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  1. #1

    Protection Warrior questions - not clearly answered in guide

    Hello all,

    Just registered to the site because after reading through the guide, my questions just were not clearly answered. So here is a list of my current questions. May add to these along the way.

    I will be basing my questions off of the Protection Guide that is stickied on these forums (Tried to post link, wouldn't let me due to being a new user)

    Shield Block vs. Shield Barrier.
    - Why would anyone use Shield Block, when Shield Barrier absorbs all damage. I'm going to attempt to answer my own question. Is it because Shield Barrier will be knocked off in one to two swings from a boss, while Shield Block will block partial damage for a full 6 seconds? This makes the most sense to me I assume, even though you could use Shield Barrier even as low as 20 rage, when you have to wait until 60 rage for Shield Block.

    Sword n' Board
    - From reading the guide, the writer writes for the "SINGLE TARGET" (Sword n Board (Shield Slam) -> Shield Slam -> Revenge -> Shout -> etc...) It is my understanding that you cannot get Sword n Board unless you "proc" it off Devistate, so is he telling me to charge in, Devistate until I get Sword n' Board, and than hit Shield Slam? That doesn't make any sense to me, or am I completely missing another way to get Sword n' Board.

    Gemming
    - The writer of the guide says to not gem straight stamina, but instead to gem mastery, and if you have to get the set-bonus, go Mastery + Stamina. Did something get completely changed? Is that really how you gem now? Stack Mastery, and don't touch pure stamina? Would really like clarification on this.

    Hit / Expertise
    - Again, the writer says you need to get to 7.5% hit / expertise. Fine, I understand this, but than he goes on to say that you should even go as far as gemming and reforging for hit / expertise to get the 7.5%. Is this actually true? Should I sacrifice Stam, Mastery, Parry, etc. for Hit / Expertise?

    Glyphs
    - The writer says to grab "Glyph of Unending Rage" to increase the cap from 100 to 120. I understand why someone may do this, but for me, whenever I'm hitting 60 rage, I'm either popping Shield Block, or Shield Barrier. I actually never let me rage go over 60. Am I doing something wrong? I grabbed the Spell Reflection glyph to lower the cool down by 5 seconds. He also says to grab "Glyph of Bull Rush". Basically my three glyphs are Spell Reflection, Shield Block, and Revenge.

    90 Talent
    - Writer says to grab Avatar, and that's honestly what I see most going, but I grabbed Storm Bolt. It's 400% weapon damage (currently hitting for 40k non-crit, 70-80k Crit, every 30 seconds (using on cool down) - to me (I haven't done the math), that is more damage than Avatar, so that would really make Avatar's main use to break immobilization, etc.

    Anyway, my class is about to end, so I need to shut down my computer. I'll check back, and may add stuff to this later.

    THANKS!

    Talint

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Talint View Post
    Hello all,

    Just registered to the site because after reading through the guide, my questions just were not clearly answered. So here is a list of my current questions. May add to these along the way.

    I will be basing my questions off of the Protection Guide that is stickied on these forums (Tried to post link, wouldn't let me due to being a new user)

    Shield Block vs. Shield Barrier.
    - Why would anyone use Shield Block, when Shield Barrier absorbs all damage. I'm going to attempt to answer my own question. Is it because Shield Barrier will be knocked off in one to two swings from a boss, while Shield Block will block partial damage for a full 6 seconds? This makes the most sense to me I assume, even though you could use Shield Barrier even as low as 20 rage, when you have to wait until 60 rage for Shield Block.
    The majority of bosses don't hit me hard enough to justify such a small barrier when block is up for 6 seconds. I use it for things like breaths or other unblockable damage, for the most part. Blocking the melee provides a fairly static reduction in damage.

    Sword n' Board
    - From reading the guide, the writer writes for the "SINGLE TARGET" (Sword n Board (Shield Slam) -> Shield Slam -> Revenge -> Shout -> etc...) It is my understanding that you cannot get Sword n Board unless you "proc" it off Devistate, so is he telling me to charge in, Devistate until I get Sword n' Board, and than hit Shield Slam? That doesn't make any sense to me, or am I completely missing another way to get Sword n' Board.
    No, it's not talking about off the charge. SnB procs are prioritized over all over abilities because they provide 25 rage, which is the highest of any ability. If you're looking for an opener, throw and shield slam work great.

