Frostbomb lol :p

**Fozuum** · 2012-12-05, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Telila

Getting walked over by Mages in crafted PvP gear is soooooo much fun

/sarcasm-off

Don't worry you will have the same fun with the fully upgraded honor set and a handfull of 483 (my equip atm).

But I guess it's all OK. I mean frostbomb has a 10s cooldown (reduced by haste), a 1.5 cast time and costs a whooping 1.3% base mana. On top of that you have to use another spell to trigger it instantly.

**Terahertz** · 2012-12-05, 02:33 PM

It's funny though how frost bomb is like 100000000x better than the other two talent choices in that tier. Would be pretty simple to just nerf the freaking talent so it's on par with the other talent choices.

**peggleftw** · 2012-12-05, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Bakis

Mage pvp ilvl 468.
I got 60% res.

105k 85k

I mean, his gear is total shit and my gear is decent,far from good but a frostbomb smack me for 200k in two ticks

i got 56% resi on my druid, got hit for 120k by a warr last night, was fun. balance is good.

**naturetauren** · 2012-12-05, 03:09 PM

90k mortal strike finisher on my ret pally almost fully pvp geared except one trinket and the weapon. Havent met many frost mages yet. Warriors are still globalling me while i just crit them like 10k.

**asb** · 2012-12-05, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bogdan

That is basically what you said, frost mage damage is fine, Demo Warlock damage was/is (you prolly think Demo is still OP, I guess), Warlocks are OP compared to mages, just because you haven't said it exactly with that words that doesn't mean that's not what you implied by defending frostbomb.

No, I said mage burst is counterable. It is. You responded with something to the effect of oh i guess i'll just trinket every 30 seconds then i forgot i could do that. And I honestly have no idea whether demo is overpowered still or not, but if you'd notice I mentioned that it's probably a non-issue at this point anyway.

Originally Posted by Bogdan

Like there is obvious Demo was really strong before 5.1 and it needed some tweaks, but defending frost mages in this manner is... beyond silly, you gave the word biased a new definition... No one in their right mind can actually think mages are OK in their current state....

Chaos Wave was "guaranteed kill" while frostbomb is "non-threatening damage "... LOL

You complained that frost bombs on cooldown were "decent damage," while that's not relevant at all. Full burst phases are obviously threatening if you have nothing available to defend against it. And whether mages as a whole are fine wasn't the topic--this was just about frost bomb, which I think is fine. It's a huge step up from icelance spam, which was still more counterable than demo lock burst.

Also, in what sense am I biased? I don't play a mage. I just have an opinion; bias is being in a situation that would influence that opinion.

Originally Posted by Bogdan

And what do you mean by "Warlocks aren't highly represented because the only strong warlock spec wasn't "discovered" until recently"?? Except maybe 1st week of MoP when everyone was testing every spec in lvl 90 PvP gear, every Warlock played Demo, I say 2 months is more than "recent"... Warlocks aren't that highly represented in arena because there are like 5 other specs/classes wich are 10 times more powerful than them... How can argue with REAL proof wich is the arena representation?? It's like saying that Rogues or... idk, Rets, Ferals are OP just because they can global you in a BG or something, whereas in arenas, they're basically NON-EXISTENT...

It took a lot longer than a week for people to start playing demo in PvP (or at least good players). There's obviously no documented proof of when this started happening, but I promise you it wasn't right away. Most warlocks were struggling to make destro work at that point despite its mediocrity. And you should've stopped before ferals on your list of joke specs, since they're actually amazing. They don't have high representation either, but they may well be the best melee in the game. Representation can be indicative of strength but they don't always directly correlate.

Originally Posted by Bogdan

Really now, Demo was over the top, it got obliterated, everyone saw this one coming sooner or later, Warlocks included, but debating that frost mages aren't GODLIKE atm is absurd...

Mages are good, but again that wasn't really the discussion. Frost bomb in its own right is fine. Besides, I point-blank said in the post you quoted "I'm not denying that mages are strong, but it's not unrivaled damage that put them there."

**Thirtyrock** · 2012-12-05, 05:43 PM

It was said in the Warlock threads here that people would just find someone else to complain about until everyone was nerfed. If Frost Bomb is nerfed there will be threads about Obliterate or some such.

Burst is too high, healing is too high, but instead of addressing the issue of overall burst/healing problems people are crying about individual specs and individual abilities. They don't want to play better to compensate, they want to bitch and moan. Mage Burst can be avoided in 3s with good peels and good dispells and cd usage. IT can't be avoided if you are terrible, use your trinkets at the wrong time, refuse to dispel or use cc or defensive cooldowns. Frost bomb does around 120-150k damage in a deep freeze followed by an instant frostfire bolt for 60-100k (I'm giving BIG ranges due to the big gear gaps). So, that's about 2/3 of someone's health bar. It's not a 1 shot, but, most of the time, neither was chaos wave. It's a lot of damage, but it can be out healed if you are skilled, it can be avoided if you're skilled.

