back.

    Rune "gaming" I cannot understand.

    Thanks
    You want to use runestrike before you cap. So while gaming runes, as explained in the post above, you'll hit death strike. Runes are on CD except one or both both bloods. Rune strike to spend runic power and chance at proc. death strike again. If you can't death strike, hit rune strike again for another chance at a proc, then spend either a blood or use horn of winter to gain some rp back and death strike. If you do anything that gains runic power while capped, you are basically wasting a potential rune strike that could have turned into a death rune.

    The difference between raid tanking and five man tanking is kind of irrelevant. But if it's anything, in raiding situation you want to focus more on surviving than just randomly death striking and "dps'ing". What I mean by this is, while your focus should always be surviving, players typically tend to care less in 5-mans because they out gear it and can pump out damage. On a raid boss, strategic use of death strikes and cooldowns can make your life much easier as well as a healers.

  5. #5
    Hmm yeah I guess I gotta get some dk addons to help with that it's hard doing the whole runes thing myself xD

  6. #6
    You'll be better off in the long run just using an addon to track your runes; DocsDebugRunes, or DDR for short, is my preferred one. You could also use a 'rotation helper' type addon such as CLC DK until you get used to it - but I insist you don't follow it exactly, because as with all tanks you should only use abilities when you need them, and Death Strike is the same.

  7. #7
    Bone Shield up, check for buffs, ready check. All clear?

    Run in.

    Drop DnD on the mobs.
    Hit them with Outbreak.
    Follow with a blood boil. If you got the talent, this now diseases all other mobs.
    Death grip any casters who didn't run. If there's more than one caster, drag the melee to one caster and death grip the other.
    Hit them with Heart Strike.
    Follow with Death Strike.
    Hit them again with Blood Boil.
    Spam Rune Strike.

    At this point, use blood runes for Heart Strike, other runes for Death Strike.

    Proc:
    Quite frequent - use it on DnD if it's off CD UNLESS your diseases are about expire. Then use it on BB to refresh diseases.
    When DnD is on CD, use BB

    Keep Bone Shield up. Horn of Winter for more RP. Rune Strike to burn RP.

    If there's a big ability coming that you recognize (assuming you looked up strats before pulling LIKE YOU SHOULD DO), pop AMS for magic and Icebound fortitude for physical.

    When you take a big hit - pop Vamp Blood FOLLOWED by Rune Tap. Rune Tap gives you % HP back. Vamp increases max HP which makes Rune Tap give you a temporary bigger heal. Follow with Death Strike. If Runes are down, Empower Rune Weapon and DS til you're topped.

    There really isn't any hard concept to gather. At least not from what I've seen since I started Blood Tanking in ICC.

    I've been a Blood Tank ever since. My play style, though, revolves around the idea that there is no healer. When I think like this, then I really focus on trying to stay beefy and heal as much as I can. Anything the healer gives on top of that is just fantastic.

    TL;DR
    Check for buffs
    Open in this order: DnD, Outbreak, BB, DS, HS, BB, HoW, Rune Strike dump.
    Continue in this order: Blood Rune: Heartstrike. Other Runes: Death Strike

    Proc:
    DnD off cooldown: DnD
    DnD on cooldown: BB
    Disease about to expire: BB

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    TL;DR
    Check for buffs
    Open in this order: DnD, Outbreak, BB, DS, HS, BB, HoW, Rune Strike dump.
    Continue in this order: Blood Rune: Heartstrike. Other Runes: Death Strike
    You shouldn't really be opening with a set rotation, especially as the amount of mobs and Vengeance changes things greatly. If there are multiple mobs you don't really want to be using Heart Strike either, Blood Boil will do more damage, refresh/spread diseases (talented) and hit all the targets.

    As an opener for a pack of mobs you will want to run in and HoW (pre-pull) > D&D > Outbreak > BB as you said, but then BB with all your Blood Runes (unless you need Rune Tap). Death Strike when/where you need healing with your other sets of runes. Though in 5 mans you will generally be using them simply to change them to Death Runes so you can spam more Blood Boils, there are very few fights where you actually need be healed.

    And on the topic of using things for more DPS, don't forget you can also put up your diseases during DRW and spread all of them for extra damage.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    You shouldn't really be opening with a set rotation, especially as the amount of mobs and Vengeance changes things greatly. If there are multiple mobs you don't really want to be using Heart Strike either, Blood Boil will do more damage, refresh/spread diseases (talented) and hit all the targets.

    As an opener for a pack of mobs you will want to run in and HoW (pre-pull) > D&D > Outbreak > BB as you said, but then BB with all your Blood Runes (unless you need Rune Tap). Death Strike when/where you need healing with your other sets of runes. Though in 5 mans you will generally be using them simply to change them to Death Runes so you can spam more Blood Boils, there are very few fights where you actually need be healed.

    And on the topic of using things for more DPS, don't forget you can also put up your diseases during DRW and spread all of them for extra damage.
    Yeah sure. Maxing DPS is great, but I'm providing a pretty general formula that can be used regardless of situation. That's partly why I didn't include ghouls or DRW... or mention anything about kiting w/Chiliblains, etc.

    Also, are you saying that I should just take HS of my bar and use BB?

  10. #10
    Honestly, don't worry about dps and there's not really a rotation for tanking. The dps will come with just staying alive and taking the beating. Usually, pull with Death and Decay, get all your diseases up on the targets, and just tab through spamming death strike. If there's 3+ targets, use bloodboil.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    Yeah sure. Maxing DPS is great, but I'm providing a pretty general formula that can be used regardless of situation. That's partly why I didn't include ghouls or DRW... or mention anything about kiting w/Chiliblains, etc.

    Also, are you saying that I should just take HS of my bar and use BB?
    I understand that, but since the OP was asking the difference between dungeons and raids I thought I would note it, along with the random Heart Strike in the pull: "DnD, Outbreak, BB, DS, HS, BB, HoW, Rune Strike dump." which just seems strange.

    As for your question, the answer is no. Heart Strike should still do more damage single-target (post 35%) and, depending on your vengeance, up to 3 targets. You just have to find out where that limit is.

  12. #12
    Thanks for clearing it up guys. Also got a question about death strike. From what I hear is using it once every 5 seconds or after a big boss hit?

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Hi, there. Death Strike and it power depend on the A) incomming dmg that ist not parried/dodged B) Your mastery.
    The 5 second rule applies as the 'buff' for the DS is available after a hit for 5 seconds. If this blow gets you realy low, dont waste time waiting for another, hit DS as much as you can. Otherwise utilize the incomming dmg for a greater heal/shield by waiting for the 'buff' to accumulate.
    You can track this nicely with an addon -- i think it is called Blood shield tracker. But i'm not 100% sure.

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