    Gemming
    - The writer of the guide says to not gem straight stamina, but instead to gem mastery, and if you have to get the set-bonus, go Mastery + Stamina. Did something get completely changed? Is that really how you gem now? Stack Mastery, and don't touch pure stamina? Would really like clarification on this.
    IDK, I haven't found a guide that provides 1 definitive way. I gem for stam, hit and expertise because those are what I was short on at the time.

    Hit / Expertise
    - Again, the writer says you need to get to 7.5% hit / expertise. Fine, I understand this, but than he goes on to say that you should even go as far as gemming and reforging for hit / expertise to get the 7.5%. Is this actually true? Should I sacrifice Stam, Mastery, Parry, etc. for Hit / Expertise?
    It's fine to go ahead and hard cap expertise at 15% as well as 7.5% hit. Reasons being this will guarantee all of your rage generators will land, and you can get your shield up when you need it. There's not enough mastery on gear currently to make stacking it to max out crit blocks completely viable. Future tiers will possibly be different in gearing focus. Parry and dodge are unreliable stats.

    Glyphs
    - The writer says to grab "Glyph of Unending Rage" to increase the cap from 100 to 120. I understand why someone may do this, but for me, whenever I'm hitting 60 rage, I'm either popping Shield Block, or Shield Barrier. I actually never let me rage go over 60. Am I doing something wrong? I grabbed the Spell Reflection glyph to lower the cool down by 5 seconds. He also says to grab "Glyph of Bull Rush". Basically my three glyphs are Spell Reflection, Shield Block, and Revenge.
    Unending rage is great. Think about when SB is on cooldown, and you have a lul in heavy damage, such as the combo phase on Will of the Emp. I just pool rage for when he begins attacking again, and get a full 18-24 seconds of full block coverage. Personally I don't charge enough to make bull rush worthwhile. I get more benefit from using heavy repercussions, hold the line, and unending rage. If I was in a position where I needed the extra rage from charge, I'd switch a dps glyph out. It's really up to the user.

    90 Talent
    - Writer says to grab Avatar, and that's honestly what I see most going, but I grabbed Storm Bolt. It's 400% weapon damage (currently hitting for 40k non-crit, 70-80k Crit, every 30 seconds (using on cool down) - to me (I haven't done the math), that is more damage than Avatar, so that would really make Avatar's main use to break immobilization, etc.
    Avatar generated additional rage last patch, and was nerfed in 5.1 to remove that. Bloodbath is currently the highest DPS 90 talent. Stormbolt does less damage than devastate and doesn't proc extra shield slams.


    Hope I was able to help a bit. Some of this stuff is opinion- just bear in mind there's no 1 perfect gearing strategy- and for the most part if you are generating enough rage, you're staying alive.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by idefiler6 View Post
    No, it's not talking about off the charge. SnB procs are prioritized over all over abilities because they provide 25 rage, which is the highest of any ability. If you're looking for an opener, throw and shield slam work great.
    To clarify: Sometimes your Shield Slam will come off cooldown without being a proc. So i guess the author of the guide was just trying to point out that you should always hit Shield Slam when available, regardless of procs.

    But yeah, the previous post sums it up pretty good.

  4. #4
    Yes.. +1 to Idefiler6.

    Thanks a ton man, you actually taught me some stuff I didn't think about, like using Storm Bolt is actually bad, because it puts your skills on the GCD and you can't generate rage that way. I didn't think of that.. DUH me...

    Thanks!

    Talint

  5. #5
    Regarding the gemming: the way I understand it, Stamina is more or less the Spirit for tanks. That is, the amount you have is more or less what you (and by extension, your healers) are comfortable with. There isn't really a definitive way to approach this anymore. You want to, at minimum, have enough health to not get one-shot by any abilities (and have enough health left over that you can survive a melee swing or two after that in order to give your healers time to heal you). After that it's all about comfort. The more health you have, the more of a cushion your healers have to keep you up.