The burst is high, for almost all classes, but it can be beaten with good play. If you aren't going to try to play better then please don't complain either.

**Miko** · 2012-12-05, 05:52 PM

Skilled mages make this game un-playable. Warlocks are strong, but shouldn't be in the same debate as a Mage.. period.

**Temporary Poster** · 2012-12-05, 05:54 PM

Warlocks got nerfed. Spriests aren't that good vs. melee like warriors and dks. Hunter is lol right now with BM having its major burst cooldown being cc-able (lmao) and MM sucking epic ass. Mage is now the only choice for ranged dps pvp. I really hoped I won't have to get back to my mage but it seems GC wants me to.

**Wootylicious** · 2012-12-05, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Xolotl

your gear does not matter if you dont play the right class(es)

pretty much this atm.

**Khazaad** · 2012-12-05, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bakis

Mage pvp ilvl 468.
I got 60% res.

105k 85k

I mean, his gear is total shit and my gear is decent,far from good but a frostbomb smack me for 200k in two ticks

Frost bomb does not TICK, you either got hit by 2 frostmages, or stood there for ~8 seconds between 2 casts, not beeing healed and/or using defensive CD's.

Originally Posted by Fozuum

Just did a bg with my pally and got killed by a 122 k frost bomb crit. 61% resilience and divine protection was up (40% reduced magical damage). This would have been a 274k crit against 0 resilience. And it will get worse. Soon some people will have all pvp upgrades and start one shotting everyone.

And no, he didn't have berserker buff.

Biggest BS I've read on this forums in a while...who cares, everyone's got 40% resil baseline, an noone should discuss PvP damage when playing a toon without ATLEAST 50% PvP gear pieces on.

On a side note, yes, I play mage, and yes, the burst is good, but i get shat on by 120k obliterates, almost any warr attacks, chaos waves, chaos bolts, and dozens of other classes abbilities with 55%+ ressil, that's just how this season is (well, pretty much any expansion's 1st season).

**Kreeshak** · 2012-12-05, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by asb

No, I said mage burst is counterable. It is. You responded with something to the effect of oh i guess i'll just trinket every 30 seconds then i forgot i could do that. And I honestly have no idea whether demo is overpowered still or not, but if you'd notice I mentioned that it's probably a non-issue at this point anyway.

You complained that frost bombs on cooldown were "decent damage," while that's not relevant at all. Full burst phases are obviously threatening if you have nothing available to defend against it. And whether mages as a whole are fine wasn't the topic--this was just about frost bomb, which I think is fine. It's a huge step up from icelance spam, which was still more counterable than demo lock burst.

Also, in what sense am I biased? I don't play a mage. I just have an opinion; bias is being in a situation that would influence that opinion.

It took a lot longer than a week for people to start playing demo in PvP (or at least good players). There's obviously no documented proof of when this started happening, but I promise you it wasn't right away. Most warlocks were struggling to make destro work at that point despite its mediocrity. And you should've stopped before ferals on your list of joke specs, since they're actually amazing. They don't have high representation either, but they may well be the best melee in the game. Representation can be indicative of strength but they don't always directly correlate.

Mages are good, but again that wasn't really the discussion. Frost bomb in its own right is fine. Besides, I point-blank said in the post you quoted "I'm not denying that mages are strong, but it's not unrivaled damage that put them there."

Thats like a warrior saying gag order, cooldown stacking, avatar freedom on their own are fine.

If frost bomb is fine - why nobody ever picks the other two talents?

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 08:12 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Khazaad

Frost bomb does not TICK, you either got hit by 2 frostmages, or stood there for ~8 seconds between 2 casts, not beeing healed and/or using defensive CD's.

Biggest BS I've read on this forums in a while...who cares, everyone's got 40% resil baseline, an noone should discuss PvP damage when playing a toon without ATLEAST 50% PvP gear pieces on.

On a side note, yes, I play mage, and yes, the burst is good, but i get shat on by 120k obliterates, almost any warr attacks, chaos waves, chaos bolts, and dozens of other classes abbilities with 55%+ ressil, that's just how this season is (well, pretty much any expansion's 1st season).

On every 3s I play against a mage I am spending half the game in roots. Every time I pop my cooldowns I am polyed or the mage sits inside a ring of frost. Against mages I do half the damage I do against ANY other comp. And its not possible to peel a mage because he blinks my stuns and if I interrupt frost bomb he will be casting poly. If I interrupt poly he will cast frost bombs.

If for any reason I decide to leave the mage alone - so I dont get rooted - my healer(s) (ive tried multiple) die in a deep freeze.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 08:13 PM ----------

Originally Posted by naturetauren

90k mortal strike finisher on my ret pally almost fully pvp geared except one trinket and the weapon. Havent met many frost mages yet. Warriors are still globalling me while i just crit them like 10k.

mages are worse atm. the more you play the sooner you will find out.

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