Glyph of Divinity vs. Glyph of Illumination

[Haxx0rcist]

Hello MMO-Champs!

I'm currently taking a closer look on my character and have been thinking about these 2 glyphs.
Currently i use Divinity because i LoH almost every fight and that nets some sick mana regen if i'm im trouble of running oom.
But on tomorrows reset i hope to get my 4pc complete and was thinking if Illumination isn't better to use since i will Holy Shock more often?

Any Holy Paladin that tested this can give me some insight on whats the best for mana regen with and without 4pc?

Thanks.

[Xs]

Its not worth it even assuming perfect cast conditions for Holy Shock, you'd need to have 450 poorly itemised blue gear to make it even slightly worth it

[dennisdkramer]

Its not worth it even assuming perfect cast conditions for Holy Shock, you'd need to have 450 poorly itemised blue gear to make it even slightly worth it

If you use EF (which everybody does) you can't melee for mana so illumination is 1% mana per crit vs 10% mana per fight from LoH. This really has nothing to do with gear; in terms of mana regen illumination is hands-down better.

[Xs]

If you use EF (which everybody does) you can't melee for mana so illumination is 1% mana per crit vs 10% mana per fight from LoH. This really has nothing to do with gear; in terms of mana regen illumination is hands-down better.

its not anything close to that as an argument, without even factoring in Divinity, you're losing mana just by having the glyph itself because of the 10% spirit regen reduction

[Dubalicious]

If you use EF (which everybody does) you can't melee for mana so illumination is 1% mana per crit vs 10% mana per fight from LoH. This really has nothing to do with gear; in terms of mana regen illumination is hands-down better.

There's always a little misunderstanding about the Glyph of Illumination. It would be a GREAT glyph if the tooltip stopped at the "good" part (the only part you're referencing here). Unfortunately, the glyph also causes you to lose 10% if your spirit regen from your passive "Holy Insight" which likely averages out to anywhere from a 1200-1600 MP5 loss (for me it's right at 1,550 mp5 lost *just from equipping the glyph*)


So it actually DOES have everything to do with gear, because the more spirit you HAVE the more you effectively LOSE by equipping the glyph. In terms of mana-regen *Glyph of Illumination is a NET LOSS* without considering any other options. In other words, you would be better off with no glyph at all in that slot.

[Haxx0rcist]

There's always a little misunderstanding about the Glyph of Illumination. It would be a GREAT glyph if the tooltip stopped at the "good" part (the only part you're referencing here). Unfortunately, the glyph also causes you to lose 10% if your spirit regen from your passive "Holy Insight" which likely averages out to anywhere from a 1200-1600 MP5 loss (for me it's right at 1,550 mp5 lost *just from equipping the glyph*)


So it actually DOES have everything to do with gear, because the more spirit you HAVE the more you effectively LOSE by equipping the glyph. In terms of mana-regen *Glyph of Illumination is a NET LOSS* without considering any other options. In other words, you would be better off with no glyph at all in that slot.

So you are saying neither glyph is worth it? Any other recommendation then? My other glyphs are Divine Plea and Light of Dawn (since i raid 10man).

[pavulon]

you can find more about glyph of illumination here:
http://joeego.wordpress.com/2012/07/...adins-options/

[Medario]

[/COLOR]

you can find more about glyph of illumination here:
http://joeego.wordpress.com/2012/07/...adins-options/

Thta was the site I was looking for again, couldn´t remember it.

[Dubalicious]

So you are saying neither glyph is worth it? Any other recommendation then? My other glyphs are Divine Plea and Light of Dawn (since i raid 10man).

My apologies for being unclear - I was only addressing the Glyph of Illumination. Glyph of Divinity is still a great glyph. I typically use it along with Protector of the Innocent, Divine Protection (if relevant for the encounter), and FoL glyph. For 10 mans, I would imagine LoD would be a solid choice as well.

[JoeEgo]

If you use EF (which everybody does) you can't melee for mana so illumination is 1% mana per crit vs 10% mana per fight from LoH. This really has nothing to do with gear; in terms of mana regen illumination is hands-down better.

I wanted to chime in and this seemed like the best place, if only to note this comment is disturbingly senseless.

1) Not everyone uses EF. SS is a fine choice and is better in several circumstances.

2) EF has nothing to do with melee'ing for mana. Meleeing for mana is always a good choice when the fight mechanics permit.

3) As noted by others, the Glyph of Illumination has a down side. It involves a trade-off. Nearly every glyph does.