  6. #6
    Yeah, thanks Moontalin, I can see it that way too. I've always been more of a Stamina kind of guy. I think I'll probably go pure stamina in blue slots, pure mastery in yellow, and parry + stamina in red or something along those lines.

    Talint

  7. #7
    Hi
    if i may add to this post,
    for the shield block and shield barrier what i do is see what is the main source of Dmg i receive and ajusted to it like if i go against the stone guard i keep shield barrier up cauz the main source of dmg is a bleed effect which shield block is totally useless. On the other hand if i go against emperor or gara'jal i go for shield block all the way.

    for hit/expertise i tried both no hit/exp and hit/exp soft cap and what i came to the conclusion is that capping hit really smooth the dmg income and help you keep SB on CD and even throw some shield barrier whit my excess rage! but try both you will see whit what you are more confortable!

    for gemming i think stam is best even in 10 man i mostly gem blue-stam, yellow-stam mastery, red-stam parry ill just put my JC gem whit mastery!
    (btw sorry for my english not my first language)

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talint View Post
    - The writer says to grab "Glyph of Unending Rage" to increase the cap from 100 to 120. I understand why someone may do this, but for me, whenever I'm hitting 60 rage, I'm either popping Shield Block, or Shield Barrier. I actually never let me rage go over 60. Am I doing something wrong? I grabbed the Spell Reflection glyph to lower the cool down by 5 seconds. He also says to grab "Glyph of Bull Rush". Basically my three glyphs are Spell Reflection, Shield Block, and Revenge.
    The way I look at the glyph of unending rage is that it is great when you aren't sure you can always generate sufficient rage for shield block & -barrier, because it lets you pool more excess rage when you are lucky with s&b and revenge procs, and save it for when you aren't as lucky. However, once you hit 7.5% on hit and exp, even more so with 15% expertise, you will be able to generate rage much more reliably that the excess rage pool becomes a little redundant. Ofc, it is still nice, particularly during execute phases but I would still opt to transition out of unending rage when your rage generation is stable.

    I'm currently using glyph of incite in its place, which lets me pop both blood bath and deadly calm at the same time, getting out those extra heroic strikes, or cleave if you are on add control.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Xzoka View Post
    for gemming i think stam is best even in 10 man i mostly gem blue-stam, yellow-stam mastery, red-stam parry ill just put my JC gem whit mastery!
    Is there any situation you can think of where roughly 10% more hitpoints could make or break anything for you? Else i'd advise smoothing damage out as much possible via gemming mastery.

    Hit/exp helps on rage generation in general and for me more importantly: snap aggro. With vigilance gone since MoP it's crucial that you don't miss during your tank swaps or the other tank has to stop entirely every time due to vengeance (with tanks still topping meters on some fights that's a nono for my raid).

    Quote Originally Posted by Talint View Post
    Shield Block vs. Shield Barrier.
    - Why would anyone use Shield Block, when Shield Barrier absorbs all damage. I'm going to attempt to answer my own question. Is it because Shield Barrier will be knocked off in one to two swings from a boss, while Shield Block will block partial damage for a full 6 seconds? This makes the most sense to me I assume, even though you could use Shield Barrier even as low as 20 rage, when you have to wait until 60 rage for Shield Block.
    Barrier shines on really high vengeance stacks and soft hitting bosses while shield block shines on hard hitting bosses (guaranteed -30% damage taken and a good chance for -60% with critical blocks) and for buffing your shield slam (glyphed +50% damage). Take for example Blade Lord Mel'jarak on heroic mode, my barrier absorbed 335k on average on our last kill and was my top healing received with 45% and while playing with three healers. Also another obvious point: you can't block magical & bleed damage, shield block is almost useless on fights like elegon (50% melee damage taken, predictable magical bursts from breath & dieing protectors - perfect for a small cooldown) or stone guards (only 20% melee damage taken).

