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  1. #1

    5.1 changes, we asked for balanced, not broken.

    The 5.1 patch brought a lot of people various changes to their class and I just feel as though this has actually made some classes more "broken" than it has achieved "balance".

    The biggest example is "Chaos Wave" nerf. Before you start, I do play a warlock and I AGREE it was extremely powerful and was doing a little too much burst when you consider the fact you can do it 2 times and if they both crit people would basically being 100%-0%.

    However, nerfing the damage by 33% is not the answer to that particular problem. See warlocks had stupid burst but outside of that burst they were TERRIBLE and the burst we had was a way to compensate for that.
    Now we have our burst reduced so that it is quite piss weak to be fairly honest but 0 compensation for our damage outside of our burst. This is where things get broken instead of being fixed.
    I just want equality in pvp so it comes down to skill more so then class balance (don't confuse this with classes strengths and weaknesses). Warlock burst was stupid 150k chaos waves + 150k chaos waves, were plain silly, but now I am hitting for 70k crits if lucky. Having to use a 2 min trinket, 2 min CD, build up 400-500 demonic fury (with shit damage whilst building it) and get them down 40-50% if I am extremely lucky, they have no defensives up AND they both crit?

    The equality aspect is other classes can still pull much more "reliable burst" much more often and have much more "sustained" damage outside their bursting period. Deep freeze combos with frostbombs, ffb procs and ice lances can still get you for 200k in the combo, and outside of that they still have decent damage on top of amazing control.

    How is a mage balanced, but a warlock takes these nerfs and is meant to be balanced as well. Demo. Pop all CDS, hope for double crits and still do less damage then a Frostbomb + ffb proc + 1 ice lance damage. Destro , poor damage, use chaos bolt gets los'd or interrupted as it should, even with cds up 90k-100k crits.... oh what do you know... Frostbomb still does more damage. Affliction... well unless you wanna do most damage done without actually killing anyone, this is the spec for you!

    How did that nerf, like many other nerfs that have or will occur, meant to balance a class, when all it does is break it. Sure something might be OP but you have to adjust it so that you solve the problem. The problem was burst, our damage wasn't the issue, but the burst. So fix the burst compensate the damage in our sustained areas. We now need a lottery to get off an assault that can be done by a mage every 30 seconds. balance at its finest!




    Are any other classes suffering from a nerf (that you know was required) but then the nerf was done in such a way that it made the class more broken then actually just solving the required issue, I am interested!

  2. #2
    High Overlord
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    people will always complain about everything

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by tyran View Post
    people will always complain about everything
    I realise it seems like this but I have given clear examples of how this is working, why it was needed but implemented wrong, so I would appreciate a more though-out and respectful response.

    I didn't say "OMFG NERFS, WTF BLIZZ" so I don't expect a response as though I did.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Droodeffekt View Post
    Warlocks had stupid burst but outside of that burst they were TERRIBLE and the burst we had was a way to compensate for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Droodeffekt View Post
    Now we have our burst reduced so that it is quite piss weak to be fairly honest but 0 compensation for our damage outside of our burst.
    Quote Originally Posted by Droodeffekt View Post
    I just want equality in pvp
    I'm playing an Enh / Ele Shaman and wish everybody else could see these quotes the way I see them.
    Even with one of your abilities is nerfed by 1/3, you are still on top of the food chain.

    You have almost everything, plus the dev's attention with MoP.
    You just received your overhaul and even your glyphs are better than many class abilities. You are even getting yourself Warlock-only content in 5.2, you get many blue posts and explainations on changes.

    Yes, you should have 0 compensation for the nerf, that's what a nerf is.
    It was OP and even with it tuned, you are still strong enough to compete.

    And in b4; yes I have an affli / demon warlock too. Chaos Wave should have been nerfed ages ago.

  5. #5
    Perhaps making chaos wave do the same damage, but 33% of it was a dot over 15 seconds or something.

    That would be more balanced imo. Damage is the same, and it feels locky with a dot, but the burst is toned down.

  6. #6
    At least you admitted it was dumb. People always think about arena but imagine chasing a flag carrier and all of the sudden you are dead? That's the state of the game right now and that's what chaos wave did. You couldn't stop it in randoms, and if you did, then you got hit by the skilled mage, or shaman popped ascendance, or the hunter turned red, or the shadow priest procced double mind-spike and a mind blast, or the warrior went rawr, etc.

