View Poll Results: Should circumcision be the person's own choice?

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  • Yes

    657 79.64%
  • No

    168 20.36%
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  1. #1

    Should circumcision be the person's OWN choice?


    Pictured: Despite religious opposition, courts in various countries around the world have found circumcision to be an infringement upon an individual's right to self determination.

    A key issue relating to men's rights currently being discussed is the genital mutilation young boys undergo without their consent. Before a child is able to give consent, their foreskin is removed. Many men's rights activists question the need to follow such an archaic tradition, especially when it infringes upon an individual's right to self-determination and choice.

    In the United States, circumcision wasn't popularized until Victorian times, when a few doctors began to recommend it to prevent children from masturbating. Besides the obvious religious advocates of circumcision, Dr Kellogg, known for creating the famous Kellogg's Cereal brand was the primary influential advocate.

    According to Dr Kellogg; circumcision prevents masturbation. He also advocated using acid on the female clitoris to prevent masturbation.

    A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision...(.)... The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice (Masturbation), and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.
    He goes on to say;

    In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid (phenol) to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the excitement.

    However, despite the sad and abhorrent history of circumcision, some progress is being made. Recently the practice of child circumcision has been ruled ILLEGAL in Germany, even with parental consent. This has outraged Jewish and Muslim religious groups.

    The regional court in Cologne ruled on Tuesday that child circumcision constituted 'illegal bodily harm,' even with parental consent. In the verdict, the court said that the 'fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity outweighed the fundamental rights of the parents.'

    The case came about after a four-year-old Muslim boy's circumcision led to complications, and he checked back into hospital days later with severe bleeding.
    The court mentioned how this practice infringes upon the child's human right to choose their own religion;

    'A child's body is irreparably and permanently changed by a circumcision,' the court said. 'This change contravenes the interests of the child to decide later about his own religious affiliation.'
    A large number of independent studies have found that circumcised men are 4.5 times more likely to be diagnosed with erectile dysfunction, use drugs like Viagra, and to suffer from premature ejaculation. Furthermore 85% of US women who had experienced both circumcised and intact men preferred sex with intact men. Sex with a circumcised man was associated with pain, dryness and difficulty reaching orgasm. Women were twice as likely to reach orgasm with an intact man.

    Studies: (O'Hara 1999), (Bensley 2003), (Kim 2007, Solinis 2007), (Bollinger 2010, Tang 2011)

    World-wide, only 30% of men are circumcised, and most of these men are Muslim (WHO 2007). Most modern, Westernized countries have rates well below 20%. In the United States about 25 years ago, around 85% of babies were circumcised. The rates have dropped substantially to 32% in 2009, according to a report by the Centers for Disease Control (El Becheraoui 2010).

    So to the primarily male demographic of MMO-Champion, whether circumcised or uncircumcised, I pose the following question. Should men have the right to choose whether or not they want to be circumcised? Is it not the prerogative of the individual themself to decide whether they want to have their foreskin removed? This is an issue constantly pushed to the sidelines despite it's very significant influence on the lives of young men around the world. It seems only right as a male, to at least openly discuss the issue, whether religious fundamental groups approve or not.

    -Should circumcision be the individual's own choice?

    Sources:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...dily-harm.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ical-realities
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...cumcision.html

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    I was not circumcision, and thank god for that. The mere thought makes my crotch hurt. I personally see it is child abuse to have them circumcision. We are born with a foreskin for a reason. And they talk about it to prevent masturbation... what the hell is wrong with masturbation in the first place?

    I think that parents that have their child circumcision should be charged with child abuse, and have their baby removed. Religion is no reason to commit child abuse.

  3. #3
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Ignoring the religions aspect and masturbation, it's actually healthy to be circumcized because there's some unhealthy bacteria that usually gather in that area. When a person is circumcized, said bacterias evolve much, much harder.

    Also, it's not like it stops masturbation, it just makes it harder.

    Edit: Since people like to quote this upper part and say "oh, maybe if you don't wash" or other crap, here, some links that explain better all the benefits of circumcision:
    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Circumc...dvantages.aspx
    "There are several potential advantages and disadvantages associated with circumcising boys shortly after they are born.

    For example:

    Circumcision reduces the risk of developing a urinary tract infection (UTI), such as a bladder infection.
    Circumcision reduces the risk of getting some types of sexually transmitted infections such as HIV.
    Circumcision reduces the risk of developing cancer of the penis."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/sc...says.html?_r=0
    "The American Academy of Pediatrics has shifted its stance on infant male circumcision, announcing on Monday that new research, including studies in Africa suggesting that the procedure may protect heterosexual men against H.I.V., indicated that the health benefits outweighed the risks. "


    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cir...N=why-its-done
    "Circumcision might have various health benefits, including:

    Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. Washing beneath the foreskin of an uncircumcised penis is generally easy, however.
    Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The overall risk of urinary tract infections in males is low, but these infections are more common in uncircumcised males. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later on.
    Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. Circumcised men might have a lower risk of certain sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Still, safe sexual practices remain essential.
    Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis can be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can lead to inflammation of the foreskin or head of the penis.
    Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men. In addition, cervical cancer is less common in the female sexual partners of circumcised men.

    Circumcision might not be an option if certain blood-clotting disorders are present. In addition, circumcision might not be appropriate for premature babies who still require medical care in the hospital nursery.