    Quote Originally Posted by Talint View Post
    Hit / Expertise
    - Again, the writer says you need to get to 7.5% hit / expertise. Fine, I understand this, but than he goes on to say that you should even go as far as gemming and reforging for hit / expertise to get the 7.5%. Is this actually true? Should I sacrifice Stam, Mastery, Parry, etc. for Hit / Expertise?
    7.5% hit to apply weakend blows debuff every time is logical but why 7.5% expertise? To my understanding they changed it, first 7.5% remove only dodges and the other 7.5% remove only parry - no double dipping before that so no additional gains. Aim for hitcap and start working on your expertise, at a certain point you'll have some gear and can start to experiment with more exp versus other useful stats, if you can maintain shieldblock already there's little to no reason to stack expertise unless you despise mastery but then again you could go for more avoidance or stam instead.

  10. #10
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Barrier shines on really high vengeance stacks and soft hitting bosses
    Shield block is almost useless on fights like elegon
    These two statements... wow

    Firstly you wont get high vengeance on a low hitting boss because that's like saying this red light is also green and as far as I know quantum mechanics don't come into play generally that often in WoW, so you have effectively, incorrectly, justified it for any situation

    Secondly.... 'What'

    To just dismiss shield block like this is just frankly shocking and to then inflict this ill-informed opinion on someone else is even worse
    For Elegon you can quite readily keep shield block at maximum uptime and then barrier the breaths / add explosions

    Any half decent tank you can see, go on WoL and look at what they are using... its shield block all of the time with the gaps filled with barrier. Go figure :P

    The only possible exception to this would be stone guards due to 80% of the damage being from the bleed, however with semi competent healers its better to just use block for the DPS gain as the intake off the bleed is so steady and relatively low it shouldn't cause any issues at all


    As for the first point you made stamina wise, it will always be king on progress with the only exception being tier 13 and thus possibly tier 16 at which point we will have enough to make it viable stacking
    Last edited by eddytheone; 2012-12-05 at 03:37 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Is there any situation you can think of where roughly 10% more hitpoints could make or break anything for you? Else i'd advise smoothing damage out as much possible via gemming mastery.
    well yes i see a use in 10% more Hit point when mastery will be obsolete in most fight your are taking magical or bleed effect. and even for fight heavy in melee like blade lord where is most deadly attack is a strike that is unavoidable!! well this is my opinion on the subject some prefer mastery on my end i do love the extrat stam i can get

  12. #12
    Check

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...afarion/simple
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...her/Sco/simple
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Kungen/simple

    You will find one answer. There is no right way, but your way.

    Do not go all out on mastery. Makes no sense. It is common to go 7.5% hit/expertise. Going from 7.5% expertise to 15% expertise provides the same benefit as from going from 0 to 7.5%. Regarding gems...you will find any gem combination you can think of. Most of them will include stamina for increased EH. Trying to hard cap both hit and expertise will gain you more active mitigation and higher dps.

    If you go all out on stamina gems or mix in mastery/expertise is up to you.
    Last edited by zorker; 2012-12-07 at 01:03 PM.
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  13. #13
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    I honestly wouldn't use kungen as a guide for anything but yeah:P

    I'd seriously say you cant get enough mastery atm to make it viable as the benefit wont really outweigh the RNG if you get unlucky
    Last edited by eddytheone; 2012-12-05 at 07:54 PM.

  14. #14
    Shield block is good on lots of adds as it will help with resetting revenge for more rage generation.

  15. #15
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    I just wanted to say thanks to the warrior community for standing up and answering all of these questions i had been wondering the same question about geming myself. Thanks to the OP as well for taking the time to create it. It really helped out.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Shield block is good on lots of adds as it will help with resetting revenge for more rage generation.
    Please go read the Revenge description before posting.


    And Barrier vs. Block, it's quite trivial, if Shield Block mitigates more damage in the 6 seconds it's up than one shield barrier does, use Shield Block. For me, doing only heroic mode bosses, that's pretty much always. Even when it isn't true, I still use Shield Block, to smooth the damage intake rather than fully absorb hit, then partially absorb hit, then a gap without rage to absorb, before I've build up rage again to spend.
    Last edited by Malm; 2012-12-06 at 04:47 PM.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Malm View Post
    Please go read the Revenge description before posting.
    Lol derp my bad

  18. #18
    I truly feel that in this tier Shield Block reigns supreme on most heroic content. The majority of bosses hit like a truck, and tank deaths are coming from spikes in damage. If you health is slowly withering away because your healers can't keep up, something is wrong with your healers.