    These kinds of stupid abilities even if they require ramp up time have to be cleaned up. Sorry it had to be you this time but imagine how shaman feel at the moment. Blizzard literally pancaked resto and it's not like the other two specs were rockin' the gaming universe.

    There will be more to come, unfortunately, at the speed Blizzard moves it'll all get balanced just in time for the next expansion which will screw it all up again.

  7. #7
    Blizzard has a track record of going full retard and nerfing everything except what needs nerfing and/or not compensating for nerfs.

    Nerfing BM was valid, leaving MM and SV in the dust is not.
    Nerfing Demo was valid, leaving destro and aff in the dust is not.
    Nerfing random shit but not CD stacking for warriors just.../facepalm.
    Nerfing random shit but not frost bomb for mages just.../facepalm.
    Leaving rogues behind and flat out lying to them about a mobility buff is also stupidity.

    Inb4 "MAGES NOT VIABLE WITHOUT FROST BOMB". You are literally the only class in the game that has ever had 3 competitive specs consecutively for both pve and pvp. Having two viable specs won't hurt you. Hell, having ONE viable spec like pretty much every other pure dps class out there won't hurt either.

    Some other things:
    Flat out lying about addressing concerns with more CC.
    Flat out lying about toning down burst.
    Flat out lying about making heals no longer 10%-100% targets.
    Flat out failing at overhauling the dispel system by leaving shitty mechanics like purge and spell steal untouched.
    Not addressing the obvious OPness of CC in lieu of a terribly thought out dispel nerf.

    I swear, it's like a bunch of monkeys are whacking their dicks on keyboards and then calling it "pvp balance".
    Last edited by Flaks; 2012-12-05 at 05:55 AM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithgroth View Post
    I'm playing an Enh / Ele Shaman and wish everybody else could see these quotes the way I see them.
    Even with one of your abilities is nerfed by 1/3, you are still on top of the food chain.

    You have almost everything, plus the dev's attention with MoP.
    You just received your overhaul and even your glyphs are better than many class abilities. You are even getting yourself Warlock-only content in 5.2, you get many blue posts and explainations on changes.

    Yes, you should have 0 compensation for the nerf, that's what a nerf is.
    It was OP and even with it tuned, you are still strong enough to compete.

    And in b4; yes I have an affli / demon warlock too. Chaos Wave should have been nerfed ages ago.
    We are hardly strong enough to compete. I don't know if you have tested the changed chaos wave / demo damage in since the patch but I would not say where we are now is "still strong enough to compete". Requiring all our cds and double crits to do 50% maybe 60% if lucky of someone's hp is not "strong". The problem is, and this seems to have gone over your head, that with the nerf we have terrible burst and terrible damage outside of where our once "OP" burst was. The only time chaos wave was OP in 5.0 is when it double crit with all cds up which was bad rng, but still shouldn't be that powerful. Now it doesnt kill people at all and outside of it we are weak as all hell. That is the definition of something being broken in this particular environment. Our burst is average at best and outside of burst we are horrible. Now all we bring is 2 cc's that share DR and healthstones?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 06:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by walkingtall View Post
    At least you admitted it was dumb. People always think about arena but imagine chasing a flag carrier and all of the sudden you are dead? That's the state of the game right now and that's what chaos wave did. You couldn't stop it in randoms, and if you did, then you got hit by the skilled mage, or shaman popped ascendance, or the hunter turned red, or the shadow priest procced double mind-spike and a mind blast, or the warrior went rawr, etc.

    These kinds of stupid abilities even if they require ramp up time have to be cleaned up. Sorry it had to be you this time but imagine how shaman feel at the moment. Blizzard literally pancaked resto and it's not like the other two specs were rockin' the gaming universe.

    There will be more to come, unfortunately, at the speed Blizzard moves it'll all get balanced just in time for the next expansion which will screw it all up again.
    I completely agree, it was stupid. But it was all we (as Warlocks) had going for us. Without this (which should of been put into balanced, not nerfed into oblivion) we are really weak. How can a warlock compete with such powerhouses such as mages, when everything we can do, a mage can do better now?

  9. #9
    Focused Will returning made disc so hopeful, and then they nerfed Guise so it can't be used in CC. My class is therefore in worse shape than it was before the patch that was supposed to make us viable again.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal sonololo's Avatar
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    why it reminds me about immolate+chaosbolt+conflagration in early wotlk?...

  11. #11
    When I saw this thread title, I said to myself: Warlock complaining about chaos wave nerf.

    I opened it up and lo, I was correct.