    Circumcision doesn't affect fertility, nor is circumcision generally thought to enhance or detract from sexual pleasure for men or their partners. "

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...-male-infants/
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.or....full.pdf+html
    http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditio...e/circumcision
    http://www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html

    Well would you look at all these links! Guess circumcision does bring a benefit that you wouldn't get by "just washing".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    I was not circumcision, and thank god for that. The mere thought makes my crotch hurt. I personally see it is child abuse to have them circumcision. We are born with a foreskin for a reason. And they talk about it to prevent masturbation... what the hell is wrong with masturbation in the first place?

    I think that parents that have their child circumcision should be charged with child abuse, and have their baby removed. Religion is no reason to commit child abuse.
    We were born with quite a few stuff that aren't so useful to modern humans to be honest.

    http://www.bloggingwv.com/20-useless...-we-need-them/

    The wisdom teeth are one of the issues with which many of has had to deal with for example.

  4. #4
    As someone who is circumsized it really doesn't bother me in the slightest

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    We were born with quite a few stuff that aren't so useful to modern humans to be honest.
    Except the little toe (Or whatever it is called) I can name nothing that we do not "need"in some way.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Ignoring the religions aspect and masturbation, it's actually healthy to be circumcized because there's some unhealthy bacteria that usually gather in that area. When a person is circumcized, said bacterias evolve much, much harder.

    Also, it's not like it stops masturbation, it just makes it harder.
    Completely false.

    Cleaning involves a washcloth/luffa and that's it. There's no more bacteria that gathers compared to any other body part that's moist (between legs, etc.). That's nothing more than a completely false wive's tale spread to try to justify mutilation that began due to a religious practice.

    Secondly, you *are* aware that the skin from infant boys that's removed is sold to research departments so that the hospital can gain a revenue, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    The wisdom teeth are one of the issues with which many of has had to deal with for example.
    That statement will be true when you can convince women to have their clitoris removed. After all, they don't "need" it.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    I was not circumcision, and thank god for that. The mere thought makes my crotch hurt. I personally see it is child abuse to have them circumcision. We are born with a foreskin for a reason. And they talk about it to prevent masturbation... what the hell is wrong with masturbation in the first place?

    I think that parents that have their child circumcision should be charged with child abuse, and have their baby removed. Religion is no reason to commit child abuse.
    I agree, I find the whole practice of circumcision repulsive. There is only one truth about it, it's genital mutilation in which the victim has no say when it's a small child. If you wanna do it as an adult, fine (although I can't understand why anyone would want it, sans medical reasons), but don't force it on a young child. That's just sick.

  8. #8
    it's mutilation plain and simple. I remember a few years or so ago there was a big outcry in US about female circumcision for religious reasons and how awful the idea was (and it is indeed) and yet in the US it's apparently rare for a boy not to be circumcised. there's no harm in leaving the decision until they are old enough and informed enough to make the decision themselves
    I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me...
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  9. #9
    why is it even a discussion if a persons body is theirs? of course it is.
    women go mad if you make any hints their body isnt just theirs but cutting bits of a boy, thats fine? nice double standards you have there people.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Atrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    Except the little toe (Or whatever it is called) I can name nothing that we do not "need"in some way.
    Gall bladder, appendix - both of which can cause severe pain and even death if they develop a problem; and both of which you do not need at all.

    Also, I object to the OP using the term 'mutilation' to describe circumcision.
    It paints everyone who HAS been circumcised (a decision that, as you pointed out, is rarely a decision they make on their own) as somehow disfigured.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Istaril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Gall bladder, appendix - both of which can cause severe pain and even death if they develop a problem; and both of which you do not need at all.
    Hey, don't diss the appendix, you never know when you'll be stuck behind enemy lines and forced to eat grass.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Puck's Avatar
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    Yes. To this day I am glad that my parents did not decide to mutilate my groin.

  13. #13
    I am so glad my Catholic parents were smart enough to tidy up down there. That would just be weird to not have what I consider to be normal. Moreover, I don't remember even a snipit of the process.

  14. #14
    Why is male circumcision on unwilling victims still legal is the real question.
    Female circumcision is seen as something absolutely disgusting that only third world countries do as torture, yet male circumcision is seen as completely normal.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Gall bladder, appendix - both of which can cause severe pain and even death if they develop a problem; and both of which you do not need at all.

    Also, I object to the OP using the term 'mutilation' to describe circumcision.
    It paints everyone who HAS been circumcised (a decision that, as you pointed out, is rarely a decision they make on their own) as somehow disfigured.
    Gall bladder does have a function, you can just live with out it if you must, but you basically can never eat greasy food again.

  16. #16
    Well ladies prefer circumcised sooo...

  17. #17
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    i wouldn't call it mutilation, and as im from UK i am not cut. but i do believe it should be up to the person, i dont think its someone else's choice to have it off or not. if they want to have it cut when they are older, that is up to them. i how ever do not, and im glad i did not have it done as a child.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Also, I object to the OP using the term 'mutilation' to describe circumcision.
    Because it is mutilation. You have a part of your body removed, without your input, for no good reason.

    That's the very fucking definition of mutilation.

  19. #19
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lassira View Post
    Why is male circumcision on unwilling victims still legal is the real question.
    Female circumcision is seen as something absolutely disgusting that only third world countries do as torture, yet male circumcision is seen as completely normal.

    its only really seen normal among religious families and the US. its very rare in UK unless the parents are religious.
    Too cool for a signature

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viertel View Post
    Secondly, you *are* aware that the skin from infant boys that's removed is sold to research departments so that the hospital can gain a revenue, right?
    My father took that foreskin and buried it himself (tradition don't ask me) and I believe that if someone requests that they take it the hospital will usually give it to them no?
    Last edited by N-7; 2012-12-04 at 08:57 PM.

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