As noted: the glyph is an increasingly bad choice as your Spirit increases. I imagine there is a build (somewhat like 4pc PvP/EF) using 4pc t14, high Crit, Glyph of Illumination, EF, and maybe heavy CS usage which will look amazing on meters. I just don't see the point to severely changing my play style just to look good on meters, especially when the build requires a specific tier bonus and babysitting my Shock cooldown and EF placement. Meanwhile a Mistweaver is naturally built for raid healing and a Holy Priest will eat your lunch just by changing Chakra.

At the end of the day I enjoy playing my paladin and I enjoy tank/spot and burst healing. While I appreciate the changes that have made me a more viable raid healer, I'll leave that role to the players who enjoy it (or enjoy meter chasing) and who are almost always playing a different class better suited for it.

To Haxx0rcist: Divinity is a fine choice unless you need your LoH more often. Divine Plea is fine if you don't mind having to stand still for 5 seconds. Beacon of Light is a good default option. Flash of Light is also a good default, improving your performance for the rare times you use it. Divine Protection is situational and should probably be swapped relatively frequently between fights.

[Xs]

2) EF has nothing to do with melee'ing for mana. Meleeing for mana is always a good choice when the fight mechanics permit.

EF has everything to do with Melee, every tick resets your swing timer to 1 second so with more than 2 EFs up its impossible to melee, and with regards to the topic at hand, the trade off Divinity has over Illumination, is almost nullified by Unbreakable Spirit, and on most fights where you need to swap that talent, you don't need to double LoH for the mana anyway

[Freia]

If you use EF (which everybody does) you can't melee for mana so illumination is 1% mana per crit vs 10% mana per fight from LoH. This really has nothing to do with gear; in terms of mana regen illumination is hands-down better.

Glyph of Illumination decreases the effectiveness of Holy Insight, not the effectiveness of Seal of Insight.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=112859

[Dubalicious]

EF has everything to do with Melee, every tick resets your swing timer to 1 second so with more than 2 EFs up its impossible to melee

This would be a bug, one that I personally have never experienced (and am not currently experiencing)

To be clear, you are saying that every time an EF casted by you ticks on it's target, it resets your swing timer to 1 seconds?

[monikasun88]

That bug was fixed. Happened around the end of November with 5.1.

Also, I did some math and if you have around 11-12K spirit with a reasonable amount of crit ~10-15% you need to basically holy shock on cooldown (15 per minute with the pve 4 set) to gain a miniscule amount of benefit. Also for me, since most fights are less than 10 minutes, I usually glyph divinity. (Since most paly glyphs are fail.)

[Dubalicious]

Before my last post I had tested the "melee reset when EF ticks" on dummies and had no evidence of a reset. Just now I decided to test it in a dungeon and it did in fact make it so I was unable to melee. I have had occasions where my melee reset has felt really odd, but could never pinpoint the issue. This certainly could be what I was experiencing. I don't really employ EF blanketing in our 25 mans so its likely others have probably encountered this much more than I have. Very odd.

[Xs]

This would be a bug, one that I personally have never experienced (and am not currently experiencing)

To be clear, you are saying that every time an EF casted by you ticks on it's target, it resets your swing timer to 1 seconds?

Its been a bug since launch which wasn't fixed with 5.1 and hasn't had any confirmation or acknowledgement surrounding it.

The only place I generally 'test' it each week is on Elegon and so far this week it was still bugged as far as I could tell, I've not tested it on dummies as.. well I don't really care enough, but the 'bug statement' I posted earlier is exactly as it happens, EF ticks swing timer resets, so with normal haste values 2 is enough to completely void your swing timer, with luck you can get the odd one through but yeah, its a horrible bug but not something that's game breaking as the regen is minimal.

[dennisdkramer]

apologies, i was confusing holy insight with mana regenerating from meleeing with seal of insight, my mistake. I'll address a few points made here though..

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 02:43 AM ----------

I wanted to chime in and this seemed like the best place, if only to note this comment is disturbingly senseless.

1) Not everyone uses EF. SS is a fine choice and is better in several circumstances.

While technically true, the utility and power of EF makes it a no-brainer for most people. SS vs EF in practice is a discussion for its own thread though. Off the top of my head Lei Shi seems like a great fight for SS so I definitely agree that it has its place in raids.

2) EF has nothing to do with melee'ing for mana. Meleeing for mana is always a good choice when the fight mechanics permit.

If you have EF out (I think 2 causes this but I've read 3) you wont be able to melee attack at all
edit:looks like others already addressed this but w/e :P

Beacon of Light is a good default option.

Beacon Glyph is situational but insanely useful when you do use it. I swap it around to heal during the spark phase of elegon so I can be ridiculously mana efficient since all the damage is predictable and to multiple targets. Even on the fights where you dont particularly NEED it off the GCD, its still a nice quality of life improvement.