    Also when you get nerfed, you don't GET compensated in some other area. That is kind of the point.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sonololo View Post
    why it reminds me about immolate+chaosbolt+conflagration in early wotlk?...
    Pffft Immolate -> Seduce partway through cast -> Conflag before seduce - > trinket soulfire NF/Conflag or 7/7/37 ftw.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithgroth View Post
    I'm playing an Enh / Ele Shaman and wish everybody else could see these quotes the way I see them.
    Even with one of your abilities is nerfed by 1/3, you are still on top of the food chain.
    Yeah but comparing every class in PVP to Enh/Ele Shamans is like constantly saying "it could be worse" about every issue in America by comparing it to Somalia.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I swear, it's like a bunch of monkeys are whacking their dicks on keyboards and then calling it "pvp balance".
    Please do not insult monkeys, they can make a more balanced pvp environment

  15. #15
    I love how people talk about being TERRIBLE, nerfed to oblivion, and really weak when they're still better than a lot of the other class/specs.

  16. #16
    well you got nerfed to to rogue lvl, like they said they would do with all( that would mean hunters and locks) blizz wont do anything to their fav mages, war, druids and other hybrids and they will keep on lying to rogues about buff they will get in the next patch only to see no changes, or minor stuff wich dosnt help, and when the next expansion comes, then they get the fixes

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    When I saw this thread title, I said to myself: Warlock complaining about chaos wave nerf.

    I opened it up and lo, I was correct.

    Also when you get nerfed, you don't GET compensated in some other area. That is kind of the point.
    Well high five you guessing correctly (don't know what else to say to that honestly lol).

    On the last part, I don't know if your statement is meant to be said in a smart ass way, but just because you get a nerf does not mean you dont compensate other areas TO ACHIEVE BALANCE.

    We needed the NERF to chaos wave burst, but that was our ONLY strong point, so they needed to compensate the SEVERITY that they have nerfed chaos wave burst by. This would stop the burst being out of control but still keep us competitive against other classes in arena. The OVERALL EFFECT would still be a nerf on the class though.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyran View Post
    people will always complain about everything
    I blame Blizzard but i dont blame the c : o that takes care of my TV. I dont even blame Steam.
    Last edited by naturetauren; 2012-12-05 at 09:22 AM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Droodeffekt View Post
    We are hardly strong enough to compete. I don't know if you have tested the changed chaos wave / demo damage in since the patch but I would not say where we are now is "still strong enough to compete". Requiring all our cds and double crits to do 50% maybe 60% if lucky of someone's hp is not "strong". The problem is, and this seems to have gone over your head, that with the nerf we have terrible burst and terrible damage outside of where our once "OP" burst was. The only time chaos wave was OP in 5.0 is when it double crit with all cds up which was bad rng, but still shouldn't be that powerful. Now it doesnt kill people at all and outside of it we are weak as all hell. That is the definition of something being broken in this particular environment. Our burst is average at best and outside of burst we are horrible. Now all we bring is 2 cc's that share DR and healthstones?
    So according to your information you are hitting 50%, maybe 60% now.
    Pre-nerf you were going up to roughly 75%-80%.

    Just because your nuke doesn't almost one-shot people anymore, how come you became too weak? Is this what PvP about? Building up one skill to one shot people. Or are you too weak because somehow there are no more 1v3 demon warlock videos anymore?

    You don't have terrible burst.
    You don't have terrible damage outside of where your "OP" burst was.
    You just can't almost one-shot people anymore, surprisingly!

    And please no, now all that you bring is not 2 cc's that share DR (fear and stun) and healthstones. If you seriously think that, it's such a spoiled and misleading point of view.

    In addition to all this, it's not even a 100% nerf, resource needed to build skill is reduced by 33% as well. I can't believe you are whining about it by just saying "we are too weak".

    Quote Originally Posted by Droodeffekt View Post
    I completely agree, it was stupid. But it was all we (as Warlocks) had going for us. Without this (which should of been put into balanced, not nerfed into oblivion) we are really weak. How can a warlock compete with such powerhouses such as mages, when everything we can do, a mage can do better now?
    Stop comparing yourself to mages.
    And still no, a stupid one-shotting ability was not all you had going for you. If so, you have other issues than this nerf.

    Sorry, I just have no sympathy for "QQ I can't one-shot people anymore and win 1v3" arguements.

  20. #20
    It's great how they made a decent aoe hitting PvE ability weaker due to fucking pvp bullshit again.

    Seperate that fucking bullshit already.
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