    You want to be able to reduce spikiness of dmg intake as much as possible so you healers can use efficient rotations. Spikes lead to expensive heals lead to healers OOMing. On most fights I will make sure I have as much shield block uptime as I can, using barrier for the ime I can't keep it up or to mitigate extra incoming damage (Blade Lord's Unbalancing Strike for example).

    This seems to be the absolute preference of my healers, and I prefer the playstyle as well, what happens with barrier is there's moments where you are completely exposed. If you drop a 60 rage barrier for Blade Lord's Unbalancing Strike, the barrier is gone straight after and you will have nothing up. This is a boss that hits for 220k before block on my current gear (493-ish). This moment in between barriers is a shitstorm, as Heroic bosses will absolutely crush you. Warriors are amazing on melee heavy fight BECAUSE we have shield block. Steady mitigation on every hit makes life easy for both you and your healing team.

    Although Shield Block is less total damage reduction on this fight, the fact that my healers know exactly when I will need a little more than a standard heal renders the entire mechanic pretty much irrelevant. If I have enough rage to do so, I'll drop a 30 rage barrier on top of the block for the unbalancing strike, sure, but block comes first for me.

  19. #19
    I'm still using the Dragon Whelpling trinket for the 1800 passive stat boost. That is worth 6 secondary stat gems (320 hit, 320 exp, 320 mastery each).

    I can only replace the Whelpling trinket with another trinket with nearly the same stat boost or by a stamina trinket that allows me to change 6 +240 stamina gems into secondary stat only gems. 6 * 240 sta = 1440 sta. (Only the epic 476+ stamina trinkets can do that)

    The dragon whelpling is a pretty amazing starter trinket!

    Sidenote:
    Taking STR+STA gems in favor of EXP+STA makes no sense if you are using +170 EXP enchant on your gloves instead of the +170 STR enchant.
    Gems only give 80 STR while the glove enchants nets full 170 STR.
    Last edited by zorker; 2012-12-07 at 01:13 PM.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyy View Post
    I truly feel that in this tier Shield Block reigns supreme on most heroic content. The majority of bosses hit like a truck, and tank deaths are coming from spikes in damage. If you health is slowly withering away because your healers can't keep up, something is wrong with your healers.

    You want to be able to reduce spikiness of dmg intake as much as possible so you healers can use efficient rotations. Spikes lead to expensive heals lead to healers OOMing. On most fights I will make sure I have as much shield block uptime as I can, using barrier for the ime I can't keep it up or to mitigate extra incoming damage (Blade Lord's Unbalancing Strike for example).

    This seems to be the absolute preference of my healers, and I prefer the playstyle as well, what happens with barrier is there's moments where you are completely exposed. If you drop a 60 rage barrier for Blade Lord's Unbalancing Strike, the barrier is gone straight after and you will have nothing up. This is a boss that hits for 220k before block on my current gear (493-ish). This moment in between barriers is a shitstorm, as Heroic bosses will absolutely crush you. Warriors are amazing on melee heavy fight BECAUSE we have shield block. Steady mitigation on every hit makes life easy for both you and your healing team.

    Although Shield Block is less total damage reduction on this fight, the fact that my healers know exactly when I will need a little more than a standard heal renders the entire mechanic pretty much irrelevant. If I have enough rage to do so, I'll drop a 30 rage barrier on top of the block for the unbalancing strike, sure, but block comes first for me.
    I agree with this post. I find myself using SBlock way more than Sbar through this tier's raid content. On top of my head, the fights I really use Sbar more than Sblock are

    MV
    Stone Guard (the bleed is #1 dmg in that fight)
    Feng (DoT #1 dmg)
    Elegon (ONLY when he does breath)

    HoF
    None, I think.

    ToES
    Protectors, if you are "tanking" the casters
    Tsulong (only on breath)
    LeiShi (don't even use Sblock except for Adds)

    Everything is, SBLOCK reigns supreme. PERIOD. I recently got my 4 piece, and wow IT IS NICE!

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